RE: Drive Like the Ants
Monday 9th February 2009
The not so humble ant can teach pushy humans a thing or two when it comes to traffic management.Despite route-marching over every continent in their quest for global domination, they never get stuck in jams.
Drive Like the Ants
Aussie entomologist has unusual solution for congested roads...
Experts at the University of Sydney have been studying leaf-cutter ants to see if their behaviour could provide the basis for a system of driverless cars controlled by ant traffic algorithms, according to a recent report in Wired Science.
'We should use their rules,' said Sydney entomologist Audrey Dussutour. 'I’ve been working with ants for eight years and have never seen a traffic jam, and I’ve tried.'
According to Dussutour, the secret of success is simple - patience. Leaf-cutter ants on the move organise themselves into highly regular streams of load-carrying and unloaded individuals, a bit like a multi-lane highway.
Now studies have shown that when the creatures reach a potential bottleneck like a ‘single lane’ tree branch, unladen ants queue patiently behind the slower-moving load carriers instead of trying to overtake.
The university team has calculated this behaviour reduces the delay experienced by an individual ant crossing a crowded three-metre bridge from 64 to 32 seconds.
When applied to future Inter-Vehicle Communications systems, researchers hope ant behaviour can one day help improve the human rat race.
Discussion
Really nice and all if you're an ant, but seriously, look at the maths! a laden or unladen ant moves at quite about the same speed regardless, the difference in speed is minimal, but surely you can't expect a traffic system to be more effecient if everyone drove at the speed of the slowest hybrid or whatever. highways, etc, are only effecient if slower vehicles stick to the inner lanes, and everyone else speed through as safely as possible, thereby utilizing maximum road space provided. Lane discipline is utterly necessary people! Always overtake on the right, and everyone will get to drive as quick as they want.
Either that or i'm not understanding what he's advocating for.
Oh, and buses are a different issue cause they still simply carry more people per unit road space, so we should still give way to them.
Either that or i'm not understanding what he's advocating for.
Oh, and buses are a different issue cause they still simply carry more people per unit road space, so we should still give way to them.
I think he might be missing something. AIUI, most if not all "ant trails" radiate out from the nest, so there are no crossroads. Also, all the ants want to get from one end to the other - they don't stop mid-trail. Once an ant is on a trail, it can move at the speed of the trail (which is at the pace of the slowest) but because there are no traffic lights, roundabouts, or "inconsiderate parkers", they get to where they're going without need to stop. Of course, ants have to wait their turn to get on the trail, but that's the only hold-up of each journey.
So, if we're going to mimic the ants' system, we have to get rid of all junctions and roundabouts, ban stopping anywhere on the road system, and ensure that everyone has unique routes that radiate out from where they live to wherever they might want to go. Somehow, I don't think such a system is practical.
Will
So, if we're going to mimic the ants' system, we have to get rid of all junctions and roundabouts, ban stopping anywhere on the road system, and ensure that everyone has unique routes that radiate out from where they live to wherever they might want to go. Somehow, I don't think such a system is practical.
Will
Why don't they just use nature in a sensible way like rivers?
The more volume of water the bigger the river. Do the same with the roads, side roads feeding into bigger main roads and easing congestion. Simple. Just like the "powers that be" but more helpful.
Or let us drivers decide what is best for us and stop with pathetic studies from school kids with no driving experience.
The more volume of water the bigger the river. Do the same with the roads, side roads feeding into bigger main roads and easing congestion. Simple. Just like the "powers that be" but more helpful.
Or let us drivers decide what is best for us and stop with pathetic studies from school kids with no driving experience.
willcove said:
I think he might be missing something. AIUI, most if not all "ant trails" radiate out from the nest, so there are no crossroads. Also, all the ants want to get from one end to the other - they don't stop mid-trail. Once an ant is on a trail, it can move at the speed of the trail (which is at the pace of the slowest) but because there are no traffic lights, roundabouts, or "inconsiderate parkers", they get to where they're going without need to stop. Of course, ants have to wait their turn to get on the trail, but that's the only hold-up of each journey.
So, if we're going to mimic the ants' system, we have to get rid of all junctions and roundabouts, ban stopping anywhere on the road system, and ensure that everyone has unique routes that radiate out from where they live to wherever they might want to go. Somehow, I don't think such a system is practical.
Will
Spot on. Also if the trail gets messed up then the ants will get confused, this professer also forget to mention that ants follow a pheoromone sent by other ants. So, if we're going to mimic the ants' system, we have to get rid of all junctions and roundabouts, ban stopping anywhere on the road system, and ensure that everyone has unique routes that radiate out from where they live to wherever they might want to go. Somehow, I don't think such a system is practical.
Will
? Have I missed something, has the dutch government taken over Belgium after the Fortis/ABN Amro merger?
news article said:
'We should use their rules,' said Sydney entomologist Audrey Dussutour. 'I’ve been working with ants for eight years and have never seen a traffic jam, and I’ve tried.'
and
Now studies have shown that when the creatures reach a potential bottleneck like a ‘single lane’ tree branch, unladen ants queue patiently behind the slower-moving load carriers instead of trying to overtake.
