RE: VW To Seat: Turn Around Or Be Shut Down
Tuesday 18th May 2010
Volkswagen has given its loss-making Seat subsidiary an ultimatum: five years to turn itself around or VW will pull the plug on the Spanish brand.
VW To Seat: Turn Around Or Be Shut Down
Seat gets five-year ultimatum from parent company
Seat lost £95.6m in the first quarter of 2010. Now, in the year the comapny celebrates its 60th birthday, Seat has been given just five years of fresh products to help stop the haemorrhaging of cash.
"This is the last attempt for Seat as a brand, it would not be sensible to view things differently," Seat's CEO, James Muir, told Bloomberg. "If one would want to get rid of Seat, one would have to give the other party money to take it."
Muir - whose previous role was as boss of Mazda Europe - plans to help save Seat by expanding the brand's range. Crucially, he also wants to focus on the growth of the brand outside its domestic Spanish market.
The second part of Muir's turnaround scheme - becoming less reliant on the Spanish market - could prove to be vitally important, especially as Spain is in serious danger of falling prey to the same financial crisis currently crippling Greece.
"It will be difficult to turn Seat around," an analyst from M.M. Warburg in Hamburg told Bloomberg. "Most of their sales stem from southern Europe where the crisis has hit small-car makers particularly hard."
Discussion
Surely there's not a big enough market for more R models though? Obviously on PH people will prefer the sporting models but generally they dont account for an awful lot of the sales do they? Would be interesting to see the figures though if anyone can dig them up.
Another factor is at the end of the day most people would rather pay for the Golf badge thats so adored in the UK
Another factor is at the end of the day most people would rather pay for the Golf badge thats so adored in the UK
My girlfriend just brought a new ibiza and although a nice car to drive could be better built, and what is it with all the plastic the new leon dashboard is so awful. They dont offer a bargin anymore a few years back the leon cupra was basically a s3 for two thirds of the price. If Seat do the same again they will be fine.
I don't get why VAG still support SEAT (well they might not for much longer) surely they're just cannibalising their own sales.
Also the destinction between the 4 main brands isn't as black and white as it used to be, VW have raised their game and the golf is the same price as the A3, Skoda are in the process of raising their game and trying to be a bit more prestige, Seat don't really seem to get the best of anything VAG have to offer and their Cupra R models have fallen short of other VAG contemporaries in recent years. which sucks as SEAT are probably the best looking VAG cars.
I hope SEAT survives to produce some small sport focussed cars as they're the most distinctly un german VAG brand, which has got to be good hasn't it?
Also the destinction between the 4 main brands isn't as black and white as it used to be, VW have raised their game and the golf is the same price as the A3, Skoda are in the process of raising their game and trying to be a bit more prestige, Seat don't really seem to get the best of anything VAG have to offer and their Cupra R models have fallen short of other VAG contemporaries in recent years. which sucks as SEAT are probably the best looking VAG cars.
I hope SEAT survives to produce some small sport focussed cars as they're the most distinctly un german VAG brand, which has got to be good hasn't it?
r models are a very small percentage of sales, well they were when i used to sell them!
although they were still quite popular and good value for money (im biased i know!)
would be a shame too see the brand get sold off, as it has so much potential.
will never forget running out of talent on the altea xl fourwheel drive thingy launch and sticking one in a farmers ploughed field, it drove out of there with no problem though!
i still miss my leon cupra demo, i miss my fuel card more though!
although they were still quite popular and good value for money (im biased i know!)
would be a shame too see the brand get sold off, as it has so much potential.
will never forget running out of talent on the altea xl fourwheel drive thingy launch and sticking one in a farmers ploughed field, it drove out of there with no problem though!
i still miss my leon cupra demo, i miss my fuel card more though!
They need to sort the dealers out - perhaps they've been trying as there are some big areas not covered by franchised dealers, and that never going to help sales.
We have an Ibiza in the family and, looking at the SEAT forums, the dealers are more despised than even BMW or Mercedes dealers are on those marque forums, and that's saying something.
I helped my daughter buy a new Ibiza, thinking it would be reliable etc. SEAT UK couldn't give a toss that it's broken down 4 times in 4 years and they think it's perfectly acceptable for it to miserabably fail its MOT at 4 yrs/34K miles. Ridiculous.
