Wednesday 24th October 2007

Diesel Does It For Hot Honda

A Type-R that runs on the black stuff?

---

He'd probably be a bit faster with a diesel

While many European manufacturers have been quick to lead the charge into performance diesel territory, the Japanese domestics have been a little slow to respond thanks to that particular nation’s petrol-powered preferences.

However, we have it on good authority that Honda is seeking to redress the balance, and take the fight to the best of Europe’s diesel-powered hot hatches.

While the current Civic shares the 2.2-litre diesel with its larger Accord stablemate, the engine’s 138bhp and 251lb-ft lag behind the 168bhp/258lb-ft of the Golf GT and Renaultsport Megane dCI’s 173bhp/265lb-ft outputs.

However, Honda has recently announced that they are developing cleaner and more powerful diesel engines for the Accord’s replacement, meaning that a revised 2.2 with more power may be headed for a Civic Type-RD sometime soon.

Power outputs currently circulating rate the engine at 180bhp and over 300lb-ft of torque, although in keeping with current Typre-R philosophy, the engine should rev relatively highly, even for an oil-burner.

[joetait]

All that torque through the front wheels - that'll keep you best friends with your local tyre dealer then. (assuming the torque steer doesnt kill you first!)

[havoc]

Nah...it'll have nannying electronics to stop you making any progress in the damp or wet...

Nice idea...but I wouldn't want it as a 2nd-hand proposition - modern high-output diesels are proving a tad 'variable'...and more thirsty for oil than a VTEC!

[Turbobanana]

"the engine should rev relatively highly, even for an oil-burner."

...that'll be 4000 rpm, then?

[RDE]

I always thought that engine would go well in a civic. I wouldn't have R badged the result though.

[Neomagic]

havoc said:

Nah...it'll have nannying electronics to stop you making any progress in the damp or wet...

Nice idea...but I wouldn't want it as a 2nd-hand proposition - modern high-output diesels are proving a tad 'variable'...and more thirsty for oil than a VTEC!

Plus the fact the diesel is actually more expensive than petrol when it’s actually cheaper to refine.

[davee7]

Hmmmmm - interesting, though Celtic Tuning can remap the current 2.2 i-CDTi Civic to 192bhp (from 138) and 321lb torque (from 251) for just £375.

[[AJ]]

davee7 said:

Hmmmmm - interesting, though Celtic Tuning can remap the current 2.2 i-CDTi Civic to 192bhp (from 138) and 321lb torque (from 251) for just £375.

Perhaps so, but the emissions would probably go through the roof. Honda probably wouldn't be able to pass EU regs putting that engine out from factory like that.

[wab172uk]

See Jensons found a quicker car to drive than that pile of sh*te he's been driving all year.

[off_again]

I used to have one of the Accord 2.2 TD's as a company car a while ago. It was one of the first around and was absolutely corking. They have pretty much re-invented the diesel engine and most manufacturers are catching up! Ok, its down on power a little, but its a rev'y engine which really doesn't show up its origins. I guess only the new BMW 2.0 TD is close these days....

The engine itself will rev around to 5500 RPM and the delivery is very smooth and progressive. None of this massive hit of torque you get with the VAG diesels and certainly not trashy like the Ford ones. Smooth and keen to rev, pretty much answers all of the problems that normal diesels have. I was very impressed and you would really not be able to tell it was a diesel.

The same engine in the Civic was good (please note that its a very light engine, no iron block here). Boost the power and it will be a corker - though it might change the character of the engine, I can only assume that its fantastic. Oh, and Honda engineered the engine to be EU4 and EU5. So I doubt that emissions will be a problem. I am only surprised that its taken this long to boost the power, especially since other manufacturers have been creeping up theirs.

Bring it on is what I say - you might be surprised....

[cowellsj]

There are plenty of people after fast economical diesels, i'm sure they'll sell loads.

[Mr Whippy]

Interesting, but I wonder how many people will want a hardcore diesel. It kind of doesn't make sense. I want intimate control and response but then want a slow revving, slower response diesel engine behind it all, with not THAT much outright power to weight.

Surely it's not going to be anything Type-R at all.

Another 'sellout' UK spec Type R?

It'll either have low gearing and 'feel' really quick in-gear vs petrol rivals, or it'll have longer gearing and feel sluggish off the line, and then it'll show that it's not really much quicker than any other decent 180bhp 1250kg car.

Won't argue with the economy benefits though

Dave

[classiccooper]

Let's not forget though that the std diesel Civic is no slouch with a 0-60 IRO 8.5s.

Edited by classiccooper on Wednesday 24th October 12:52

[Witchfinder]

cowellsj said:

There are plenty of people after fast economical diesels, i'm sure they'll sell loads.

Precisely - people buy diesels for fuel economy. There are plenty of people who would love to drive something exciting but can't afford to put petrol in it, or can't afford the company car tax.

[havoc]

It'll be aimed at company car drivers...and it'll do well.

[bobberz]

Wow, a civic with TORQUE!!?? With 300 lb/ft and its weight theoretically it should be quick off the line... if it can get any traction.

[Mr Whippy]

bobberz said:

Wow, a civic with TORQUE!!?? With 300 lb/ft and its weight theoretically it should be quick off the line... if it can get any traction.

Yep, BIG torque at the engine, and chances are it'll have short gears and big torque at the wheels.

So 1,2 will be spinnage and TCS doing alot of work, and then 3,4,5 will be brisk mid-range gears, and hopefully it'll have a cruising 6th.

Should make a good 'all-rounder'...

Dave

[eddy_hyde]

Mr Whippy said:

Interesting, but I wonder how many people will want a hardcore diesel. It kind of doesn't make sense. I want intimate control and response but then want a slow revving, slower response diesel engine behind it all, with not THAT much outright power to weight.

I want a hardcore diesel, well maybe not the full on suspension, but proper seats, decent brakes and suspension and great steering would all be nice, as well as a <8s 0-60, and ideally an LSD like the Alfa Q2's

Would definately by the Civic RD anyway

[VladD]

If I had to go diesel, I'd go for the new sporty Nissan. The Laurel nRD.

[Mr Whippy]

eddy_hyde said:

Mr Whippy said:

Interesting, but I wonder how many people will want a hardcore diesel. It kind of doesn't make sense. I want intimate control and response but then want a slow revving, slower response diesel engine behind it all, with not THAT much outright power to weight.

I want a hardcore diesel, well maybe not the full on suspension, but proper seats, decent brakes and suspension and great steering would all be nice, as well as a <8s 0-60, and ideally an LSD like the Alfa Q2's

Would definately by the Civic RD anyway

Yep, I agree. Thats kinda what my 306 Hdi has become with all the best GTi bits like brakes, seats etc... and more power of course.

It's fine by me, just as long as they don't let the 'Type R' badge get anywhere near it

Dave

[shouldbenicholas]

Just ordered the 2.2 Diesel Type S as it's the most fun company car I can get without losing limbs to pay companmy car tax. Loved it on test drive for a few days, and would love to see the Type R make it, although likewise I'm not sure about attaching the 'R' unless it's truly worthy.