RE: FBS is Back!
Friday 21st November 2003
FBS is Back!
Life in the old dog yet!
FBS is to rise from the ashes. After closing recently due to selling only five cars in three years, a new company 'FBS Cars Ltd' has been formed. All physical and intellectual assets were sold to the new company which intends to restart production of the car.
Prior to that a review of the business will be conducted and more funds will be raised to get the wheels turning again.
We'll say it for the umpteenth and hopefully final time though - let's hope that review includes a new body for the competent but aesthetically challenging car.
Links : www.fbscars.co.uk , PH Road Test
Discussion
Be interesting to find out who the new owners are.
Meanwhile, how's this for a bit of speculation:
MG Rover are producing the SV, which is based on a platform they bought from De Tomaso/Qvale.
MG Rover also bought a Census.
So might we see a new MG sports car that's effectively a modified Census with a KV6 in place of the Duratec and a new body on top?
Would certainly be a cheaper way of getting into the sub Boxster/Z4 market than developing from scratch.
Meanwhile, how's this for a bit of speculation:
MG Rover are producing the SV, which is based on a platform they bought from De Tomaso/Qvale.
MG Rover also bought a Census.
So might we see a new MG sports car that's effectively a modified Census with a KV6 in place of the Duratec and a new body on top?
Would certainly be a cheaper way of getting into the sub Boxster/Z4 market than developing from scratch.
grahambell said:
So might we see a new MG sports car that's effectively a modified Census with a KV6 in place of the Duratec and a new body on top?
This idea has been floated before on PistonHeads and I agree, it does make a lot of sense.
However, if FBS can sort out the looks and the pricing then they will be onto a winner, I think, and will be able to go it alone and not need to sell out to someone like MG Rover.
If they choose not to sort out the looks then they're doomed to failure.
And if they choose to ignore the free "car clinic" that is PistonHeads a second time then they will be missing out on a golden opportunity. Where else could you find such a rich collection of your target audience?
>> Edited by JonRB on Friday 21st November 09:27
...word straight from the "Old Dog's" mouth as recieved in their news ltter today...
Especially one which was, by all accounts, as technically accomplished as the Census.
Sadly for FBS, I also agree with others here that the styling was a major let down. They just couldn't accept that people wouldn't only judge the car on it abilities.
To openly take that stance is to admit the car was ugly. IMHO
With cars like the GTM Libra on the market which match the Census closely for pace and agility, FBS can't afford to rest on their aesthetic lack of laurels.
The MG connection sounds promissing, and with a reasonabley credible badge on the bonnet, maybe we will get to see a few on the road.
Good luck to them...
Mouse
FBS said:To a degree I have to admire the head-strongness that allowed the company to get as far as it did in developing, and nearly productionising, a brand new car from scratch.
We are pleased to announce that all intellectual and physical assets
associated with the Census and its developments have been acquired by a
new
company. The new company intends to re-launch the Census following a
strategic review which is in progress..
We will be making further announcements over the coming months. You can
also
keep in touch via the old FBS web site at either www.fbscars.co.uk or
www.fb-eng.co.uk
We will be pleased to try to answer any questions you have via email to
this
address.
Thank you for your continued interest.
Especially one which was, by all accounts, as technically accomplished as the Census.
Sadly for FBS, I also agree with others here that the styling was a major let down. They just couldn't accept that people wouldn't only judge the car on it abilities.
To openly take that stance is to admit the car was ugly. IMHO
With cars like the GTM Libra on the market which match the Census closely for pace and agility, FBS can't afford to rest on their aesthetic lack of laurels.
The MG connection sounds promissing, and with a reasonabley credible badge on the bonnet, maybe we will get to see a few on the road.
Good luck to them...
Mouse
I seem to be on the mailing list... and got this...
We are pleased to announce that all intellectual and physical assets
associated with the Census and its developments have been acquired by a
new
company. The new company intends to re-launch the Census following a
strategic review which is in progress..
We will be making further announcements over the coming months. You can
also
keep in touch via the old FBS web site at either www.fbscars.co.uk or
www.fb-eng.co.uk
We will be pleased to try to answer any questions you have via email to
this
address.
Thank you for your continued interest.
We are pleased to announce that all intellectual and physical assets
associated with the Census and its developments have been acquired by a
new
company. The new company intends to re-launch the Census following a
strategic review which is in progress..
We will be making further announcements over the coming months. You can
also
keep in touch via the old FBS web site at either www.fbscars.co.uk or
www.fb-eng.co.uk
We will be pleased to try to answer any questions you have via email to
this
address.
