Thursday 15th January 2009

Jag Plans New Mid-engined Supercar

Rumours emerge of biggest big cat since XJ220

---

XJ220 was last mid-engined Jag

Jaguar is planning a mid-engined flagship that will be the marque's first new sportscar under the ownership of Tata Motors. According to Auto Express, the new supercar will probably be called the XE, and will make its debut as a concept at some point in 2010.

It will likely be powered by a tuned version of Jag's supercharged 503bhp 5.0-litre V8, seen recently in the XF-R. The news comes as the car's most likely mid-engined V8 competitor, the Audi R8, gets ready to up the ante by moving to V10 power.

This is only the fourth time that Jaguar has thought about using a mid-engined layout. The first time it was considered was with the XJ13 concept from the late 60s, which looked great but never made it to production.

Jaguar didn't produce a mid-engined sportscar until 1990 with the XJR-15. Just 50 examples were made of this V12 monster, which was based on the Le Mans winning XJR-9 racing car of 1988.

The company's most recent attempt at putting the engine in the middle was in the XJ220, the 1991 supercar that dominated bedroom walls throughout its short life (and long after).

Since then Jag has kept the engine in the traditional place for GTs, but as in the past, when Jaguar wants to make a supercar it knows where to stick the engine.

You may recall that in the middle of last year we heard about plans for a stylish GT to be called the F-type, but this new car now looks set to beat it into production, possibly hitting the shelves in just 12 months time.

We're taking this as Jaguar's tacit prediction of when the recession will end...

[Mr Gear]

Just what the world needs! A new supercar from a cash-strapped company in a recession with a looming energy crisis! Woo-hoo! I'll take 6.

[infradig]

To the list of the cheque thing and the in your mouth thing,should be added'Jaguar to make supercar'

As much as I'd like to believe it,as my creditors and their wives will tell you-somethings should not be promised!

[Stu R]

Inclined to say it's never going to happen. I bloody well hope it does though.

They're certainly on a roll, the XFR and XKR are sublime

[Fetchez la vache]

I imagine tata have been looking at the sales figures for the competators very closely. I wouldn't put any money on this coming to fruition any time soon unless they are very close to production already.

[190E Matt]

Lets hope they give this one the brakes and engine it deserves.

[Turbobanana]

Mr Gear said:

Just what the world needs! A new supercar from a cash-strapped company in a recession with a looming energy crisis! Woo-hoo! I'll take 6.

+1 Just what I was thinking. Didn't yesterday's story go along the lines of "Jaguar / Land Rover shedding jobs"?

[ode]

I'm sure the 450 people who's jobs are going will be really excited about this.

FFS, could the management rub any more salt into those wounds?

[Mr Gear]

Turbobanana said:

Mr Gear said:

Just what the world needs! A new supercar from a cash-strapped company in a recession with a looming energy crisis! Woo-hoo! I'll take 6.

+1 Just what I was thinking. Didn't yesterday's story go along the lines of "Jaguar / Land Rover shedding jobs"?

Yeah, sorry to sound sarcastic & negative, but seriously, WHAT the hell are they playing at?

[Fiatfan]

Something nice to build with the government bail out money!

[tridave]

ode said:

I'm sure the 450 people who's jobs are going will be really excited about this.

FFS, could the management rub any more salt into those wounds?

These super hyper cars all ways sell to the very rich. McLaren have all the SLR speedster sold - AML will be the same with there 77.

Even if they only make 200 of the things it will still sell and create jobs.

[mister.t]

I hope its built - Jag are on a roll at the moment, and judging by that, this should be pretty good

[Bizzle]

Turbobanana said:

Mr Gear said:

Just what the world needs! A new supercar from a cash-strapped company in a recession with a looming energy crisis! Woo-hoo! I'll take 6.

+1 Just what I was thinking. Didn't yesterday's story go along the lines of "Jaguar / Land Rover shedding jobs"?

Well run and correctly managed companies will adapt to harsh economic conditions but consistently re-invest in the future. The recession isn't going to last forever and a company that's business model is based on MAKING AND SELLING CARS can't just stop doing that because there is a recession or the company would go bust. Most people write, moan and grumble instead of understanding the reasoning behind these things. Super car builds by large motoring manufactures often don’t “make” money – in fact with the R&D that goes into them, if you tried to balance the books on an individual project it would probably make a fair old loss (Think Bugatti Veyron) However, the R&D that’s undertaken on this project is filtered down to the base models over a period of time, not to mention the halo PR and Marketing effect that comes from having a well received super car as your brands flagship.

In my opinion, building a new “British Built” Super Car (even if it’s owned by TATA) is a truly fantastic piece of positive PR and marketing that will go a very long way to position Jaguar up with BMW, Mercedes and Audi rather than alongside VW and Ford where the brand has sat for the last few years. Even with modest sales it’ll more than pay for it’s self in the halo effect alone.

Providing they don’t cock it up.

[Nobody You Know]

I'de love to know were this rumour came from and how the hell a whole story has been made from it....

I supect it started from somebody in the boardroom saying off the cuff "we should have a new supercar ready for when the economy is recovering in 2013/14"

Somehow someone at a mag has heard this and a whole story has been fabricated, what a load of rubbish.

If I sit here at my desk and talk to my colleagues about how Jag' should make a 2000bhp twin engined pikes peak car will that be turned into an Autocar story????

[theJT]

Anyone rich enough to buy a Jaguar Supercar isn't being greatly worried by the current economic climate. When the squeeze comes in the people at the very top stay at the top since they don't have to worry about their mortgage repayments, depreciation on their car, chances of losing their job... If this thing costs a couple of hundred thousand and is made in very small numbers they'll still be easily able to shift the lot.

