RE: Thames Valley Camera Switch-Off Stats Misled Us
Friday 20th August 2010
The camera site in questionRemember all the media fuss last week when Thames Valley Safer Roads (sic) Partnership claimed more people were speeding after Oxfordshire cameras were switched off? Seems we may have been misled.
Thames Valley Camera Switch-Off Stats 'Misled' Us
Claim that speeding increased after switch-off was "damn lies and statistics", says councillor
The camera site in question
The Oxford Mail reported yesterday that it has managed to dig up figures which the Safer Roads (sic) Partnership had previously claimed 'were not readily to hand', and the numbers clearly show that one of the camera sites witnessed a four percent fall in offences when 'like for like' data was used. One angry local councillor was moved to use the time-worn phrase "lies, damn lies and statistics" about the widely reported piece of pro-camera propaganda released by the Partnership.
You can read the Oxford Mail article here. While we're not in possession of enough facts to comment specifically on this case, if this turns out to be the work of self-interested 'Road Safety Professionals' releasing dodgy data in the panic to save a gravy train that's being derailed by (popularly supported) budget cuts... well, we won't be surprised at all.
On the other hand, it could be a perfectly innocent mistake. Either way it all smells pretty rotten - in our humble opinion, of course. Hats off to the Oxford Mail for getting stuck in.
Discussion
I've just put an email into the Today Programme suggesting they might have been duped by a vested interest:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/contact_today/defau...
I didn't accuse the BBC at all
http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/contact_today/defau...
I didn't accuse the BBC at all
That picture is my local speed camera.
It's a long straight with 30 limit before Blenheim Palace. It's near two bus stops and surprisingly I have seen people stung by it, but it's mostly tourists from overseas. You can see it for nearly a mile in each direction, but nobody speeds down that road anyway...
It's a long straight with 30 limit before Blenheim Palace. It's near two bus stops and surprisingly I have seen people stung by it, but it's mostly tourists from overseas. You can see it for nearly a mile in each direction, but nobody speeds down that road anyway...
Oddball RS said:
What a shock, they twist the stats they produce. Hope you get wheel clamping / traffic wardens positions soon folks.
Funny you should say that - I used to work producing all the stats for a very well known council parking offence department in the UK. I quit a long time ago.Everything is driven by the cash they make - I see no difference why the scameras would be any different. They DO have targets and during the recession the gready big wigs wanted heavy analysis as to why they weren't pulling in millions like the year before. I had no sympathy - pretty much all of them "work from home" (yer right) and they finish "work" at 4pm after several coffee breaks.
They scoff at genuine hard work, run fear into the general public with threatening letters / court actions and make it all rosey to the media saying its for "safety". I can categorically tell you with my hand on my heart it isn't - its all for revenue. They don't give a flying monkey about the roads being clogged up or for public safety.
Its a HUGE cash cow. The little guys in the streets issuing tickets (often foreigners) get told they must get X amount of offences by the end of the day. If they constantly underperform they are struck off.
The white van man that sticks on fake plates and racks up over £30k worth of parking tickets alone (no joke)...they can't do anything about. Why? Because they can't track him (request from DVLA comes up with incorrect address and takes a day or so to return results). Simple. They can't tow him because he's gone by the time they get there. Yet the general public that pop into the shops get threatened with court action and everything - scare tactics.
I have no sympathy for these people. They are lazy, worthless individuals to society when we should be putting our cash and efforts into things like cancer treatments, improving NHS and so on.
I don't care what speed people are doing, I just don't want them crashing so if people are speeding past boxes who cares? Aren't they all put in places where a high proportion of the traffic is "speeding", ie where the speed limits are too low? People would only slow down for the camera anyway and carry on safely at an appropriate speed afterwards.
These SCP morons just don't get it. Despite failing to solve accidents and lying from start to end, they look like they're still at it.
