RE: Road Charging Working too Well?
Monday 9th February 2004
Road Charging Working too Well?
Congestion charging and tolls suffering shortfalls
Yesterday's Sunday Times contained an article claiming that the Congestion Charge in London as worked so successfully at deterring motorists that it's going to fall short of its revenue targets.
The shortfall could affect the ability of the administrators of the scheme to repay the investment in the technology as well as slow up the investment in public transport that the system was designed to fund.
The owners of the M6 Toll Road are in a similar position. Those using the new road speak highly of it because it's nearly empty! Few trucks use it because of the charges (£10) and the car drivers who choose that route enjoy a brand new road sharing it with only a handful of cars.
In January the maximum number of vehicles which used the motorway in one day was just over 41,000. The quietest day saw just 17,800 pass through. Some urban streets easily see 10,000 vehicles a day.
Midland Expressway Ltd have the freedom to change the toll rates whenever they like so a reduction to attract traffic or an increase to recoupe more costs are both options. Their parent company in Canada operates a toll road near Toronto and that has seen six toll rises in five years.
Road charging has some way to go before the costs, profits and benefits can be correctly predicted.
Discussion
Hoo-bloody-ray for the motorists resisting the charges. This is brilliant. Perhaps when these projects fail, the Government - bless 'em - will realise that they can't simply price motorists out of their cars; they need to provide more appealing alternatives to encourage drivers to switch, not just beat them into submission.
- just what happens when a committee of no-brainers is allowed to make decisions!To answer the question above, the point of the London scheme is to cut traffic and congestion.
On revenue though the Sunday Times piece says that the congestion charge will still make £68 million net in its first year AFTER the running costs are paid. That might be less that was originally thought but it is far from a crisis.
>> Edited by GrahamG on Monday 9th February 13:59
On revenue though the Sunday Times piece says that the congestion charge will still make £68 million net in its first year AFTER the running costs are paid. That might be less that was originally thought but it is far from a crisis.
>> Edited by GrahamG on Monday 9th February 13:59
But very few freight vehicle sue the toll road - the drivers have to pay for it themselves....... Surely the best thing for congestion would've been to make it easy for the freight/thru traffic to bypass Brum, , taking more traffic, making everyone happy.
There was a report in Brum Evening Post (Mail?) on Saturday, saying that "leaked" documents showed that the Tollway owners had plans to raise charges a couple of times a year, every year for the next few years, well in excess of inflation ....
Go figure how that move will make them any money ......
There was a report in Brum Evening Post (Mail?) on Saturday, saying that "leaked" documents showed that the Tollway owners had plans to raise charges a couple of times a year, every year for the next few years, well in excess of inflation ....
Go figure how that move will make them any money ......
Fantastic - keep avoiding the use of any toll road in the UK as well as avoiding the "congestion" charge in London.
It's the only way to stop the spread of them countrywide. If that happens, we'll be trapped into paying higher and higher charges - don't fall for the old cheap at first trick.
It's the only way to stop the spread of them countrywide. If that happens, we'll be trapped into paying higher and higher charges - don't fall for the old cheap at first trick.
When I was a kid watching what I thought was going to be the future in "Captain Scarlet" I used to marvel at the pristine looking new motorways in the miniature sets and wonder why they were all empty. Now I know, they were all toll roads!!
I will aways resist sinister insidious political trojan horses like tolls etc by simply voting with my feet and not using them at any cost.
I will aways resist sinister insidious political trojan horses like tolls etc by simply voting with my feet and not using them at any cost.
britten_mark said:
I will aways resist sinister insidious political trojan horses like tolls etc by simply voting with my feet and not using them at any cost.
I prefer to simply use the M6 Toll when it will make a huge difference to my journey - and not otherwise. If all the locals keep off it because they'd have to use it every day and only the long distance through traffic uses it (because its only £3 twice a year) then everyone will be happy...except the toll road owners.
Revenues will be insignificant, long distance journeys (like mine) will be faster and the extortion of the local users won't happen.
I'd love it to go bust myself. But all that would happen is that some other private company would be allowed to buy the asset at a ridiculously cheap price who could then make money from a truly cheap toll.
What would be great is if the next administration simply nationalised the road system. Wouldn't that be a laugh...
So, the congestion charges were introduced to deter traffic from going into London, and now that it's working. But instead of being pleased with achieving their goal, they organisers are worrying that the aren't going to make enough money from it?
I smell a medium sized rodent, and it died some time ago.
Sadly, I doubt that the government and other supporters of the charging policies will realise that this is because motorists think that they already pay quite enough to use the roads thank you very much, and scrap the policies. They will probably just increase charges in an attempt to cover the shortfall. And then act surprised if that doesn't work either.
