RE: Diss Information
Monday 20th October 2003

Diss Information

Robert Farago ponders on Ford's recent 'leaks'


Earlier this year, Ford was preparing to launch its revised F-150 pickup truck.  The Boys from the Blue Oval knew all-too-well that their empires fortunes rested on their new truck’s brawny shoulders.  They also knew that Nissan’s new Titan - the first Japanese product to crash America’s full-size pick-up party - was set for release around the same time.  So, pre-launch, Ford gave out phony towing numbers. 

That’s right; Ford deliberately leaked an incorrect maximum towing capacity of 9500lbs.  The idea: trick Nissan’s product engineers into competing against the fake number.  Then, surprise!  Reveal that the new F-150 can actually tow 9900lbs.!  It worked.  The F-150 out-pulls the Titan by 400lbs.  Ford sandbagged Nissan.  

News Breaks

When news of the tactic broke, Ford brand President Steve Lyons was about as far from contrite as an executive can get without actually saying “So what?”  He justified Ford’s disinformation campaign as “high stakes poker”.  “We thought we would put a conservative number out there and see what the competition would do… We make a lot of money on F-150, and it’s a huge piece of our dealer profitability.”

Oh, so that’s alright then.  Strangely, Nissan thinks it is.  Listening to Chief Truck Engineer Larry Dominique, you’d think duplicity is the highest form of flattery.  “When a well-established player in the segment has to use my truck as comparison, that’s a lot of instant credibility,” Dominique says.  “If they have to react to us, we’re obviously doing something right.”

OK to Spin?

Indeed, Nissan is doing a lot right these days, what with the new 350Z screaming up the sales charts and their upmarket Infiniti brand catching fire.  But what of Ford?  Am I the only one who’s shocked, saddened and appalled that one of America’s most revered corporations feels it’s OK to lie?  Spin, sure, everybody spins.  But this wasn’t a normal game of factual footsie.  It was a calculated attempt to subvert the process of fair competition.  One that misled the public.  

I’m no truck guy, but according to Dominique, many consumers put towing capacity near the top of their wish list.  “Towing capacity is way up there.  In some cases, it’s more important than horsepower.  Even people who don’t own anything to tow tell us that someday they might.  So towing is always in the purchase consideration.”

Right, so, if a buyer heard tell of Ford’s artificially low towing figures for the F-150, placed an order for a Nissan Titan, then discovered Ford had been bluffing and switched over to the F-150, could he or she sue Ford to recover his or her lost deposit?  What about fraud?  (We are talking about America.) 

Poker

To my mind, the towing lie - small in itself - represents an enormous loss of face for Ford. Whatever else you can say about Henry Ford’s beliefs, which included virulent anti-Semitism and staunch anti-unionism, Ford’s founding father was a straight shooter in the great American tradition.  He respected his country’s faith in honesty, hard work and fair play.  Somehow, I don’t think the anti-Nissan “poker game” fits that remit.

Lest we forget, this tall towing tale follows hard on the heels of Mazda’s horsepower debacle.  Ford’s Japanese partner was forced to admit that they’d inflated the horsepower figures for the Miata (MX5), and then again for the new RX8.  In that case, the company responded well, offering generous financial restitution to owners-- whether or not they bought their car based on Mazda’s hp claims.  Still, the stench of perfidy must surely have taken its toll on Mazda/Ford’s most important asset: their reputation. 

Fact  

As a freelance automotive journalist, I’m extremely sensitive to issues of fact and reputation.  I fact-check every article I write and try to represent myself properly to both sources and publications.  Even so, I’ve made mistakes, paid the price, and learned my lesson.  So I’m not criticizing Ford for their ethically bankrupt scheme, committed in the face of enormous financial pressures.  It’s their complete lack of contrition that I find so galling.  Clearly, Ford feels free to repeat the tactic in similar circumstances. 

If you want to be trusted, you must be trustworthy.  Every day, tens of thousands of Ford employees bust a gut to do just that.  I’m sure most of the workers who build the F-150 would have preferred it if Ford’s PR flacks had said “Our truck’s towing capacity will be 9900lbs.  Beat that Nissan!”  Instead, FoMoCo ends-up looking sneaky and underhanded.  If you think about it, the dodgy maneuver almost makes it seem as if Nissan’s got Ford running scared. 

