Tuesday 17th June 2008

Third Support Manchester C-Charge

Poll finds majority against a congestion charge for Manchester

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Less than a third of people in Greater Manchester support a congestion charge in their city, it has emerged. An independent survey has found that 62% of people in Manchester are against the charge and 86% want a referendum, the BBC reports.

The Government has approved a two-ring system in the city charging people to enter at peak times. The pay-off is that the Government is promising to invest in public transport.

However the poll of 1,000 people has shown the scheme is deeply unpopular and residents believe they have not been consulted enough. One person surveyed said: ‘It is a big decision on an important issue for the city and everyone should have a say.’

The Conservatives have accused ministers of ‘bullying’ people into accepting the scheme, which will be the second congestion zone outside London. Theresa Villiers, shadow transport secretary, has now called for a referendum on the proposals.

A congestion charge in Manchester could pave the way for other UK cities to apply for their own charging system. The two rings around Manchester would be at the M60 and close to the city centre. The Government argues that such a scheme would cut pollution and congestion.

[FartPants]

Just another example of how out of touch this government is, and how revenue is their primary objective. Wunch of bankers...

[layabout]

I dont live in Manchester,but i can see if it happens there,it will happen in other big cities,then small cities,then towns.It's a fair comment that everyone should have a say in the area that it effects,but,when have the Government ever listened to,or cared about what people want.

[wab172uk]

Since when did this Government listen to the people of the UK?

They're not going to start now.

TAX, FINE, TAX, FINE...............

[Pingman]

Pistonheads said:

The Government argues that such a scheme would cut pollution and congestion.

Pull the other one, its got bells on!

I wish they'd just FK off with all this green Bull S:censoredT now, its starting to really wind me up. People don't still buy that crap do they?

Just another revenue generation system, and once its in two major cities, it'll go to other cities and then eventually it'll filter down to YOUR local town.

[Apache]

layabout said:

I dont live in Manchester,but i can see if it happens there,it will happen in other big cities,then small cities,then towns.It's a fair comment that everyone should have a say in the area that it effects,but,when have the Government ever listened to,or cared about what people want.

Cambridge Council are trying to push it through as we speak, it'll include Addenbrookes and the Science Parks, all of these are on the periphery of the town and Addenbrooks has just had a designated road built direct from the M11 so none should affect in town congestion, and as for congestion?......I saw the council develop it over the time I've lived there

[Magners P.H]

news source said:

Government argues that such a scheme would cut pollution

It would, but only by an insignificant amount

news source said:

and congestion

Was there not a report showing that the Kengestion charge in London made no difference?

[paulm3]

goverment s. tax... more tax.. driving.. tax.. umm... tax thats all they are intrested in. green tax my ass... well it is i suppose , more green for them

[smart51]

Magners P.H said:

Was there not a report showing that the Kengestion charge in London made no difference?

No, it said that congestion is not back up to the pre-charge levels. It did make a difference but traffic in the city has grown so much that even with the C zone, congestion levels are back to where they were a few years ago.


Of course charging for roads that are currently free, who would want that. Manchester does have a big problem with congestion and something should be done about it, though perhaps not this.

Taxing the problem won't fix it.

If we want to fix the problem of congestion, we need to so something big. Knocking down buildings and houses to make bigger roads would work but would be hugely expensive and unpopular. Public transport is so "deregulated" in Manchester that it now beyond satire. We only have 3 options, or possibly a little of all three.

1) reduce the need to travel so that our current infrastructure can cope.
2) build proper mass transit systems that work (we did it in Hong Kong and it is really good) so that demand for travel within the city is met without congestion.
3) build better roads, or simply bigger ones if you prefer, so that everyone who wants to travel can without causing congestion.

I travel in congestion. Not for fun. Not because I want to. Not because of any political reason. I have to get to work. I have to be there at a certain time of day. You can't tax me out of doing it. You either have to remove my need to travel or you have to provide capacity for met to do it. There are no other choices.

[CTE]

Do you trust anything this government (and snivel servants) do? Yet another very poorly thought out scheme.
I guess the bright young things advising government policy these days are the produce of our deteriorating education system, so we are definatley on a downward sprial.
They have all got their noses in the trough, and want to steal as much as they can before they are kicked out, and the next lot take over!
Would not be so bad if we actually saew some real improvments, not just spin.

[ec1 eex]

Story said:

The Government argues that such a scheme would cut pollution and congestion.

I'm pretty sure that we are all in agreement that the government are a bunch of liars and will say anything to push through another increase in tax.

[WombatinSwansea]

Magners P.H said:

news source said:

Government argues that such a scheme would cut pollution

It would, but only by an insignificant amount

news source said:

and congestion

Was there not a report showing that the Kengestion charge in London made no difference?

Yeah! On what grounds are the gov't making this claim? Do they have a successful scheme elsewhere to illustrate how a c-charge will improve joe public's life.....No I didn't think so.

Haven't they realised yet that the public just doesn't buy this crap any more? Surely by now they know that we know it's just another tax. Another nail for this gov't.

[Apache]

smart51 said:

No, it said that congestion is not back up to the pre-charge levels.
It did make a difference but traffic in the city has grown so much that even with the C zone, congestion levels are back to where they were a few years ago.

