RE: Front Wheel Drive Jag
Wednesday 12th December 2001
Front Wheel Drive Jag
Good value or brand dilution?
Discussion
Dave H. has hit the nail right on the head: if the (sole) point is to sell more and more cars, then why not push fake Jags? Mercedes has definately cut a lot of corners in the last decade, in the pursuit of wider markets - to the detriment of the cars! In this case,Ford has a particularly dicey situation on their hands: if sales of stinking SUVs ever collapse, they're instantly deep in the red, so pimping their prestige brands starts to look more and more sensible...
Wouldn't they have been better off working on a really clean diesel engine with decent power similar to the new Golf PDI 150 and Peugeot Coupe that would have tied the "company car" market up much better and would have surely made it the "reps car of choice" Ok maybe that would dilute the brand but bigger sales mean more profits means more to spend on development means better cars. Of course this only works it properly managed !!!
I think its a good move by Jag.
They did a 2.4 in the 50's so small lumps are not new to the marque.
It will allow them to compete with BMW with their paltry 1.8 that no one maons about.
80-90% of 2wd cars are FWD these days? (off the top of my head)
Ford may lose 'Ghia' sales to this car, but my guess is they hope to pinch those little engined Merc, Audi and BMW sales.
They did a 2.4 in the 50's so small lumps are not new to the marque.
It will allow them to compete with BMW with their paltry 1.8 that no one maons about.
80-90% of 2wd cars are FWD these days? (off the top of my head)
Ford may lose 'Ghia' sales to this car, but my guess is they hope to pinch those little engined Merc, Audi and BMW sales.
If Ford want Jaguar to stay as a premium performance brand then they should concentrate upon producing performance models not a weak and weedy 2 litre - they already have a couple of those with the mundane and the vulva.
Come on, get something more powerful than the current 3.0 X-type out and I would consider buying it! (well maybe)
Roadpounder
Come on, get something more powerful than the current 3.0 X-type out and I would consider buying it! (well maybe)
Roadpounder
*** Warning!! provocative statement following ****
"Please can someone explain the bias towards RWD cars? - a well designed, and well driven FWD will inevitably run circles round a RWD car..."
Justification:
Now before you jump down me throat, I would like to point out that when you start spending serious money, then you get serious toys, but for Joe Public, FWD is a more cost effective means of going faster & safer.
You may not like that statement, and you may disagree wildly, but
1) not everyone can afford top notch RWD sportscar
2) not everyone is as skilled as PH readers
3) you can get good-ish handling FWD cars, that everyone can afford
4) the "good-ish" handling FWD car is a lot less likely to end up in a ditch than a really nice RWD. (again, driven by Joe Public).
So why slag off FWD ? if it's a pedigree car, then surely it doesn't matter which end is driven?
Go on, argue with me, you know you want to !!
Carl
"Please can someone explain the bias towards RWD cars? - a well designed, and well driven FWD will inevitably run circles round a RWD car..."
Justification:
Now before you jump down me throat, I would like to point out that when you start spending serious money, then you get serious toys, but for Joe Public, FWD is a more cost effective means of going faster & safer.
You may not like that statement, and you may disagree wildly, but
1) not everyone can afford top notch RWD sportscar
2) not everyone is as skilled as PH readers
3) you can get good-ish handling FWD cars, that everyone can afford
4) the "good-ish" handling FWD car is a lot less likely to end up in a ditch than a really nice RWD. (again, driven by Joe Public).
So why slag off FWD ? if it's a pedigree car, then surely it doesn't matter which end is driven?
Go on, argue with me, you know you want to !!
Carl
Just two weeks ago I was defending Ford, saying it wasn't stupid when it came to brand policy, no 4X4 Jag and the like.
How wrong I was....The only explanation I can think off is that it has something to do with the new company car tax regulations. Or they are short of money....
Front wheel drive bloody Jags!!!! Take a leaf from Lexus (IS200), keep supply below demand, defend residual values, boost the image. Not do a BMW and churn out as many of the ruddy things that you can, cheapening the rest of the brand. Ford have got the Mondeo for that (not that its a bad car mind), they have no excuses.
How wrong I was....The only explanation I can think off is that it has something to do with the new company car tax regulations. Or they are short of money....
Front wheel drive bloody Jags!!!! Take a leaf from Lexus (IS200), keep supply below demand, defend residual values, boost the image. Not do a BMW and churn out as many of the ruddy things that you can, cheapening the rest of the brand. Ford have got the Mondeo for that (not that its a bad car mind), they have no excuses.
For is in danger of devaluing the Jag brand to the point where the name won't work any more - and while I have no problems with front wheel drive, the AWD X-type shares enough in common with the mondeo that a FWD X-type rings the "Mondeo in a posh suit" alarm bells.
Then again, if people still think the 3-series is exclusive (its about the 4th best selling car in the world IIRC-above the Polo!) then they'll probably do OK.
Then again, if people still think the 3-series is exclusive (its about the 4th best selling car in the world IIRC-above the Polo!) then they'll probably do OK.
Absolutly right Hertsbiker, seeing as I do drive a FWD sports car (M100), that still keeps up with Elise 2 and Exige on country roads, there is a lot to be said about a well set up FWD (remember rally cars are either 4WD or FWD).
It seems to me that a few people here have a snobbish attitude to FWD without knowledge of how well they can drive. Most Jag drivers are not out for "tail out" action.
It seems to me that a few people here have a snobbish attitude to FWD without knowledge of how well they can drive. Most Jag drivers are not out for "tail out" action.
No Carl, I don't want to argue with you or anyone else! Although I dislike it, front wheel drive works perfectly well on road cars - even some quite powerful ones.
My worry here is that Ford's decision will remove Jaguar's 'cachet' (or snob appeal if you like), and there will be a lot of extremely sick X-type owners wondering why they bothered. Sad it may be, but one-upmanship is the norm these days, and I go along with mel's point that a really good diesel would have been a better choice.
Fiat produced the 130 Coupe a while back, and although FWD it got rave reviews all round. I picked one up for a song because it simply didn't sell, and I remember 'Lofty' England (Jaguar MD) remarking that it was a no-hoper because Fiat were NOT perceived to be in the luxury manufacturing sector, and woe-betide any manufacturer who strayed outwith their 'place' in the market. He was right to the extent that the Fiat failed miserably....
Opinion, I know, and perhaps old-fashioned. We will just have to wait and see!
My worry here is that Ford's decision will remove Jaguar's 'cachet' (or snob appeal if you like), and there will be a lot of extremely sick X-type owners wondering why they bothered. Sad it may be, but one-upmanship is the norm these days, and I go along with mel's point that a really good diesel would have been a better choice.
Fiat produced the 130 Coupe a while back, and although FWD it got rave reviews all round. I picked one up for a song because it simply didn't sell, and I remember 'Lofty' England (Jaguar MD) remarking that it was a no-hoper because Fiat were NOT perceived to be in the luxury manufacturing sector, and woe-betide any manufacturer who strayed outwith their 'place' in the market. He was right to the extent that the Fiat failed miserably....
Opinion, I know, and perhaps old-fashioned. We will just have to wait and see!
good point about the diesel.
Still reckon a large displacement engine is "more jaguar" than RWD !
Anyone able to tell me why a bigger engined car cost SO much more than a smaller capacity? can't be materials, can it?
Regarding the point I tried to make about driven axle - when I was an idiotic yoof, FWD saved me more times than my skill did. Had I been in a RWD motor, no doubt that I would have binned a few more cars.
Now I've allegedly "matured" a bit (laugh all you like), I find that rear wheel steering the bike is one of the most satisfying experiences - even more so than playing with the wife's BMW. I'm sure Mel would agree with this one?
C
Still reckon a large displacement engine is "more jaguar" than RWD !
Anyone able to tell me why a bigger engined car cost SO much more than a smaller capacity? can't be materials, can it?
Regarding the point I tried to make about driven axle - when I was an idiotic yoof, FWD saved me more times than my skill did. Had I been in a RWD motor, no doubt that I would have binned a few more cars.
Now I've allegedly "matured" a bit (laugh all you like), I find that rear wheel steering the bike is one of the most satisfying experiences - even more so than playing with the wife's BMW. I'm sure Mel would agree with this one?
C
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