We have an Ibiza in the family and, looking at the SEAT forums, the dealers are more despised than even BMW or Mercedes dealers are on those marque forums, and that's saying something.
I helped my daughter buy a new Ibiza, thinking it would be reliable etc. SEAT UK couldn't give a toss that it's broken down 4 times in 4 years and they think it's perfectly acceptable for it to miserabably fail its MOT at 4 yrs/34K miles. Ridiculous.
Would be a shame to see seat go to waste, they used to make some cracking cars, the old leon cupra was brilliant, and the new ones are just as good! Much better looking than a Golf or an A3..
Maybe a back to basics approach is needed, a small cheap city car or a small 2 seat sports car...?
They have a sporting back ground with WRC and WTCC championships behind them... How many manufactures can boast that?
Maybe a back to basics approach is needed, a small cheap city car or a small 2 seat sports car...?
They have a sporting back ground with WRC and WTCC championships behind them... How many manufactures can boast that?
I couldn't agree more, Seat is supposed to be the sporty arm of VAG yet they keep all the best/powerful engines for themselves. The 1.4 TSi engines have only just started appearing in Seat's along with the common rail diesels.
The quality has also taken a back seat (no pun intended) compared to other VAG products including Skoda. I recently changed from a Mk1 Leon Cupra and the main reason I didn't get a Mk2 Cupra was the interior.
The Cupra range was actually very succesful for Seat, I remember reading in 2002 (when I got my Leon Cupra) that over 25% of all Leon's sold where the Cupra and that was prior to the Cupra R being released.
The quality has also taken a back seat (no pun intended) compared to other VAG products including Skoda. I recently changed from a Mk1 Leon Cupra and the main reason I didn't get a Mk2 Cupra was the interior.
The Cupra range was actually very succesful for Seat, I remember reading in 2002 (when I got my Leon Cupra) that over 25% of all Leon's sold where the Cupra and that was prior to the Cupra R being released.
Well well well, what a surprise!
VAG has 4 companies doing exactly the same thing but with different badges.
Why keep all 4?
IMO the only way for SEAT to survive is to start making something completelly different from VW/Audi (ie. not simply repackaging existing cars in different exterior). But it looks like that won't happen as the germans these days are big fans of doning many things that are actually the same.
Have you seen new 5 series? It looks just like 3 series. And A4/A6/A8 all look the same just differ in size. Where's the sense in that?
VAG has 4 companies doing exactly the same thing but with different badges.
Why keep all 4?
IMO the only way for SEAT to survive is to start making something completelly different from VW/Audi (ie. not simply repackaging existing cars in different exterior). But it looks like that won't happen as the germans these days are big fans of doning many things that are actually the same.
Have you seen new 5 series? It looks just like 3 series. And A4/A6/A8 all look the same just differ in size. Where's the sense in that?
As others have said, the decent value proposition offered by the Seats of a few years ago, married with their reasonable good looks, meant they were at least relevant.
With the closing of any price differential, the general hideousness of their recent styling (IMHO) and the fact that no-one can really answer 'What is a Seat?' means they are rapidly becoming an irrelevance.
An 05/06 Leon Cupra R on those exceedingly tasty 10 spoke rims is still one of the best looking hatches of recent years, the current one is a swoopy dogs dinner of an affair - no wonder people prefer Focus STs, Sciroccos etc.
If I were VW I would have put up the For Sale signs as soon as the Porsche deal was done with a view to closing it down in 5 years from then. Then you'd have a Skoda that doesn't have to worry about treading on Seat's toes adequately filling out the bottom end of the market, Audi for the flashy thrusters, Porsche/Bentley/Lamborghini for the seriously minted, VW for everyone else.
Why do they need a Seat brand? They can keep production on in Spain if it is economically desirable without hanging onto the Seat brand, a brand that no-one should get too sentimental about; it was only 25 years ago they were mediocre Fiats after all and a few hot hatches in 15 years doesn't mean we should get all weepy eyed about a badge.
With the closing of any price differential, the general hideousness of their recent styling (IMHO) and the fact that no-one can really answer 'What is a Seat?' means they are rapidly becoming an irrelevance.