Hmm, I am interested in his definition of 'traffic jam', surely waiting patiently for the way ahead to be clear is the clearest definition of a traffic jam that there is?and
Now studies have shown that when the creatures reach a potential bottleneck like a ‘single lane’ tree branch, unladen ants queue patiently behind the slower-moving load carriers instead of trying to overtake.
Steve Gunnis said:
I wonder if the ants would have had quite such a problem negotiating a 10 metre lane closure due to a pothole on the A23 this morning. Took me three hours to get to work because of one pothole. Ridiculous.
Yeah, and to think, we pay all that <cough cough> 'road' 
fund licence too. 
Edited by joz8968 on Tuesday 10th February 14:27
Kevin VRs said:
news article said:
'We should use their rules,' said Sydney entomologist Audrey Dussutour. 'I’ve been working with ants for eight years and have never seen a traffic jam, and I’ve tried.'
and
Now studies have shown that when the creatures reach a potential bottleneck like a ‘single lane’ tree branch, unladen ants queue patiently behind the slower-moving load carriers instead of trying to overtake.
Hmm, I am interested in his definition of 'traffic jam', surely waiting patiently for the way ahead to be clear is the clearest definition of a traffic jam that there is?and
Now studies have shown that when the creatures reach a potential bottleneck like a ‘single lane’ tree branch, unladen ants queue patiently behind the slower-moving load carriers instead of trying to overtake.
My first thought too.Could easily re-write the article as:
Ozzie Antlover said:
Ants avoid traffic jams by queueing.
Er, hang on a sec mate...
Er, hang on a sec mate...
Blah blah blah. Rubbish re-branded as common sense? How to avoid bottle necks by remembering your place in society? Lovely idea but won't work in humans or in anything less than a fully automated drive situation.
Ant's use chemical signals to govern their movement patterns in the sense of the collective consciousness (well according to EO Wilson)- something that a car driven by a human would never be able to process as we lost the conscious ability to translate chemical signals long long ago. However, translate that in terms of electrical signals sent from one car to the other to inform the collective intelligence of the automated driver thingy and it might well work.
The bottom line is that a computer would know its place in the grand scheme of things just like ants, however whereas humans are individuals in a pack- ants are members of the collective (think Borg from Star Trek) - humans lack the ability to empathise with the collective and the ability to put the collective achievement over the individual achievement (e.g. queue jumping, road rage, competition etc); so any attempt at hybrid control would be a total failure.
Clear as mud?
Ant's use chemical signals to govern their movement patterns in the sense of the collective consciousness (well according to EO Wilson)- something that a car driven by a human would never be able to process as we lost the conscious ability to translate chemical signals long long ago. However, translate that in terms of electrical signals sent from one car to the other to inform the collective intelligence of the automated driver thingy and it might well work.
The bottom line is that a computer would know its place in the grand scheme of things just like ants, however whereas humans are individuals in a pack- ants are members of the collective (think Borg from Star Trek) - humans lack the ability to empathise with the collective and the ability to put the collective achievement over the individual achievement (e.g. queue jumping, road rage, competition etc); so any attempt at hybrid control would be a total failure.
Clear as mud?
Edited by munk on Tuesday 17th February 17:24
munk said:
Blah blah blah. Rubbish re-branded as common sense? How to avoid bottle necks by remembering your place in society? Lovely idea but won't work in humans or in anything less than a fully automated drive situation.
Ant's use chemical signals to govern their movement patterns in the sense of the collective consciousness (well according to EO Wilson)- something that a car driven by a human would never be able to process as we lost the conscious ability to translate chemical signals long long ago. However, translate that in terms of electrical signals sent from one car to the other to inform the collective intelligence of the automated driver thingy and it might well work.
The bottom line is that a computer would know its place in the grand scheme of things just like ants, however whereas humans are individuals in a pack- ants are members of the collective (think Borg from Star Trek) - humans lack the ability to empathise with the collective and the ability to put the collective achievement over the individual achievement (e.g. queue jumping, road rage, competition etc); so any attempt at hybrid control would be a total failure.
Clear as mud?
I don't fully agree with that, ants are far more intelligent than your giving them credit for, they are definitely more intelligent than humans. I HAVE PROOF!Ant's use chemical signals to govern their movement patterns in the sense of the collective consciousness (well according to EO Wilson)- something that a car driven by a human would never be able to process as we lost the conscious ability to translate chemical signals long long ago. However, translate that in terms of electrical signals sent from one car to the other to inform the collective intelligence of the automated driver thingy and it might well work.
The bottom line is that a computer would know its place in the grand scheme of things just like ants, however whereas humans are individuals in a pack- ants are members of the collective (think Borg from Star Trek) - humans lack the ability to empathise with the collective and the ability to put the collective achievement over the individual achievement (e.g. queue jumping, road rage, competition etc); so any attempt at hybrid control would be a total failure.
Clear as mud?
Edited by munk on Tuesday 17th February 17:24
One day they will take over the world and enslave us, they will be our masters.
Mark my words.
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