Thank you for your continued interest.
What they need to do is slide in where TVR have left a huge gap...
I am totally serious on this ..a sub £30K car V8 or simuliar...it worked in 1998-1999
The Chimaera/Griffith isn't rocket science its customer led design. As long as it's noisy, and faster than a boxster most customers seem not too bothered whether it out drags a Ferrari at Santa Pod or not when they are bumbling arpound the countryside enjoying life.
Speed does matter, but so does price, noise and style
anyone there...
I'll get me coat then
I am totally serious on this ..a sub £30K car V8 or simuliar...it worked in 1998-1999
The Chimaera/Griffith isn't rocket science its customer led design. As long as it's noisy, and faster than a boxster most customers seem not too bothered whether it out drags a Ferrari at Santa Pod or not when they are bumbling arpound the countryside enjoying life.
Speed does matter, but so does price, noise and style
anyone there...
I'll get me coat then
With regards to MG using the Census as a base for the new MGF, I would say that is unlikely because even though the central tub of the census is a monocoque, it uses front and rear steel tube subframes and a GRP body, both of which are not suitable for mass production.
I suppose you could use a steel skin and extend the monocoque so it is the entire car, but then the weight will go up.
One thing I find really interesting about the Census is the claimed torsional rigidity figure of 17,000 NM/degree.
This compares with 10,000 NM/degree for the Elise, 15,000 NM/degree for the Z4, 7,000 NM/degree for the Smart Roadster and 14,000 for the GTM Libra/Spyder.
Given the Census is a true convertible (not a targa top like the Elise) and uses a steel monocoque for the central tub, I find this a really amazing figure. If measurements confirm this figure, which I gather is based on computer simulation, then it really is a remarkable chassis.
However, if I was going to invest in a UK niche car maker, I would look at GTM with an eye towards selling the Libra/Spyder across the EU through dealers. This means money for crash testing, meeting EU regulations etc... but the cars themselves are excellent (the red one in a previous post is a Libra).
They have a proprietary method for making the worlds only GRP monocoque chassis (first since the Lotus Elite?) that gives 107 Nm/degree/kg and 140 Nm/degree/kg for the convertible Spyder and coupe Libra respectively. These compare well with 147 Nm/degree/kg for the Lotus Elise (targa) chassis.
(For comparison, the Smart Roadster tridion chassis offers only 36 Nm/degree/kg and a carbon fibre monocoque can provide 350 Nm/degree/kg).
They also don't use front or rear subframes and have really nice packaging, with space behind the seats, a decent sized boot and still room for a full size spare in the front. The both look nice too.
I think FBS should explore the £15-16,000 range with a sub 700 kg front mid engine Lotus Elan (original) successor. Something around the price of a Smart Roadster but with a much stiffer body and a proper gear shift.
I suppose you could use a steel skin and extend the monocoque so it is the entire car, but then the weight will go up.
One thing I find really interesting about the Census is the claimed torsional rigidity figure of 17,000 NM/degree.
This compares with 10,000 NM/degree for the Elise, 15,000 NM/degree for the Z4, 7,000 NM/degree for the Smart Roadster and 14,000 for the GTM Libra/Spyder.
Given the Census is a true convertible (not a targa top like the Elise) and uses a steel monocoque for the central tub, I find this a really amazing figure. If measurements confirm this figure, which I gather is based on computer simulation, then it really is a remarkable chassis.
However, if I was going to invest in a UK niche car maker, I would look at GTM with an eye towards selling the Libra/Spyder across the EU through dealers. This means money for crash testing, meeting EU regulations etc... but the cars themselves are excellent (the red one in a previous post is a Libra).
They have a proprietary method for making the worlds only GRP monocoque chassis (first since the Lotus Elite?) that gives 107 Nm/degree/kg and 140 Nm/degree/kg for the convertible Spyder and coupe Libra respectively. These compare well with 147 Nm/degree/kg for the Lotus Elise (targa) chassis.
(For comparison, the Smart Roadster tridion chassis offers only 36 Nm/degree/kg and a carbon fibre monocoque can provide 350 Nm/degree/kg).
They also don't use front or rear subframes and have really nice packaging, with space behind the seats, a decent sized boot and still room for a full size spare in the front. The both look nice too.
I think FBS should explore the £15-16,000 range with a sub 700 kg front mid engine Lotus Elan (original) successor. Something around the price of a Smart Roadster but with a much stiffer body and a proper gear shift.
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