An 05/06 Leon Cupra R on those exceedingly tasty 10 spoke rims is still one of the best looking hatches of recent years, the current one is a swoopy dogs dinner of an affair - no wonder people prefer Focus STs, Sciroccos etc.
If I were VW I would have put up the For Sale signs as soon as the Porsche deal was done with a view to closing it down in 5 years from then. Then you'd have a Skoda that doesn't have to worry about treading on Seat's toes adequately filling out the bottom end of the market, Audi for the flashy thrusters, Porsche/Bentley/Lamborghini for the seriously minted, VW for everyone else.
Why do they need a Seat brand? They can keep production on in Spain if it is economically desirable without hanging onto the Seat brand, a brand that no-one should get too sentimental about; it was only 25 years ago they were mediocre Fiats after all and a few hot hatches in 15 years doesn't mean we should get all weepy eyed about a badge.
Edited by loudlashadjuster on Tuesday 18th May 12:04
I had a Cupra Mk1 as a company car and it was great - when I came to spending my own money, I almost bought a new Leon FR for a bargain price as they were struggling to sell them, but I just could not bring myself to do it as the interior felt so cheap and there were reports on the forums about creaking and rattling bits. In the end I bought a 7 month old Golf GTi for the same money and it was much nicer interior and a much better investment, losing only £1k in 18months/10k miles.
My dad also had an diesel Altea which wasn't too bad but he never really got along with it.
I don't think VAG know how to position SEAT around all their other brands.
Does this mean I can get a dirt cheap brand new SEAT though?
My dad also had an diesel Altea which wasn't too bad but he never really got along with it.
I don't think VAG know how to position SEAT around all their other brands.
Does this mean I can get a dirt cheap brand new SEAT though?
Need a decent product range tbh. The current has a very loose brand image. Too many MPV style cars and not enough "sporty." I would invest my time in the following.
Next gen leon
5 door
3 door with coupe styling hints like many current 3 door hatchbacks
convertable
also the altea and altea freetrack models
BIN the current toledo and maybe replace with a leon saloon for appropriate markets when the companies in better stead.
Finally get the tribu concept out. This would help them to get the manufactering of the Audi Q3 underway at the spanish plant aswell as it's the same platform.
Get a SEAT badge on the vw blue sports and price it £500 below the MX-5 spec for spec. Then whack in the current leon cupra r engine it just for kicks.
I feel I should stop here before I start trying to write my own 5 year plan for SEAT.
Next gen leon
5 door
3 door with coupe styling hints like many current 3 door hatchbacks
convertable
also the altea and altea freetrack models
BIN the current toledo and maybe replace with a leon saloon for appropriate markets when the companies in better stead.
Finally get the tribu concept out. This would help them to get the manufactering of the Audi Q3 underway at the spanish plant aswell as it's the same platform.
Get a SEAT badge on the vw blue sports and price it £500 below the MX-5 spec for spec. Then whack in the current leon cupra r engine it just for kicks.
I feel I should stop here before I start trying to write my own 5 year plan for SEAT.
To me seat is the best of the VAG brand (apart from the supercar manufacturers obviously), they look far more interesting than their rivals, the new ibiza blows the mini golf (polo) out of the water when it comes to looks.
I am biased however as i own an ibiza, but when i was looking to buy my first car i looked at litteraly every supermini and not one appealed to me more than the ibiza, and since then it hasnt missed a heart beat and the interior is pleasent for a just above base model! the equipment far surpasses its competition as well.
I am biased however as i own an ibiza, but when i was looking to buy my first car i looked at litteraly every supermini and not one appealed to me more than the ibiza, and since then it hasnt missed a heart beat and the interior is pleasent for a just above base model! the equipment far surpasses its competition as well.
adycav said:
I'm not surprised.
SEAT used to provide accomplished sporty/hot hatches that were faster, better equipped and much cheaper than the VW opposition (e.g. the old Leon Cupra R).
Now they seem to make too many bland people carriers and the like.
Spot on. I thought they were supposed to be a sporty brand but all I see now is different sizes of people carriers. The Toledo was a total f*** up too. I like the new Ibiza though.SEAT used to provide accomplished sporty/hot hatches that were faster, better equipped and much cheaper than the VW opposition (e.g. the old Leon Cupra R).
Now they seem to make too many bland people carriers and the like.
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