Didn't they always claim they would be self-funding even without the fines because of these accidents they're preventing don't need costly cleaning up? Funny how now they're having to present an actual costed out business case based on no fine input, it suddenly doesn't add up so they're axed.
I'm really glad to see these things being straightened out after 13 years of moronic leadership.
SM
These SCP morons just don't get it. Despite failing to solve accidents and lying from start to end, they look like they're still at it.
Didn't they always claim they would be self-funding even without the fines because of these accidents they're preventing don't need costly cleaning up? Funny how now they're having to present an actual costed out business case based on no fine input, it suddenly doesn't add up so they're axed.
I'm really glad to see these things being straightened out after 13 years of moronic leadership.
SM
the saying what goes around comes around - I for one can't wait for all these idiots from the SCP to lose there jobs. For over ten years I have had to commute all over the country for work and spend more time worrying about speed cameras that actually driving! Its like living on a knife edge all the time when trying to earn an honest living and supporting your family.
I would like to see more police back on the roads in unmarked police cars on the motorways to stop idiots whom drive with no lights on when its raining, or erratic drivers, drivers whom drive up your arse at 75-80mph etc.
I would like to see more police back on the roads in unmarked police cars on the motorways to stop idiots whom drive with no lights on when its raining, or erratic drivers, drivers whom drive up your arse at 75-80mph etc.
Anubis said:
Oddball RS said:
What a shock, they twist the stats they produce. Hope you get wheel clamping / traffic wardens positions soon folks.
Funny you should say that - I used to work producing all the stats for a very well known council parking offence department in the UK. I quit a long time ago.Everything is driven by the cash they make - I see no difference why the scameras would be any different. They DO have targets and during the recession the gready big wigs wanted heavy analysis as to why they weren't pulling in millions like the year before. I had no sympathy - pretty much all of them "work from home" (yer right) and they finish "work" at 4pm after several coffee breaks.
They scoff at genuine hard work, run fear into the general public with threatening letters / court actions and make it all rosey to the media saying its for "safety". I can categorically tell you with my hand on my heart it isn't - its all for revenue. They don't give a flying monkey about the roads being clogged up or for public safety.
Its a HUGE cash cow. The little guys in the streets issuing tickets (often foreigners) get told they must get X amount of offences by the end of the day. If they constantly underperform they are struck off.
The white van man that sticks on fake plates and racks up over £30k worth of parking tickets alone (no joke)...they can't do anything about. Why? Because they can't track him (request from DVLA comes up with incorrect address and takes a day or so to return results). Simple. They can't tow him because he's gone by the time they get there. Yet the general public that pop into the shops get threatened with court action and everything - scare tactics.
I have no sympathy for these people. They are lazy, worthless individuals to society when we should be putting our cash and efforts into things like cancer treatments, improving NHS and so on.
SM
supermono said:
Anubis said:
Oddball RS said:
What a shock, they twist the stats they produce. Hope you get wheel clamping / traffic wardens positions soon folks.
Funny you should say that - I used to work producing all the stats for a very well known council parking offence department in the UK. I quit a long time ago.Everything is driven by the cash they make - I see no difference why the scameras would be any different. They DO have targets and during the recession the gready big wigs wanted heavy analysis as to why they weren't pulling in millions like the year before. I had no sympathy - pretty much all of them "work from home" (yer right) and they finish "work" at 4pm after several coffee breaks.
They scoff at genuine hard work, run fear into the general public with threatening letters / court actions and make it all rosey to the media saying its for "safety". I can categorically tell you with my hand on my heart it isn't - its all for revenue. They don't give a flying monkey about the roads being clogged up or for public safety.
Its a HUGE cash cow. The little guys in the streets issuing tickets (often foreigners) get told they must get X amount of offences by the end of the day. If they constantly underperform they are struck off.
The white van man that sticks on fake plates and racks up over £30k worth of parking tickets alone (no joke)...they can't do anything about. Why? Because they can't track him (request from DVLA comes up with incorrect address and takes a day or so to return results). Simple. They can't tow him because he's gone by the time they get there. Yet the general public that pop into the shops get threatened with court action and everything - scare tactics.
I have no sympathy for these people. They are lazy, worthless individuals to society when we should be putting our cash and efforts into things like cancer treatments, improving NHS and so on.
SM
He rarely glided into the office, unless his precious revenue started to significantly dip because then he had to start answering questions to his superiors. He never spoke to the people at the bottom and was up his own ^&*£
What got on my nerves beyond anything was that you have another department a few floors below, the child protection part of the council really trying hard (esp after Baby P incident) and are really changing lives - but they have very little cash to run things how they want yet the parking department are raking in tens of MILLIONS of pounds each year.
Then on the other side you've got fat gready staff looking at driving offence revenue drinking coffee all day and moaning they didn't get as much cash as 2007.
They don't get big bonuses because its local government (unlike these scameras - so these will no doubt be worse), however it revenue that is reinvested from fines back into the local community - crap you don't need like new road signs, better bus stops, etc. IT SHOULD BE SPENT ON THE FREGGIN CHILD PROTECTION DEPARTMENT MORONS!!! grrrr!
booner said:
That picture is my local speed camera.
It's a long straight with 30 limit before Blenheim Palace. It's near two bus stops and surprisingly I have seen people stung by it, but it's mostly tourists from overseas. You can see it for nearly a mile in each direction, but nobody speeds down that road anyway...
Mine too, must admit it is the easiest camera to spot and have never understood how anyone got caught by it......<looks at his O/H>....but trying to get out of the nearby junction is a real PITA now traffic isn't slowing for the camera It's a long straight with 30 limit before Blenheim Palace. It's near two bus stops and surprisingly I have seen people stung by it, but it's mostly tourists from overseas. You can see it for nearly a mile in each direction, but nobody speeds down that road anyway...
The real problem was that without a strong set of data recorded 200 yds before each camera you cannot say whether a car the has 'sped' through the camara was simply a driver who used to slow down for the camera and then speed up again or whether it was somone who would have driven through speeding.
We know for a fact that none of this data was recorded so it is basically impossible to argue any side of the arguement.
We know for a fact that none of this data was recorded so it is basically impossible to argue any side of the arguement.
booner said:
That picture is my local speed camera.
It's a long straight with 30 limit before Blenheim Palace. It's near two bus stops and surprisingly I have seen people stung by it, but it's mostly tourists from overseas. You can see it for nearly a mile in each direction, but nobody speeds down that road anyway...
I was going out with a girl in Woodstock a few years ago and that bIt's a long straight with 30 limit before Blenheim Palace. It's near two bus stops and surprisingly I have seen people stung by it, but it's mostly tourists from overseas. You can see it for nearly a mile in each direction, but nobody speeds down that road anyway...
d camera caught me going in on the Friday night, and then going back out on the Monday morning. They'd turned it round over the weekend.On both occasions there was a light scattering of snow on the ground and I was in an old shed of an MGB with a flickering speedometer needle and frosted windows, trying to stop it "crab" down the road. 34mph on the way in and 36mph on the way out. 6 points in two days.
Attitude is the problem on the roads. We have been so brow beaten and "enforced" for so long everyone always seems so frustrated and angry behind the wheel.
Nobody really cares about anybody else and drivers seem to see pedestrians as obstacles rather than people.
Went for a run the other day at Virginia Waters in Ascot, parked up and walked along the row of cars (road side as its all brambles on the other side. A driver came past me at about 20mph within 2 inches and stopped so close to the woman in front of me I actually gasped and said "holysh!t", he then reveresed and gave me abuse. Where is the need for that?
People like this are the ones that make the "goody goodies" think the roads need enforcing. It would have cost around him 5 seconds to wait until there wasnt another car coming to get past, but instead he risked seriously injuring, potentially killing someone..
We all need to just calm down and be nice. Speed is irrelevent...
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