RE: More Dumped Cars
Monday 16th February 2004
More Dumped Cars
Stricter disposal rules likely to see more apathy
New rules imposing stringent standards on vehicle recyclers and making the last owner responsible for costs could make Britain's abandoned car problem much worse, according to the latest research by European Metal Recycling.
European rules on the disposal of defunct vehicles, expected to be enforced in the United Kingdom this year, will require dismantlers and recyclers to invest in specialist equipment to drain the fluids from vehicles, remove specified parts and ensure the last owner receives a certificate of destruction.
In a statement released last week, the Department of Trade and Industry predicted a huge decline in the number of facilities continuing to take vehicles and properly equipped to meet the new standards - from 4,000 to 1,750 outlets - suggesting the last owner may have to travel further to dispose of a car.
The Department also indicated that consumers needing to dispose of old cars over the next three years may be expected to pay up to GBP30 to meet the new treatment standards and believes it would not be unreasonable for people to travel up to 10 miles in the future.
Graeme Carus, director of business development at European Metal Recycling, said: "Operators meeting the requirements of the legislation have no choice but to look to the last owner to pay, or at least contribute toward, the costs of disposal. It's clear we need to be paid for the service and treatment standards must be properly enforced. "
He also pointed to the findings of a recent MORI survey, in which 24% of respondents from lower income households - the segment of the population most likely to own defunct vehicles - indicated that they were not prepared to pay the costs of disposal.
The research also revealed a widespread concern among the British public that the new laws may lead to more abandoned vehicles. Given a conservative estimate that a £20 charge may be levied, a significant 74% of respondents thought more vehicles would be abandoned, with 40% predicting a major increase in the number of vehicles littering Britain's streets.
Discussion
Oh come on, how hard is this problem to solve permanently ?
Take the 30 quid they need to fund recycling the car and add it to the cost we pay when first registering the car. No one who can afford to buy a new car is even going to notice the extra cost. Now scrapyards can accept scrap cars for free, therefore less dumped cars. See, how hard was that ?
But, we can do better than that. Take an extra 30 or 40 quid when the car is registered and use it to fund a free recovery scheme for dumped cars. Then the public can just phone an 0870 number when they see a dumped car. The scheme can deal with keeping track on how long the car has been dumped and then collect it when they are legally allowed to. Anyone wanting to dump a car could just call the number and get it collected for free. No more incentive to dump cars.
When manufacturers get the act together more the scheme could then start returning the cars direct to the people who made them. Which would then give them more incentive to build in recyclablity.
How hard can it be ? Why can't government think about these things ?
Take the 30 quid they need to fund recycling the car and add it to the cost we pay when first registering the car. No one who can afford to buy a new car is even going to notice the extra cost. Now scrapyards can accept scrap cars for free, therefore less dumped cars. See, how hard was that ?
But, we can do better than that. Take an extra 30 or 40 quid when the car is registered and use it to fund a free recovery scheme for dumped cars. Then the public can just phone an 0870 number when they see a dumped car. The scheme can deal with keeping track on how long the car has been dumped and then collect it when they are legally allowed to. Anyone wanting to dump a car could just call the number and get it collected for free. No more incentive to dump cars.
When manufacturers get the act together more the scheme could then start returning the cars direct to the people who made them. Which would then give them more incentive to build in recyclablity.
How hard can it be ? Why can't government think about these things ?
The government never consider cause and effect..
on a quiote drive on sunday, the number of abandoned fridges littering a country road was unbelievable...
why, well the government decided on stricter disposal rules...
Car are the same... and who pays the cost.. we all do as the local council has to collect them and pay through the nose to contractors. one council was paying almost 1000 quid a time to collect old cars dumped on the road...
on a quiote drive on sunday, the number of abandoned fridges littering a country road was unbelievable...
why, well the government decided on stricter disposal rules...
Car are the same... and who pays the cost.. we all do as the local council has to collect them and pay through the nose to contractors. one council was paying almost 1000 quid a time to collect old cars dumped on the road...
A bit of a no-brainer this one. There is a reason that I see a few dumped cars each week on my journey to work. It costs money to get them scrapped here, and the folks that run 20 year old Datsuns etc. aren't the type to waste cash, they would rather remove the plates and ditch the car at the roadside...
And to think I was actually paid £30 for my old Sierra with a siezed engine a good few years back
And to think I was actually paid £30 for my old Sierra with a siezed engine a good few years back
zax said:
folks that run 20 year old Datsuns etc. aren't the type to waste cash, they would rather remove the plates and ditch the car at the roadside...
I drive a C reg Cavalier CDi Auto which I got free (with 6 months mot and 2 months tax). If I decide to scrap it, I will remove all saleable parts and Flog them on Ebay or www.mk2cav.com or Cav Web and then I will get my angle grinder and cut it into small bits and post them into the can recycling bin at Tesco.
Either that or I'll put a free ad in Tesco and sell it to a bloke with a false name and address, sending the V5 to swansea. The Car will be clamped the following week in Tesco's car park and I'll deny all knowledge of it as I've sent the document to swansea !!!
Graham said:
The government never consider cause and effect..
on a quiote drive on sunday, the number of abandoned fridges littering a country road was unbelievable...
why, well the government decided on stricter disposal rules...
Ah yes .. the fridge mountain ... a monument to govt incompetence and inaction. The mountains of second hand fridges that have been stacked up round Britain since January will cost the taxpayer £40m to deal with - an entirely unnecessary expense caused by government incompetence. New rules by the European commission on the disposal of fridges which meant foam containing CFCs had to be stripped out to protect the ozone layer, were not understood or clarified by civil servants and ministers were kept in the dark about the consequences. British officials failed to understand the issue when other countries correctly implemented it immediately.
They also failed to spot that the regulation stopped the industry exporting second hand fridges to the developing world, adding significantly to the disused fridge mountain. So not only do we have a fridge mountain but the government managed to destroy a perfectly profitable industry as well.
Can't wait for the similar regulations applying to all electrical goods ....
>> Edited by The Wiz on Monday 16th February 12:42
jacko lah said:
folks that run 20 year old Datsuns etc. aren't the type to waste cash, they would rather remove the plates and ditch the car at the roadside...
I drive a C reg Cavalier CDi Auto which I got free (with 6 months mot and 2 months tax). If I decide to scrap it, I will remove all saleable parts and Flog them on Ebay or www.mk2cav.com or Cav Web and then I will get my angle grinder and cut it into small bits and post them into the can recycling bin at Tesco.
Either that or I'll put a free ad in Tesco and sell it to a bloke with a false name and address, sending the V5 to swansea. The Car will be clamped the following week in Tesco's car park and I'll deny all knowledge of it as I've sent the document to swansea !!!
these rules just pander to built-in obsolescence and cheap disposability. We should be encouraging people to keep cars running, salvage usable parts and so on, rather that getting won over by the 'new model year' rubbish that adverts for cars and loans
spoon-feed us with. When my cars break down I'm going to sell them as doners in kit car magazine. To a Brussels bureaucrat with a hired Mercedes, cars are nothing more than disposable items. To those in the know, they're a mountain of spare parts, going to waste.
The £30 on the price of a new car is fine and if manufacturers started charging it now, we'll all be able to bin our scappers in 20 years time at no cost. Unfortunately, the cars that are out there now haven't had their £30 paid so this is what the government are up against. There was talk of each manufacturer building up a fund to pay for their own cars but that wasn't popular with manufacturers who had a shrinking market share (e.g. Austin Rover /Leyland) because they would have had to finance a relatively large number of scrappers out of a small number of new cars. Selling them as donor cars is another great idea but given the size of the kit car industry, I think supply will outstrip demand somewhat! - especially for cars that nobody uses to make kits out of! The Directive encourages the "re-use" of components wherever possible but these days, so few people go to scrapyards for spares that I can see little future in that, unfortunately.
The £30 on the price of a new car is fine and if manufacturers started charging it now, we'll all be able to bin our scappers in 20 years time at no cost. Unfortunately, the cars that are out there now haven't had their £30 paid so this is what the government are up against.
Yes, but the number of cars being scrapped each year must be fairly similar to the number of cars being scrapped each year. So the payments for this year's registered cars would pay for this year's scrapped cars. So it would work fine.
Yes, but the number of cars being scrapped each year must be fairly similar to the number of cars being scrapped each year. So the payments for this year's registered cars would pay for this year's scrapped cars. So it would work fine.
With the amount of money that each car is responsible for directly contributing the the government's coffers over its lifetime (the car's that is, not the government), why can't the treasury stump up the £30 and be done with it? 
God knows they waste enough money elsewhere - it'd make a nice chance for them to spend some wisely for once!
God knows they waste enough money elsewhere - it'd make a nice chance for them to spend some wisely for once!
Disposed of a wrecked car this afternoon. Local dismantler collected it from my drive for £20 (though I had to remove the wheels...can't dispose of tyres, he said), wheels & tyres went to nearby household waste site.
N.E.Way, I thought that £20 collection fee was very reasonable, particularly when he called me before he arrived (as I had asked)...I was well pleased.
So if it's that easy and cheap to dispose of a car properly, (£20 for collection - and nuthin if I took it to the scrap yard myself) what point is there to dumping the thing...unless it costs an arm & a leg in the cities.
>> Edited by wolosp on Tuesday 17th February 18:56
N.E.Way, I thought that £20 collection fee was very reasonable, particularly when he called me before he arrived (as I had asked)...I was well pleased.
So if it's that easy and cheap to dispose of a car properly, (£20 for collection - and nuthin if I took it to the scrap yard myself) what point is there to dumping the thing...unless it costs an arm & a leg in the cities.
>> Edited by wolosp on Tuesday 17th February 18:56
andynormancx said:
Yes, but the number of cars being scrapped each year must be fairly similar to the number of cars being scrapped each year. So the payments for this year's registered cars would pay for this year's scrapped cars. So it would work fine.
I think you meant "manufactured" each year? I've a feeling that the current cars will be more expensive to scrap because they weren't designed to be re-cycled. I have a 12 year old big saloon with an aircon system full of a nasty refrigerant that's now banned. It (should!) require special handling measures when scrapped and the initial set-up costs to get the facilities up to scratch will have to be found from somewhere...
Seems to me that a good comprimise could be made.
Charge 1 pound every year when the car is registered.
New cars that are easier to dispose of because of green friendly materials, high demand for their newish parts, and scarcity from the scrap yards would only have a few pounds in the disposal-bank.
Older cars (the ones that need to be disposed of - not classics) will have more in the disposal-bank for the cost to take care of difficult to dispose of materials and chemicals and the lack of breaking potential.
Charge 1 pound every year when the car is registered.
New cars that are easier to dispose of because of green friendly materials, high demand for their newish parts, and scarcity from the scrap yards would only have a few pounds in the disposal-bank.
Older cars (the ones that need to be disposed of - not classics) will have more in the disposal-bank for the cost to take care of difficult to dispose of materials and chemicals and the lack of breaking potential.
I used to work for a salvage company working in this field and as usual it's a half the story situation.
The market is dropping out of low value cars, mainly due to the "We'll give you £1000 on your trade in and charge you 25% apr" so the incentive to buy dross is not there. A baled car is only going to get you around thhe £30 if your lucky from a metal recycler.
Depolluting a vehicle is not a big job, but you need an operation which is large enough to be able to collect/store and process the vehicles. Part of the problem is a "we don't want it on our doorstep" so finding a suitable site for a recycling site is a hugh hurdle in itself.
Some councils already have a system set up which does this and it cost around £30 a vehicle. If you can get the vehicle to the site it will only cost a fiver including all the paper work.
Where the big charges come in is specialist recovery, such aas getting a vehicle out of a canal.
The market is dropping out of low value cars, mainly due to the "We'll give you £1000 on your trade in and charge you 25% apr" so the incentive to buy dross is not there. A baled car is only going to get you around thhe £30 if your lucky from a metal recycler.
Depolluting a vehicle is not a big job, but you need an operation which is large enough to be able to collect/store and process the vehicles. Part of the problem is a "we don't want it on our doorstep" so finding a suitable site for a recycling site is a hugh hurdle in itself.
Some councils already have a system set up which does this and it cost around £30 a vehicle. If you can get the vehicle to the site it will only cost a fiver including all the paper work.
Where the big charges come in is specialist recovery, such aas getting a vehicle out of a canal.
I may have missed something here, but given the cost to the council (i.e. us) of collecting dumped cars, would it not be more sensible for the government to pay the last owner, say £30, to return the car to the scrap dealer? This would be cheaper. It sounds too simple, there must be a flaw somewhere.
from what ive heard lately the price of scrap has gone up quite a bit and weve been warned that now unscrupulous scrappies are collecting as many free/paid for disposal and abandoned cars as they can,even a couple of classic ford owners have even had their legal cars taken by these feckers.
keep your eyes on your pride and joy.....it may go walkies!
keep your eyes on your pride and joy.....it may go walkies!
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