RE: L Drivers Scared
Tuesday 16th March 2004
L Drivers Scared
New motorists reckon they're not up to the job
Newbie motorist s have criticised the learner driver regime for putting them on the roads with too little training.
Four in five young drivers told Autoglass researchers they reckon they're a danger to other road users despite having passed their test! And six in ten claim they were trained just to pass the test rather than drive safely.
They say they're horrified by some of the on-the-road experiences the test hasn't prepared them for and are calling for driving lessons and tests to include motorway and night driving and handling dangerous situations.
The Autoglass report reveals that today's L-drivers only drive the equivalent of two round trips between London and Birmingham before passing their test. Four in ten have less than five hours practice without their instructor.
Once they have passed, seven in ten describe driving alone as nerve-wracking. Despite this, over half admit they speed, two in five say they can't judge situations and a third say their driving is erratic.
Four in five say they're a risk to themselves, their passengers and other drivers. And three-quarters say they're a risk to pedestrians.
Discussion
Don said:
Nope. You weren't.
It also shows however far the powers may think we've come in the last few years we are still letting down our youngsters when it comes to driver training.
More training and a more complete test essential.
Yes, this confirm my feelings about the situation.
I thought the changes and 'improvements' to the driving test were supposed to be improving the quality of new drivers, but it does not seem to be working.
In my view attitude and general approach are the key to this, followed of course by all the practical skills to ensure that the right attitude is translated into safe driving.
We have been doing far too much dumbing down, rather than truly raising the standard.
The learning process needs to be maintained - for all of us.
Best wishes all.
Dave.
This sort of thing is exactly why I took Pass Plus. Those extra 6 hours made a hell of a difference to my confidence.
And my instructor was exactly right. Straight after my test he said to me: 'Right, you've passed your test. Now you learn to drive.'
And it's true. The lessons and test do little to show you what it's really like on the road.
And my instructor was exactly right. Straight after my test he said to me: 'Right, you've passed your test. Now you learn to drive.'
And it's true. The lessons and test do little to show you what it's really like on the road.
I'd be tempted to take a slightly more positive view on the survey results...
60% of new drivers realise they need more education - make the further driving education more attractive both in social and financial terms and there might be more take up of things like Pass Plus as flooritforever has said, or IAM.
Unfortunately, the cost/benefit doesn't seem all that good for learner drivers though - how much does Pass Plus cost? How much does it save you on insurance?
How about the Scameraships spend some of their ill gotten gains on subsidising Pass Plus instruction and testing fees?
The other way to look at it of course, is that 40% of new drivers don't consider themselves not to be a danger to other road users. I'm not so sure that would be the conclusion that other road users would draw of them. Getting this 40% to take extra tuition will be the real challenge.
60% of new drivers realise they need more education - make the further driving education more attractive both in social and financial terms and there might be more take up of things like Pass Plus as flooritforever has said, or IAM.
Unfortunately, the cost/benefit doesn't seem all that good for learner drivers though - how much does Pass Plus cost? How much does it save you on insurance?
How about the Scameraships spend some of their ill gotten gains on subsidising Pass Plus instruction and testing fees?
The other way to look at it of course, is that 40% of new drivers don't consider themselves not to be a danger to other road users. I'm not so sure that would be the conclusion that other road users would draw of them. Getting this 40% to take extra tuition will be the real challenge.
flooritforever said:
And my instructor was exactly right. Straight after my test he said to me: 'Right, you've passed your test. Now you learn to drive.'
Funny, that. My experience was the exact opposite.
I spent many many hours with my dad learning to drive. Once that was out of the way, I had a series of BSM lessons in order to learn how to pass the test
I can't see this being very practical these days, though, as the insurance cost alone would be crippling!
Maybe it's time we looked at what other countries do. I believe Norway and other Scandinavian countries have a module stucture that includes driving on ice (probably wise given their weather) along with motorway and night driving. I think it costs around £800 to do all the individual courses and only then do you get a licence.