That's a fking lie, they want it both ways, yes the CC works but traffic levels have risen?!! how does that work then? where did all that traffic come from? has the workforce in London suddenly expnded by 20 percent?

[gopher cough]

idea number 435921 from the 'how can we bleed more money from motorist' bible.

next week, taxing people on the number of indicator flashes they use in a year (although this could prove popular amoung BMW drivers)

[mmltonge]

Magners P.H said:

Was there not a report showing that the Kengestion charge in London made no difference?

Nearly no difference. It made a difference for a few years, then TfL - in their infinite wisdom, started increasing the cost of travel cards and single journeys by tube/bus... it'll now cost you near on £9 to get a day travelcard (or 50p less than that using the human tracker Oyster card) which sees you all the way into London for the day and covers rush hour.

They then extended the scheme so include more land, and brilliantly this land was a massive residential area, and as such more people now have the residents discount so there are loads of people driving around paying next to nothing (not close enough to nothing for my liking).

This combined with the fact that more and more people started using the tube and therefore more and more people got fed up of being crammed on like sardines for little less than driving in in their comfortable cars and the traffic is going back up.

Let's not forget that I haven't even covered how much congestion has increased on the one "through road" down the middle of the zone and on the peremetres as people avoid paying the £8.

A congestion charge might well encourage people onto Public Transport but only where there is a hugely extensive system in place which is at LEAST 50% cheaper than travelling by car and operates at all times of the day ALL over the city... and to do this means you won't be cutting emissions as dirty great buses would have to be running all day and night and you'll be losing money - therefore they wont do it this way, they'll just do it the way that doesn't work but does raise some cash

Edited by mmltonge on Tuesday 17th June 13:41

[DonLogan]

I visit Manchester perhaps five or six times a year to splurge, do some retail therapy and go to the occasional gig. It already costs me the best part of a tenner to park my car which is cheeky enough when your pouring your hard earned into the local economy. Now they want to charge me to enter Manchester in my car as well? I don't think so. I'll take my hard earned to a City which which doesn't charge through the nose. Liverpool is a similar distance away, I'll go there! I really feel for those that don't have a choice - you have been shafted. We've all been shafted again!

The failings of this governement (and past governments) is simply staggering in relation to the UK's transport policy. We pay more in motor related taxes than pretty much any other country on the planet and we have been doing for years and years. This government should be on the brink of announcing that Britain is ready to break it's addiction to oil as the years of taxation levied on the motorist has been invested in research of alternative fuels and delivery systems and the design and execution of a transport infrastructure that is world class.

Instead the vast sums have been used to.... well fund everything and anything it seems, certainly not our transport future. The horse has well and truly bolted and the only solution, fix, response, whatever you want to call it from this government is for further taxation on the poor motorist. Play us another one Gordon!

[poindexter]

I think most city councils will try this on through time, they muck about with pedestrianising efficient traffic thouroughfares and putting in buses only routes,in reality strangling traffic so to justify setting up these schemes.
Unfortunately for them the average motorist sees these scams for what they really are, but how many will remember come polling time?.
Here in Glasgow the council (like so many others ) are desperate to get us all on to buses. However since de-regulation the condition of some buses leaves much to be desired, in fact they are recognised as being the biggest polluters on the road, so where is the "green" factor in all of this?. One of the previous posters got it right the only green they are really interested in is £££££'s.

[nemeton]

At the last general election in 2005:

In Manchester Blackley, 62% voted for New labour

In Manchester Central, 58% voted for New labour

In Manchester Gorton, 53% voted for New Labour

In Manchester Withington, 41% voted for New labour.

All the figures are from the bbc web site which shows a little map of surrounding constituency's that all voted to be represented by a Labour MP.

Parden me if I gloat, but you voted for Labour, now pay for it

[DamoLLb]

Is anybody else falling for this 'cut pollution' bull? It is becoming so bloody annoying hearing the same argument over and over again. i fear however that this is not just a labour fad, but a definate direction for all future governments- I dont want to emigrate, I love my country, but stop conning the motorist FFS!

I wish that we could see a genuine balance sheet for our government so we can see exactly what 'cutting pollution' gets spent on

rant over

[Andy_742]

I live in manchester and I've yet to speak to one person who is in favour it. They've caused all the congestion with their buslanes, keep left signs, and building big shops and complex's on all the main routes in and out. Examples would be the tesco and M&S in prestwich, manchester fort in cheetham hill, buslanes on bury new road, removing lanes round salford precinct etc, etc....

If you where cynical you would think they're deliberatly causing the congestion so they can charge for it....

[3sixty]

I work in Manchester, as central as you can possibly get on Cross Street and also do takeaway deliveries at night. So I know most of the roads pretty well and am driving on them at most times in the day.

I can't see that there is a major congestion problem. Sure, Deansgate gets busy at times, but the majority of the day it flows and the only major zones of congestion are around the motorway slip roads.

I certainly don't think its worthy of a congestion charge, although what amused me most is on North West Tonight they interviewed the 'academic', their words, behind the London CC. He said, although not an exact quote, that "the CC in Manchester is ESSENTIAL to improve traffic congestion. Drivers sat in traffic are wondering 'if only we had the CC, I would not be sat in this traffic. The CC is needed to improve the local economy and regeneration"

Edited by 3sixty on Tuesday 17th June 14:57