Monday 23rd February 2009

Cayenne S Hybrid

Clever Porsche promises speed and economy

---

Next year’s hybrid version of the Porsche Cayenne will combine a blown Audi V6, an electric motor and an 8-speed transmission to offer V8-levels of performance or four-cylinder economy.

According to new technical information just released from Stuttgart, the Cayenne S Hybrid will earn its ‘S’ badge with a 0-62mph sprint of just 6.8secs. Additionally, Porsche’s full parallel hybrid design will allow the big SUV to ‘coast’ under electric power alone at speeds of up to 86mph, greatly reducing fuel consumption and emissions at highway speeds. Current hybrid concepts offer their greatest benefits in city driving, says Porsche.

As a result, we can expect the Cayenne S Hybrid to deliver close to 30mpg under new European Driving Cycle rules - an official ‘combined cycle’ figure in the same ballpark as a big SUV with weedy four-cylinder power. CO2 output is said to be 20 percent lower than a combustion engine drive train with equivalent performance.

The Cayenne S Hybrid uses Audi’s 333bhp supercharged 3.0 V6 DFI engine with a 52hp three-phase electric motor (that also acts as the alternator) both driving through a newly developed 8-speed automatic transmission. The package also includes a 38kw nickel metal hydride battery that is small enough to fit in the Cayenne’s spare wheel well. A new Hybrid Manager control system requires 20,000 individual data parameters to keep the show on the road – three times the amount of data required by a regular EC system says Porsche.

However it’s the 8-speed transmission that seems to have been the key to unlocking the big Porker’s ‘green’ potential. Porsche engineers have added a new electrical drive pump to the conventional transmission oil pump to shift gears smoothly and efficiently in electric mode. Top speed comes in sixth gear, so the two higher gears serve to further reduce engine speed to enhance fuel economy. It’s the long 8^th gear that enables the driver to 'coast' without the combustion engine at speeds up to 86 mph.

A similar hybrid set-up is promised for the new Panamera four-door sports saloon in 2011.

[Mr Gear]

I always have problems understanding the point of taking a huge, overweight car and then trying to make it more efficient. Why not start with something more efficient in the first place?

But if we can have our cake and eat it (performance and economy), I suppose its a good thing.

[Lextacy]

This would sell like hot cakes to those thinking they are doing their bit to save the environment, increasing the profits of Volkswagen, or sorry i meant Porsche !!!! What a loads of cobblers. Expect to see a skoda and seat hybrided soon and i dare not mention a Rolls Royce as well !!!!!!!

[lankyarcher]

A pointless vehicle becomes slightly less pointless! All that weight just disagree's with me.

All car's carry far too much weight these days IMHO.

Rant over......;)

Edited by lankyarcher on Monday 23 February 12:08

[Panayiotis]

If this helps to allow Porsche to keep churning out cars like the GT3RS, then so be it.

[nickpan]

But how will it offer V8 like performance?

[Ed.]

Mr Gear said:

I always have problems understanding the point of taking a huge, overweight car and then trying to make it more efficient. Why not start with something more efficient in the first place?

But if we can have our cake and eat it (performance and economy), I suppose its a good thing.

The cost of the new technology is easier to absorb into a larger price and added weight is easier to hide on a heavier vehicle. Also since SUV's seem to be an image driven choice for some the same should work for a hybrid badge. But this really aimed at the US and GM are doing it so why not join in, on another note if hybrids really are necessary I am glad someone has an alternative to CVT.

Edited by Ed. on Monday 23 February 12:44

[SleeperCell]

Panayiotis said:

If this helps to allow Porsche to keep churning out cars like the GT3RS taking over VAG, then so be it.

[varsas]

Hard to imagine a battery as small as a spare tyre (even one as large as a cayenne) being able to do very much at all.

I'm surprised you only need 52hp to run a cayenne at 86mph, they must be more aerodynamic then they look.

[LeoZwalf]

From the company who gave us this:


this:


and this:



are now giving us an diesel electric SUV.

The end is nigh

[mrclav]

LeoZwalf said:

The end is nigh

If that's what you think I suggest you buy an old Porsche and get over it old bean, it's not going to go away now!

[[AJ]]

When I first heard about the potential Diesel and Hybrid Cayennes last year my initial reaction was a defensive knee jerk and instant horror! However, the governments of this world will only continue to increase pressure on both manufacturers and the end user to turn to 'greener' vehicles. As others have said, as long as it allows Porsche to continue to produce proper sports cars then it doesn't matter. In fact, at least it sounds like Porsche are looking at this problem with performance as a primary consideration.