Maybe so.  The Titan’s standard V8 engine is more powerful than the F-150’s optional V8.  The Titan has a five-speed transmission to the F-150’s four-speed box.  Again, I’m not a truck guy.  But facts is facts.  A company’s ability to face them determines its character.  And, ultimately, its survival.   

Author
Discussion

enog

Original Poster:

1 posts

267 months

Monday 20th October 2003
quotequote all
I think to come out and say that Ford lied about the towing weight of the F-150 is a bit unsubstantiated without some stronger evidence. Car companies make mistakes with published weights and speeds of vehicles all the time, so why could the towing weight issue not simply be a mistake? One which Ford then came out and recitifed by giving the correct weights involved.

If people are willing to jump in and order another vehicle without checking the proper specs first, then that is their problem, not Fords.

james

1,362 posts

305 months

Monday 20th October 2003
quotequote all
I have to go along with Ford on this one. "So what"? What's the big deal? They sowed a bit of disinformation to put the competition off their stroke?

It looks like it's been a slow news week in the US motoring press, so you've had to try to cook up something out of nothing. I'm afraid you haven't done a very good job of it either.

James

Podie

46,647 posts

296 months

Monday 20th October 2003
quotequote all
The article says said:
Ford deliberately leaked an incorrect maximum towing capacity of 9500lbs. The idea: trick Nissan’s product engineers into competing against the fake number. Then, surprise! Reveal that the new F-150 can actually tow 9900lbs.! It worked. The F-150 out-pulls the Titan by 400lbs. Ford sandbagged Nissan.



Well IF Ford did leak the number (and this seems like wild speculation IMHO), then why did Nissan not raise it's game and ensure that IT'S figure was better...?



Added to which, as anyone in the motor industry will tell you, testing may lead to surprise benefits, hence it may have been designed to tow 9500lbs, whilst durability testing showed it was capable of 9900lbs.... much in the same way that some manufactuers claim top speeds, or bhp figures, only to be proved wrong...

>> Edited by Podie on Monday 20th October 12:12

levensnevel

245 posts

293 months

Monday 20th October 2003
quotequote all
Good to see that Robert is back. I did miss his columns.
Well Ford. They are in a downward spiral and are yet unable to stop that momentum. Lets hope that Jaguar, Aston Martin and Volvo will be able to turn the tide

levensnevel

a smile every mile

robert farago

108 posts

291 months

Monday 20th October 2003
quotequote all
To clarify...

As the article says, Ford fully admits that it knowingly and deliberately released the wrong towing figures in order to fool the competition.

RF

Podie

46,647 posts

296 months

Monday 20th October 2003
quotequote all
robert farago said:
To clarify...

As the article says, Ford fully admits that it knowingly and deliberately released the wrong towing figures in order to fool the competition.

RF



Hmm... I'd call that a "politican's answer"...


article said:

When news of the tactic broke, Ford brand President Steve Lyons was about as far from contrite as an executive can get without actually saying “So what?” He justified Ford’s disinformation campaign as “high stakes poker”. “We thought we would put a conservative number out there and see what the competition would do… We make a lot of money on F-150, and it’s a huge piece of our dealer profitability.”



My previous comment still stands. If Nissan were stupid enough not to better the released figure... that's their loss.

>> Edited by Podie on Monday 20th October 14:54

phase90

85 posts

295 months

Monday 20th October 2003
quotequote all
That is more speculation. A car company will not stand behind any numbers released until a vehicle is actually released. That is known. Speculative numbers are released all the time on forthcoming models.

nigelb

1 posts

267 months

Tuesday 21st October 2003
quotequote all
With all due respect to the thoughts communicated in the article, I have to wonder what Ford (or any other business)owes it competitors. Call it spin, or just outright lying, but it seems to me that Ford had no obligation to offer Nissan or anyone else an open insight to their product line.

The consumer certainly is not suffering in this particular instance.

Auto makers have for decades understate various reference points for various reasons. In the late 60s it was not uncommon at all for an automaker to "play down" the horsepower figures for insurance purposes.

