And here's another reason-Not to convert to LPG
Discussion
Drivers confused as LPG duty rises
Terry Macalister
Thursday December 11, 2003
The Guardian
The government was accused last night of creating confusion for motorists after announcing plans to phase out preferential tax treatment for vehicles running on liquefied petroleum gas.
The RAC Foundation said this let down many consumers who had been encouraged to buy more expensive cars suited to take LPG.
The chancellor argued that extensive consultation had left him convinced that the green benefits of LPG no longer justified the duty differential it enjoyed over other products. "The government will gradually increase the duty rate for LPG over the next three years setting duty differentials on a path towards a level commensurate with the fuel's environmental benefits."
The government did reiterate its commitment to natural gas and promised not to change duty levels covering this alternative fuel for at least another three years. "The emissions evidence for natural gas vehicles suggests that they offer considerable additional benefits over conventional fuels, particularly on air quality."
It also promised to provide modest encouragement to red diesel with a low sulphur content, of less than 0.005%.
The RAC said it understood that the government did not want to pick winners in the battle to introduce the most environmentally friendly fuel of the future.
The motoring group was deeply disappointed that its discussions with the Treasury ahead of the pre-budget report had come to little. "We told them that to give consistency to the debate you have to give commitments [on fiscal differentials] for at least five years." If you change the duty every year you just create total confusion. What is a motorist who has just gone out and bought a special LPG Volvo going to feel tonight?" said RAC director Edmund King.
Oil group BP which has been investing heavily in providing new service station requirements for LPG expressed its "disappointment" as did vehicle rental group Arval PHH.
Mr Brown was attacked by a wide range of green critics angry at what they described as a missed opportunity to take robust action to help the environment.
The Energy Savings Trust, set up by the government after the 1992 earth summit in Rio de Janeiro, also expressed its deep disappointment on a general "lack of progress" towards encouraging consumers to cut back on energy use.
News taken from here http://politics.guardian.co.uk/economics/story/0,11268,1104469,00.html .ATB Derek.
Terry Macalister
Thursday December 11, 2003
The Guardian
The government was accused last night of creating confusion for motorists after announcing plans to phase out preferential tax treatment for vehicles running on liquefied petroleum gas.
The RAC Foundation said this let down many consumers who had been encouraged to buy more expensive cars suited to take LPG.
The chancellor argued that extensive consultation had left him convinced that the green benefits of LPG no longer justified the duty differential it enjoyed over other products. "The government will gradually increase the duty rate for LPG over the next three years setting duty differentials on a path towards a level commensurate with the fuel's environmental benefits."
The government did reiterate its commitment to natural gas and promised not to change duty levels covering this alternative fuel for at least another three years. "The emissions evidence for natural gas vehicles suggests that they offer considerable additional benefits over conventional fuels, particularly on air quality."
It also promised to provide modest encouragement to red diesel with a low sulphur content, of less than 0.005%.
The RAC said it understood that the government did not want to pick winners in the battle to introduce the most environmentally friendly fuel of the future.
The motoring group was deeply disappointed that its discussions with the Treasury ahead of the pre-budget report had come to little. "We told them that to give consistency to the debate you have to give commitments [on fiscal differentials] for at least five years." If you change the duty every year you just create total confusion. What is a motorist who has just gone out and bought a special LPG Volvo going to feel tonight?" said RAC director Edmund King.
Oil group BP which has been investing heavily in providing new service station requirements for LPG expressed its "disappointment" as did vehicle rental group Arval PHH.
Mr Brown was attacked by a wide range of green critics angry at what they described as a missed opportunity to take robust action to help the environment.
The Energy Savings Trust, set up by the government after the 1992 earth summit in Rio de Janeiro, also expressed its deep disappointment on a general "lack of progress" towards encouraging consumers to cut back on energy use.
News taken from here http://politics.guardian.co.uk/economics/story/0,11268,1104469,00.html .ATB Derek.
It seems plain to me that Labour are not really bothered about the environment but more interested in raising taxes. When petrol duty is raised it is supposedly to discourage us from polluting (but they just want our money really), when people try to use a green alternative they just fine them for that as well.
airtrixx said:
It seems plain to me that Labour are not really bothered about the environment but more interested in raising taxes. When petrol duty is raised it is supposedly to discourage us from polluting (but they just want our money really), when people try to use a green alternative they just fine them for that as well.
It's taken you how long to figure this out??
Seriously it's time for every one to wake up before it's too late-the chancellor was on morning TV milking the "child" angle for all it was worth day or so ago.
However he didn't mention that HE'D CHANGED THE RULES FOR CHILD/WORKING FAMILY TAX CREDIT did he?? NO-TOSSER.
(basically for all but the "poorest" it'll be no longer index linked[think thats it])
They have the media eating out of their hand.
MoJo.
Been there & tried it, false economy, car loses value, it costs when it goes wrong which it will. Unless it's a factory fit kit your car will run like a piece of crap. The number of badly fitted & poorly designed kits is amazing. Euro Tunnel don't allow them on as so many are badly fitted.
All of my LPG cars were crap, drove like pigs, poor mpg, plus you have to refill far too frequently.