Very good thing . . . In The Netherlands we have a system for motorbikers that limits the choice of displacement when inexperienced. A starter can choose to 400 cc, after a few years 600 cc etc.
This would do good for young auto drivers. A lot of 18 year olds get the MK2 GTI and race the fwd 150 PS+ thingies around. Some get scared, some get incompetend in the wrong situation . . . It takes alot of miles to get confindence in urself and fellow wheels. It takes a lifetime learnig . . .
This would do good for young auto drivers. A lot of 18 year olds get the MK2 GTI and race the fwd 150 PS+ thingies around. Some get scared, some get incompetend in the wrong situation . . . It takes alot of miles to get confindence in urself and fellow wheels. It takes a lifetime learnig . . .
I passed my Test 3 years ago, did my LGV test last year. The LGV test was no different, except there was no parallel park (even though I have had to do this since), the emergency stop, sorry, the Controlled Stop is done in the Test centre. There is a Reverse to a loading bay. Then a lovely jaunt about and back to the test centre.
Anyway, back to cars.
The Driving Test and Instruction system fails Learners in several ways.
1) ADI fail Learners in that they ONLY teach them to pass a test. A Driving INstructor is someone who should teach a person to drive. At the moment they are more like a Test Coach.
2) The Current driving test is pathetic. No Night Driving, No Motorway driving, you'll go on a Dual Carridgeway if you lucky. Since when did you drive down a road at 30mph not knowing which turning your taking. My Examiner told me to take the next left when I was too close to it to negotiate it safely, so drove past it which she wasn't happy about.
3) Pass Plus is a cost Option. While I think it should stay an Option, it shouldn't cost anything to do it, it should be funded by the DSA if the Candidate undertakes PP within 6 months of passing their test. PP is basically 6 hours in which your INstructor (well it was in my case anyway) assess you to see if you are a better driver than you were on the day you passed your test, there is no instruction during it, though strangely it includes everything you are not taught when learning, Motorway, night time etc
For some weeks now I have been working on an Outline for a new test which Should address all the current problems. The instruction needs to be such that the candidate is taught to Drive rather than to pass the test. Too many variables etc.
Anyway, back to cars.
The Driving Test and Instruction system fails Learners in several ways.
1) ADI fail Learners in that they ONLY teach them to pass a test. A Driving INstructor is someone who should teach a person to drive. At the moment they are more like a Test Coach.
2) The Current driving test is pathetic. No Night Driving, No Motorway driving, you'll go on a Dual Carridgeway if you lucky. Since when did you drive down a road at 30mph not knowing which turning your taking. My Examiner told me to take the next left when I was too close to it to negotiate it safely, so drove past it which she wasn't happy about.
3) Pass Plus is a cost Option. While I think it should stay an Option, it shouldn't cost anything to do it, it should be funded by the DSA if the Candidate undertakes PP within 6 months of passing their test. PP is basically 6 hours in which your INstructor (well it was in my case anyway) assess you to see if you are a better driver than you were on the day you passed your test, there is no instruction during it, though strangely it includes everything you are not taught when learning, Motorway, night time etc
For some weeks now I have been working on an Outline for a new test which Should address all the current problems. The instruction needs to be such that the candidate is taught to Drive rather than to pass the test. Too many variables etc.
dinkel said:
Very good thing . . . In The Netherlands we have a system for motorbikers that limits the choice of displacement when inexperienced. A starter can choose to 400 cc, after a few years 600 cc etc.
This would do good for young auto drivers. A lot of 18 year olds get the MK2 GTI and race the fwd 150 PS+ thingies around. Some get scared, some get incompetend in the wrong situation . . . It takes alot of miles to get confindence in urself and fellow wheels. It takes a lifetime learnig . . .
I disagree. Insurance is criminal for young drivers trying to drive powerful cars so there are very few about. Anyway, what does it matter how powerful a car is? All cars are dangerous if driven irresponsibly.
Frik said:
Very good thing . . . In The Netherlands we have a system for motorbikers that limits the choice of displacement when inexperienced. A starter can choose to 400 cc, after a few years 600 cc etc.