[Mr Gear]

Bizzle said:

Turbobanana said:

Mr Gear said:

Just what the world needs! A new supercar from a cash-strapped company in a recession with a looming energy crisis! Woo-hoo! I'll take 6.

+1 Just what I was thinking. Didn't yesterday's story go along the lines of "Jaguar / Land Rover shedding jobs"?

Well run and correctly managed companies will adapt to harsh economic conditions but consistently re-invest in the future. The recession isn't going to last forever and a company that's business model is based on MAKING AND SELLING CARS can't just stop doing that because there is a recession or the company would go bust. Most people write, moan and grumble instead of understanding the reasoning behind these things. Super car builds by large motoring manufactures often don’t “make” money – in fact with the R&D that goes into them, if you tried to balance the books on an individual project it would probably make a fair old loss (Think Bugatti Veyron) However, the R&D that’s undertaken on this project is filtered down to the base models over a period of time, not to mention the halo PR and Marketing effect that comes from having a well received super car as your brands flagship.

In my opinion, building a new “British Built” Super Car (even if it’s owned by TATA) is a truly fantastic piece of positive PR and marketing that will go a very long way to position Jaguar up with BMW, Mercedes and Audi rather than alongside VW and Ford where the brand has sat for the last few years. Even with modest sales it’ll more than pay for it’s self in the halo effect alone.

Providing they don’t cock it up.

The sentiment is good, but I can't help look at a company like Jag or Land Rover and think that they have incomplete model ranges. Noone is buying Jags or Land Rovers at the moment because they have nothing to offer buyers in this sort of economic situation. OK, so maybe the recession won't last forever, but the low fuel prices won't either.

BMW have everything from the 1-series and Mini right through to 4x4s and luxury barges. Mercedes have a similar deal going on, as do Audi and the VAG group as a whole. These companies can afford to do supercars. Jaguar cannot. In my opinion, it should aim to have more cars in the range that have wider appeal. They can still be luxury, but the reason that BMW and Mercedes survive is because they have models that work in any economic climate.

[IPAddis]

Pistonheads said:

You may recall that in the middle of last year we heard about plans for a stylish GT to be called the F-type, but this new car now looks set to beat it into production, possibly hitting the shelves in just 12 months time.

Last time I pleaded with Jag to make the F-Type, they made a FWD 2.0 X-Type diesel instead. Now I hate to say I told you so but...

MAKE THE F'ING F-TYPE YOU MUPPETS!

Ian A.

[Fire99]

Some people are miserable sods.

Well i'm not going to argue with the marketing men so it'll be good to see what comes to frutrition. Perhaps they're trying to raise the company's profile and steer its image away from 'Classic' British cars for old folk and make it competitive with the likes of Audi and Mercedes.
After all barely a day goes by without hearing Mercedes strapping an even more powerful engine to their cars.

[rundhuhn]

Article said:
It will likely be powered by a tuned version of Jag's supercharged 503bhp 5.0-litre V8, seen recently in the XF-R. The news comes as the car's most likely mid-engined V8 competitor, the Audi R8, gets ready to up the ante by moving to V10 power.

But there is nothing wrong with the V8. We are talking about a supercharged engine, where two additional cylinders make the engine only more complicated, without having any technical advantage. IMHO, having V10 engines (in cars) is mainly a marketing gimmick.

[Marwood79]

Zzzzz...another clichéd halo Marketing car that is unattainable to all but the highest earners - those that can afford it already have a dearth of such motors to choose from.

Listen to me now Jaguar... F-Type concept. Remember that? - mooted launch price at the time approx £36k - call it £45k in modern money. Stunningly beautiful, undoubtedly a special ownership prospect AND emminently accessible to a vastly larger number of willing enthusiasts.

There is a hole in the market for folk who could probably buy a new Cayman/Evora but probably won't because it represents a shed-load of otherwise disposable money every month, and those cars aren't quite special enough to warrant it... Jaguar could nail that sector with a new F-type - push the boat out - cheer us all up a bit.

[NDT]

Bizzle said:

Turbobanana said:

Mr Gear said:

Just what the world needs! A new supercar from a cash-strapped company in a recession with a looming energy crisis! Woo-hoo! I'll take 6.

+1 Just what I was thinking. Didn't yesterday's story go along the lines of "Jaguar / Land Rover shedding jobs"?

Well run and correctly managed companies will adapt to harsh economic conditions but consistently re-invest in the future. The recession isn't going to last forever and a company that's business model is based on MAKING AND SELLING CARS can't just stop doing that because there is a recession or the company would go bust. Most people write, moan and grumble instead of understanding the reasoning behind these things. Super car builds by large motoring manufactures often don’t “make” money – in fact with the R&D that goes into them, if you tried to balance the books on an individual project it would probably make a fair old loss (Think Bugatti Veyron) However, the R&D that’s undertaken on this project is filtered down to the base models over a period of time, not to mention the halo PR and Marketing effect that comes from having a well received super car as your brands flagship.

In my opinion, building a new “British Built” Super Car (even if it’s owned by TATA) is a truly fantastic piece of positive PR and marketing that will go a very long way to position Jaguar up with BMW, Mercedes and Audi rather than alongside VW and Ford where the brand has sat for the last few years. Even with modest sales it’ll more than pay for it’s self in the halo effect alone.

Providing they don’t cock it up.

This is a vanity project.
JLR can't afford vanity projects. Any attempt to justify it based on 'halo' effects is just an admission that the numbers don't add up.
I've written a few business cases for low volume, 'supercar' type products for global OEMs (i.e. professionally not just for fun) so have a little insight into how they work.

Aside from the financials (as if anything else mattered right now, which for companies in survival mode, it doesn't) this would be a big distraction from the main business of trying to design, develop, market, source and manufacture cars which can compete against some outstanding competitors.

Edited by NDT on Thursday 15th January 13:42