In the end, it seems that the customer will benefit from the continued competitive practices. Nissan will learn that it can't let its design and engineering depend on press releases from Ford.

If Nissan were interested, they could have put the same effort into the design of the Titan. (A worthy truck in its own right)

For this auto enthusiast, I hope Ford's spin keeps the others builders on their toes.

zumbruk

7,848 posts

281 months

Tuesday 21st October 2003
quotequote all
Diss is in Norfolk. That's all the information I have about it, I'm afraid.

Or did you mean "disinformation"?

greg_d

6,542 posts

267 months

Wednesday 22nd October 2003
quotequote all
haven't you ever thrown anybody a curveball Robert!!!

I think that Nissan should produce the best truck that they are capable of, and if that is better than the F-150, great, if not, do better next time.

maybe this experience will encourage them not to be smart arses next time.

jj.

574 posts

291 months

Wednesday 22nd October 2003
quotequote all
If they ‘leaked’ the information, surely that means it was for internal use only. Weather it was leaked deliberately or not. So an internal document, as we all know is hardly ever what you get within the final product. Things always change in production. So what’s all the fuss about. Nissan did try and match Ford – on a piece of internal information, Ford then changed it. So.. I call it healthy competition. They shouldn’t have been trying to copy them in the first place, they should have originally planned to beat it

Even though I’ve never owned a Ford, in the 90’s I thought the company and their cars were pretty rubbish. Although in the 00’s I think ford at the moment can not do anything wrong (still wouldn’t buy on though!).
jj

unlicensed

7,585 posts

271 months

Wednesday 22nd October 2003
quotequote all
doesnt the new f 150 have some new invented steel thingy that blocks out all sounds so the advert said?

daver

1,209 posts

305 months

Thursday 23rd October 2003
quotequote all
Marketing bollocks. Who cares?

Just out of (weak) interest. Do the drivers of such vehicles ever actually tow anything - or is the whole towing capability of these things about as relevant as an argument in Surrey over whether an X5 or a Cayenne is better off-road?

PiB

1,199 posts

291 months

Thursday 23rd October 2003
quotequote all
Good grief there has got to be some better things to diss about than this trucks figures. I mean if a child tells his mum he's going to get a B when he knows hes going to get an A+ should he be lashed with a wet noodle? Nissan should just beat the figure a few months later if it's that important. Oh yeas and the US manufacturers are hurting finacially just like the British owned auto co's...oh wait all the big Brit co's are foreign owned. (I couldn't find the emocon I really wanted)

Why not complain about there being a lack of any affordable US sportscars. (That can handle and not just go straight fast then break down.) But Farago wants to talk and test drive trucks. Then test drive front wheel drive Pontiacs.

Oh well it's still an amusing report.

THE DRIVER

60 posts

267 months

Thursday 23rd October 2003
quotequote all
tvr do it with there figures massive difference in actual bhp figures and factory bullshit ones

danmangt40

296 posts

305 months

Friday 24th October 2003
quotequote all
the nissan titan will sell to the large truck buyer who has no loyalty to the big three but just wants a huge, FAST, hauling device. and what exactly is 9900 vs 9500 lbs anyway? by my count:
(9900-9500)/9500= .042=4.2% better towing for the ford over the nissan. One really shouldn't be anywhere near their MAX towing capacity on a regular basis, so being within 4.2% of that max is similarly stupid, in which case their nissan would be able to handle it anyway. And the buyers who are considering buying based on "I might have to pull someday" will likely get jetskis and could have pulled it off with some old 4-banger mitsubishi pickup not optimized for towing. So its a wash. Bravo to Ford for tricking Nissan out of bragging rights in an important sales stat. Bollocks for any other angle on it. just make sure the ford GT has the full 500 hp or more.

robert farago

108 posts

291 months

Sunday 2nd November 2003
quotequote all
You have the morals of a snake, sir.

HughGabriel

3,694 posts

262 months

Monday 19th April 2004
quotequote all
As was mentioned earlier 4.2% more for the Ford isnt a great deal. Also, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought pulling weights were primarily to do with the ability to stop. So if Nissan want to better Ford can't they just upgrade their brakes in a month or so?