Thursday 1st May 2008

C-Charge 'Hasn't Improved Air Quality'

New study claims air quality in London the same as before the C-Charge

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The London Congestion Charge has not improved air quality in the capital, according to a new study.

It has been found that levels of pollution in the city’s Congestion Zone has changed little before and after the charge came into force, reports the New Scientist.

The charge was introduced in 2003 and has since gone up from £5 to £8 a day, and if new proposals are successful will increase to £25 this year.

But Frank Kelly, a researcher at King’s College in London, who presented the analysis this week at a Health Effects Institute conference in Philadelphia, said there had been only a minimal change in pollutants such as smog, diesel soot, and carbon monoxide.

The results came from tests of air quality collected over two years before and after the charge was introduced.

Now Kelly plans to investigate whether the new low emissions zone around London will improve air quality.

‘If you can demonstrate a health benefit, then you would imagine the public would be more enthusiastic for a scheme where they would have to dip into their pockets every day,’ he added.

TfL argues that congestion charging has cut emissions of nitrogen oxides by 8% and particulate matter created by diesel engines by 15%.

‘A number of factors mean these do not necessarily feed through to observable improvements in air quality, including the chemical reactions that occur in the atmosphere, the import of pollution from other areas, and the weather itself,’ a spokesman told New Scientist.

[cowellsj]

"TfL argues that congestion charging has cut emissions of nitrogen oxides by 8% and particulate matter created by diesel engines by 15%".

Is this because cars are getting more efficient and cars in general produce less of these emissions now?

So if you looked at Oxford or Birmingham would you find that their figures had dropped in the same way?

Tfl can't take credit for the work of car manufacturers to make their products cleaner and more efficient?

As far as I can see, many of the people who went into London still go in by car and the only significant change is that they now pay a lot more for the priviledge.

[dougc]

I'm still staggered that they are allowed to continue calling it 'Congestion' charging when the emphasis has clearly moved to 'shaft anyone with a car we don't approve of'

[Mr Whippy]

NOx and particulates are in the Euro IV and V initiatives.

TfL can't really claim that they made them go down with a congestion charge when they went down due to just modern cars being cleaner

Dave

[Skipppy]

A congestion charge that hasn't changed the levels of congestion and road tax banded by CO2 emmissions that's raised 132% extra revenue and cut CO2 levels by 1%.


Totally fking robbing bd waste of space these s in government are.

[hilly10]

When is everybody gonna learn the green ticket is ONE BIG CON

[MrKipling43]

Skipppy said:

A congestion charge that hasn't changed the levels of congestion and road tax banded by CO2 emmissions that's raised 132% extra revenue and cut CO2 levels by 1%.


Totally fking robbing bd waste of space these s in government are.

Actually the revenue gains are projected increases based on rising VED, they're nothing to do with the C-Charge.

I still agree with your sweary bit though

[Vagabund]

Interesting. But, as per the 'Congestion' Charge's original remit, has the average speed of London traffic increased due to the decreased (?) congestion..?

[timewatch]

dougc said:

I'm still staggered that they are allowed to continue calling it 'Congestion' charging when the emphasis has clearly moved to 'shaft anyone with a car we don't approve of'

Misrepresentation then, call trading standards and complain - they are useless anyway so no chance !

QUOTE' misrepresentation noun Law

(a false or misleading statement : persons who suffer from a realtor's misrepresentation)

TW>>>

[MrKipling43]

Incidentally, not wanting to back up TfL, but that isn't what they said at all...

Just beyond that claim of 'cut emissions of nitrogen oxides by 8% and particulate matter created by diesel engines by 15%' in the report is "much of this has been due to improvements in emissions regulations in Europe, over the same period."

Edited by MrKipling43 on Thursday 1st May 12:02

[timewatch]

The air quality in London would be dramatically improved if all the politicians stopped spouting so much
Sh!t in the Houses of Parliament !

TW>>>

[anonymous-user]

timewatch said:

The air quality in London would be dramatically improved if all the politicians stopped spouting so much
Sh!t in the Houses of Parliament !

TW>>>

Too True

[ingrowtn]

timewatch said:

The air quality in London would be dramatically improved if all the politicians stopped spouting so much
Sh!t in the Houses of Parliament !

TW>>>

The best wat to stop that is to vote them out. Send them a signal today in the local elections and the Mayoral elections.

Then mass protests.