I smell a medium sized rodent, and it died some time ago.
Sadly, I doubt that the government and other supporters of the charging policies will realise that this is because motorists think that they already pay quite enough to use the roads thank you very much, and scrap the policies. They will probably just increase charges in an attempt to cover the shortfall. And then act surprised if that doesn't work either.
flooritforever said:
So, the congestion charges were introduced to deter traffic from going into London, and now that it's working. But instead of being pleased with achieving their goal, they organisers are worrying that the aren't going to make enough money from it?
I smell a medium sized rodent, and it died some time ago.
Sadly, I doubt that the government and other supporters of the charging policies will realise that this is because motorists think that they already pay quite enough to use the roads thank you very much, and scrap the policies. They will probably just increase charges in an attempt to cover the shortfall. And then act surprised if that doesn't work either.
I can't vouch for the M6 toll road, but in the case of the central london congestion charging it is the total removal of traffic that they wanted in the first place. There might be revenue involved and they might push the charges up but that just makes the system even more effective
it is a very difficult thing to get right - i did a group project at university which main was to improve the flow of traffic in and around Birmigham. the outcomes included a toll system for the city centre (although repayment costs were tiny compared to London's system) but did include major network investments in the inner ringroad, the motorway network, park and ride systems AND the train network. none of which Livingstone has yet managed to figure out.
Well, well, well. M6 toll road virt empty. Congestion charging flop where revenue is concerned.
My response.
HA BLOODY HA.
We need a sea change in this country - let some people with some b.....y common sense take over and LISTEN to what people actually want.
Our village in Oxfordshire (the worst road engineers in the UK rule here!!) voted against humps and chicanes but got over-ruled. A test chicane was implimented at the beginning of January and in the first week it was demolished when a car ran directly into it, smashed the signs and sump oil everywhere. Traffic lights were then implimented until they realised both were on red at same time and one side the new sign was giving the same instruction as the opposing sign (fortunately no one was killed!). Then they rebuilt the chicane with several wooden posts (this is all within a month!!!). Then last week a car was totally imbedded between all posts - the car was removed within half an hour by the authorities but the chicane remains in pieces with no signs except one put up by a villager, it says, amusingly, DANGER! Safety Road Measure Ahead.
Guess how many accidents there had been at this point previously? Yeah, none! Now 2 cars written off in a month, could easily have been 2 people killed. Waste of money and time. Experts...
My response.
HA BLOODY HA.
We need a sea change in this country - let some people with some b.....y common sense take over and LISTEN to what people actually want.
Our village in Oxfordshire (the worst road engineers in the UK rule here!!) voted against humps and chicanes but got over-ruled. A test chicane was implimented at the beginning of January and in the first week it was demolished when a car ran directly into it, smashed the signs and sump oil everywhere. Traffic lights were then implimented until they realised both were on red at same time and one side the new sign was giving the same instruction as the opposing sign (fortunately no one was killed!). Then they rebuilt the chicane with several wooden posts (this is all within a month!!!). Then last week a car was totally imbedded between all posts - the car was removed within half an hour by the authorities but the chicane remains in pieces with no signs except one put up by a villager, it says, amusingly, DANGER! Safety Road Measure Ahead.
Guess how many accidents there had been at this point previously? Yeah, none! Now 2 cars written off in a month, could easily have been 2 people killed. Waste of money and time. Experts...
james_j said:
Fantastic - keep avoiding the use of any toll road in the UK as well as avoiding the "congestion" charge in London.
It's the only way to stop the spread of them countrywide. If that happens, we'll be trapped into paying higher and higher charges - don't fall for the old cheap at first trick.
Trouble is, if everyone avoids the congestion charging zone it will be seen as a success, as traffic will go down. They won't meet their targets and no money will go into public transport (like that was ever the idea), but Begg and his cronies will be jumping up and down marvelling at how effective the scheme was, at which point it gets rolled out nationwide...
GrahamG said:
To answer the question above, the point of the London scheme is to cut traffic and congestion.
On revenue though the Sunday Times piece says that the congestion charge will still make £68 million net in its first year AFTER the running costs are paid. That might be less that was originally thought but it is far from a crisis.
>> Edited by GrahamG on Monday 9th February 13:59
Does this include paying off the £80 million or so it cost to install the infrastructure in the first place and not included in the daily running costs.
dandarez said:
Guess how many accidents there had been at this point previously? Yeah, none! Now 2 cars written off in a month, could easily have been 2 people killed. Waste of money and time. Experts...
ACCIDENT BLACKSPOT Get that GATSO in there pronto.
>> Edited by swilly on Tuesday 10th February 14:48
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