[life-in-old-dog]

Does anyone know the mpg of a standard LPG converted Cayenne - worth building upon this instead IMHO, ie improve this technology and make it more widely used - and have you seen the array of rare/toxic metals etc used in car batteries these days - where is it proposed these come from / go afterwards??

Now a Porsche genetically engineered thoroughbred race horse would be something to behold wouldn't it, and no congestion charge to boot??!

[Mr Gear]

life-in-old-dog said:

Does anyone know the mpg of a standard LPG converted Cayenne - worth building upon this instead IMHO, ie improve this technology and make it more widely used - and have you seen the array of rare/toxic metals etc used in car batteries these days - where is it proposed these come from / go afterwards??

Now a Porsche genetically engineered thoroughbred race horse would be something to behold wouldn't it, and no congestion charge to boot??!

LPG is worse for MPG than petrol and diesel. It is just as bad for CO2 output. Where it is better is it is lower on particulates.

And yes, batteries are made from exotic/toxic metals, and provided you don't throw them in the river when you are done with them, they can be recycled cost-effectively.

[angus54]

And when out of warranty and all that technology goes wrong...

....It'll be a second mortgage.

That's going to be the killer on these vehicles - only Porsche will be able to understand them as they will have the no doubt complex and expensive machines able to read the problems.

Its a good PR story anyway.

[nickpan]

angus54 said:

And when out of warranty and all that technology goes wrong...

....It'll be a second mortgage.

That's going to be the killer on these vehicles - only Porsche will be able to understand them as they will have the no doubt complex and expensive machines able to read the problems.

Its a good PR story anyway.

Yes - we should go back to horse and cart instead. Very "green" and no maintenance concerns.

[XitUp]

nickpan said:

But how will it offer V8 like performance?

By being lighter and with almost as much power...
Well, it's only .4 of a second out in 0-60.

LeoZwalf said:

are now giving us an diesel electric SUV.

The end is nigh

Are they? Link please.

Mr Gear said:

LPG is worse for MPG than petrol and diesel. It is just as bad for CO2 output. Where it is better is it is lower on particulates.

And yes, batteries are made from exotic/toxic metals, and provided you don't throw them in the river when you are done with them, they can be recycled cost-effectively.

Yup. LPG is cleaner, but CNG is even more so.

And agree on the battery, not sure why people assume they will just be dumped...

angus54 said:

And when out of warranty and all that technology goes wrong...

....It'll be a second mortgage.

That's going to be the killer on these vehicles - only Porsche will be able to understand them as they will have the no doubt complex and expensive machines able to read the problems.

Its a good PR story anyway.

Unlike all those cheap to maintain Porsches from the past...

Not sure why you think it would cost loads to fix or why you think it will need it as soon as the warranty is up?

[RichardR]

LeoZwalf said:

giving us an diesel electric SUV.

DFI = direct fuel injection, not diesel.

angus54 said:

only Porsche will be able to understand them as they will have the no doubt complex and expensive machines able to read the problems.

The machine's called a PIWIS tester and they are available to, and in most cases currently used by, decent independents.

[angus54]

Just my point of view - these ever more vastly complex machines will require ever more specialist looking after.

Warranties tend to run out after a specific amount of time (the time is calculated by accountants - based on claims data) sometimes three years + most vehicles tend to have more problems after this than prior to this age.

Not true of all I grant you but its why Kia can offer a 7 yr warranty and Land Rover do not.

[angus54]

nickpan said:

angus54 said:

And when out of warranty and all that technology goes wrong...

....It'll be a second mortgage.

That's going to be the killer on these vehicles - only Porsche will be able to understand them as they will have the no doubt complex and expensive machines able to read the problems.

Its a good PR story anyway.

Yes - we should go back to horse and cart instead. Very "green" and no maintenance concerns.

You joke but technology wise we are going backwards (forget your I-pods and gadgets) I'm talking about Concorde, landing on the moon etc..when the fuel runs out we will literally be back to square one.

Pick just one example: What electric vehicle will pull a 40ft articulated lorry trailer?

Go back again - what is going to produce that electricity in the first place?

These ideas are mere PR fluff and sticking plasters - with supposed global warming we'll all be needing boats not cars.

[XitUp]

angus54 said:

You joke but technology wise we are going backwards (forget your I-pods and gadgets) I'm talking about Concorde, landing on the moon etc..when the fuel runs out we will literally be back to square one.

Pick just one example: What electric vehicle will pull a 40ft articulated lorry trailer?

angus54 said:

Go back again - what is going to produce that electricity in the first place?

etc

angus54 said:

These ideas are mere PR fluff and sticking plasters - with supposed global warming we'll all be needing boats not cars.

Yeah, lets stick to using Mamoth fat lamps in our caves.