[skymaster]

Havn't most deisel engines been fitted with a particulate filter since about 2004? Not to mention all the other improvements in engine emmissions by the motor manufacturers. TFL really dont deserve an ounce of credit for these small reductions. The C charge is a joke, I am not getting much work done today, my fingers are too tightly crossed for tonights election result... If Ken gets another term I will be SOOOO depressed (and I dont even live in London)

[crackedfinger]

I do wonder what the value is of putting stories containing clearly dubious claims, half baked statements and a common enemy in Pistonheads anymore. The threads all start to blend into the same rant (which I usually agree with). Is there not something more constructive that all this 'emotion' could be collectively put to/ support before we all turn into Victor Meldrew?

[timewatch]

skymaster said:

Havn't most deisel engines been fitted with a particulate filter since about 2004? Not to mention all the other improvements in engine emmissions by the motor manufacturers. TFL really dont deserve an ounce of credit for these small reductions. The C charge is a joke, I am not getting much work done today, my fingers are too tightly crossed for tonights election result... If Ken gets another term I will be SOOOO depressed (and I dont even live in London)

If you go to METACAFE.COM and dial in Gas savings you will see articles on Acetone & Zylene, apparently if you add
60 to 70 ml of Acetone to 10 gallons of fuel you will get a much better fuel consumption return ?

+ if you add 20-30 ml of Acetone to 10 gallons of diesel oil it will kill the black smoke from the exhaust ?

lots of uses eh !

TW>>>

[Magners P.H]

Well if it's proved that there is no/minimal impact on air quality then what does Kens argument for the Judicial Review have left to stand on?

My guess is he will argue it still has an impact on the climate. Even his case for that is starting to crumble.

Edited by Magners P.H on Thursday 1st May 13:20

[Guybrush]

Livingstone said, when the charge was introduced, that he would abandon the scheme if it wasn't a success. I wondered at the time how he defined "success", now of course it's becoming obvious why the definition was so absent. ("Success" probably means employing his cronies and penalising those nasty independent car users.)

[gezkc]

Article said:

"But Frank Kelly, a researcher at King’s College in London, who presented the analysis this week at a Health Effects Institute conference in Philadelphia, said there had been only a minimal change in pollutants such as smog, diesel soot, and carbon monoxide"

Well surprise surprise. Seeing as the Congestion charge only concerns itself with CO2 emissions (not smog, carbon monoxide or diesel soot), why would you expect air quality to have improved?

"Air quality" is not affected by CO2 (which itself is a natural component of air), so to suggest that the congestion charge should have any effect in improving air quality is, to be honest, ridiculous.

In fact, it's low CO2 emitting diesel engines that pump out the main air pollutants mentioned here, so it's hardly surprising there's been no improvement in air quality.

[Wotzname]

C-Charge 'Hasn't Improved Air Quality' New study claims air quality in London the same as before the C-Charge

Nor will it

This really boils my pi55 for the simple reason that the government is full of 5hit for the following reasons:

Firstly, when I was a nipper we had seasons - four of them, they would come and go in three monthly cycles. Fantastic. Now we get a mish-mash of spring and autumn with varying degrees of severity. During the seventies lead in petrol was the norm the ozone layer wasn't talked about and there wasn't any speed cameras or traffic calming measures on the scale we have today.

(If any of the above statements are incorrect I apologise, I'm only going on what I saw as a lad)

Now, move it on thirty years and what do we have today. Speed cameras, congestion charges, traffic calming measures no lead in petrol and the climate / weather system is fued. Brilliant - NOT. The way I see it, (IHMO) all the government policies implemented to avert a near catastrophic environmental disaster have backfired for the exact reasons listed above. Every morning in every major city across the world people crawl into work in their cars bumper to bumper travelling 5 mph - if you’re lucky. When you leave the city you encounter traffic calming measures which slow us down. Driving at between 5 and 20mph won't be economical as you're aware. But, all the time we should be driving economically to help the environment we are having the reigns pulled back by authority.

ITV news the other night had an article about economical driving and commented on the obvious - keeping tyre pressures correct, avoid harsh acceleration and drive (where possible) between 50 and 55mph for optimal fuel economy. Not any more I’m afraid. Too many rules and regulations. You can almost sense ministers laughing at Joe public as they queue in their thousands on motorways during rush hour, bank holidays and major events up and down the country - watching the pound signs in their eyes tick over as the hours tick by and wondering how best to waste the millions we have just given them.

I hate and detest the current state that we are living in, we (as a nation) have the infrastructure and people to be great again but I feel the government is strangling us all with the unnecessary taxes.

Fingers crossed the results of the local elections will be a wake up call to Labour.

<And breathe....>

[mx-tro]

TfL spokesman said:

A number of factors mean these do not necessarily feed through to observable improvements in air quality, including the chemical reactions that occur in the atmosphere, the import of pollution from other areas, and the weather itself

So if TfL concede that factors exist whereby you can't measure improvements in air quality for the CCharge area, where did they get their figures from?