This would do good for young auto drivers. A lot of 18 year olds get the MK2 GTI and race the fwd 150 PS+ thingies around. Some get scared, some get incompetend in the wrong situation . . . It takes alot of miles to get confindence in urself and fellow wheels. It takes a lifetime learnig . . .
I disagree. Insurance is criminal for young drivers trying to drive powerful cars so there are very few about. Anyway, what does it matter how powerful a car is? All cars are dangerous if driven irresponsibly.
How come I see so much hot-hatches driven by youngsters over here then? Insurance is high first few years driving . . .
I think we have a statistical problem.
The test needs to be pitched at a certain level - it must be partly a political decision to make the standard such that the majority can pass it without TOO much effort.
Remember we have a compliance problem, too.
If the standard goes up then so does the cost of getting there. More cost will certainly equal lower compliance with driving with a licence.
So until we have better policing of the licence system we will be looking at higher numbers of morons with no licence.
And of course it is scary to drive after passing - no second observer to help you out must make a hell of a difference.
The test needs to be pitched at a certain level - it must be partly a political decision to make the standard such that the majority can pass it without TOO much effort.
Remember we have a compliance problem, too.
If the standard goes up then so does the cost of getting there. More cost will certainly equal lower compliance with driving with a licence.
So until we have better policing of the licence system we will be looking at higher numbers of morons with no licence.
And of course it is scary to drive after passing - no second observer to help you out must make a hell of a difference.
) - at least most of them acknowledge that fact, hopefully some will be prompted to gain further training.
Respect to the youngsters for having the confidence to air their concerns.
You only really start to learn to drive when you are alone in your car, having passed your test.
I think everyone must be very nervous to start out with. I'd be more worried about those that are over confident when they get through the test and feel invulnerable - a bit like those people who just come out of church on a Sunday and drive off safe in the knowledge that god is watching over them so they must be safe!
You only really start to learn to drive when you are alone in your car, having passed your test.
I think everyone must be very nervous to start out with. I'd be more worried about those that are over confident when they get through the test and feel invulnerable - a bit like those people who just come out of church on a Sunday and drive off safe in the knowledge that god is watching over them so they must be safe!
thanuk said:
I think it costs around £800 to do all the individual courses
That's unreasonable, a lot of people don't earn that much in a month.
Why's that unreasonable? When did driving become a right and not a privilege?
But, the associated problem with that, as has been commented on is that people would say "£800, not likely" and jump in their un-registered, un-insured car and carry on regardless.
LexSport said:
macbeanda said:
I think it costs around £800 to do all the individual courses
That's unreasonable, a lot of people don't earn that much in a month.
Why's that unreasonable? When did driving become a right and not a privilege?
As you know, the car is essential in our society. Public transport is not a viable option. Therefore driving has to be open to all.
When I learnt to drive I guess I was fortunate enough to have my dads company car to practice in and parents willing/stupid enough to let me drive all the time whilst I was learning.
From a personal perspective, near where I live (in Sheffield) there is a place where kids aged 14 and above can with an adult drive round a simple and slow course. For me this was a great help as once I got on the road I was much more confident in my general car control.
I also think the fact I rode a bike (cycle) from when I was 8ish (after taking my cycling proficiency test) on the roads helped me to be much more aware of traffic and general road sense....and all without a helmet as well. Although in those days people didnt drive round in 4x4's for no apparent reason (other than to take the kids to school) as everyone walked or rode to school!!
From a personal perspective, near where I live (in Sheffield) there is a place where kids aged 14 and above can with an adult drive round a simple and slow course. For me this was a great help as once I got on the road I was much more confident in my general car control.
I also think the fact I rode a bike (cycle) from when I was 8ish (after taking my cycling proficiency test) on the roads helped me to be much more aware of traffic and general road sense....and all without a helmet as well. Although in those days people didnt drive round in 4x4's for no apparent reason (other than to take the kids to school) as everyone walked or rode to school!!
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