Buy a Tdi instead, proper torque & driveability, stupidly high economy & vast ranges too.
Mind you re Congestion Charge, you could have one fitted but not use it!
All of my LPG cars were crap, drove like pigs, poor mpg, plus you have to refill far too frequently.
Buy a Tdi instead, proper torque & driveability, stupidly high economy & vast ranges too.
Mind you re Congestion Charge, you could have one fitted but not use it!
Not stricktly true ! If the installation is done correctly then there's not much which can go wrong. Fuel (or better gas) economy also depends strongly on a correct installation and adjustment of the kit. It's open whether LPG is more economical than diesel but it beats petrol any day.
I reckon the best fuel to use would be natural gas. The stuff that comes out the pipe in your house and runs your cooker, central heating and fireplace etc..
All you would need is a small compressor to put it in the tank and a big tank in your car.
The best bit is the cost. At its current price (from the mains) it would be about a quarter the cost of petrol per mile. Of course the government would never allow it cos it would be difficult to tax. But you don't need to tell them....
Its also a very clean fuel and is normally run as a duel fuel vehicle (with petrol as the other fuel).
It would need starting on petrol (as do LPG systems) and then switched onto gas.
You would only really be able to fill up at home but most of your milage is back and forwards to work so you'll always be able to refill. For those longer trips simply run on petrol.
Andy
>> Edited by andytk on Sunday 21st December 17:15
All you would need is a small compressor to put it in the tank and a big tank in your car.
The best bit is the cost. At its current price (from the mains) it would be about a quarter the cost of petrol per mile. Of course the government would never allow it cos it would be difficult to tax. But you don't need to tell them....
Its also a very clean fuel and is normally run as a duel fuel vehicle (with petrol as the other fuel).
It would need starting on petrol (as do LPG systems) and then switched onto gas.
You would only really be able to fill up at home but most of your milage is back and forwards to work so you'll always be able to refill. For those longer trips simply run on petrol.
Andy
>> Edited by andytk on Sunday 21st December 17:15
CNG (compressed natural gas) was offered a few years ago and the filling stations wouldn't take it up, opting instead for the LPG route.
One reason for the failure to get CNG on to the forecourt is that you need stupidly high pressures to charge the vehicle tank which bring both hazards for the station and also for the user.
It also takes far longer to charge a CNG tank with the same volume of CNG as it does to fill with LPG
I really don't see why people all went running after LPG,it was clear from the start that as soon as it became popular enough to bring in cash they'd hammer it.
it just means that a dual fuel motorist will get taxed on the petrol the car uses to start on and then taxed again on the LPG it uses to stay "clean"
Diesel is by far more economical than LPG.
I say bring the tax down on petrol and tax the oil burners as soon as the LPG crew switch over to diesel
I've worked on several DANGEROUS lpg installationsas well as some factory fitted systems which would make driving a trabant a more pleasing choice.
One reason for the failure to get CNG on to the forecourt is that you need stupidly high pressures to charge the vehicle tank which bring both hazards for the station and also for the user.
It also takes far longer to charge a CNG tank with the same volume of CNG as it does to fill with LPG
I really don't see why people all went running after LPG,it was clear from the start that as soon as it became popular enough to bring in cash they'd hammer it.
it just means that a dual fuel motorist will get taxed on the petrol the car uses to start on and then taxed again on the LPG it uses to stay "clean"
Diesel is by far more economical than LPG.
I say bring the tax down on petrol and tax the oil burners as soon as the LPG crew switch over to diesel
I've worked on several DANGEROUS lpg installationsas well as some factory fitted systems which would make driving a trabant a more pleasing choice.
I agree with that, I was only saying that CNG would be a good idea if you could fill up from your own domestic gas supply and not pay any extra fuel duty on it. Then it would be rediculously cheap.
However the chances of the government letting us run our cars untaxed from our domestic fuel supplies???? Pretty remote at best.
Andy
However the chances of the government letting us run our cars untaxed from our domestic fuel supplies???? Pretty remote at best.
Andy
andytk said:
However the chances of the government letting us run our cars untaxed from our domestic fuel supplies???? Pretty remote at best.
Andy
The chance of the government letting us do anything in a car untaxed would be enough to make me happy.
How long before they come up with yet another stealth tax for the motorist
airtrixx said:
It seems plain to me that Labour are not really bothered about the environment but more interested in raising taxes. When petrol duty is raised it is supposedly to discourage us from polluting (but they just want our money really), when people try to use a green alternative they just fine them for that as well.
Really their not are they i never saw that comming
. Just having a Blonde moment and stating the obvious 
Graham Yesterday (18:44)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
mmm remember when diesel was used only by trucks and people with french cars and was cheaper than petrol...
oh yes then everyone started using it and the govt put the duty up so it now costs more than petrol mmm
i see a pattern...
Never!!!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
mmm remember when diesel was used only by trucks and people with french cars and was cheaper than petrol...
oh yes then everyone started using it and the govt put the duty up so it now costs more than petrol mmm
i see a pattern...
Never!!!!
Gassing Station | Motoring News | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff