electric car scam?
Discussion
those god awful electric cars.. Yea no one likes them. But if you were to buy one your supposed to get a reduction on the price from new from the government of 5k. Bet not many people realise its only 9 models that qualify for the 5k. So if i could afford it a Tesla in my eyes is a very green car - despite what ever is its problems. So why isnt that able to get the 5k? Why isnt every electric vehicle able to qualify? Whats more annoying is that the toyota prius is on the list! Its not a full electric car - unless that version is? Not sure. Someone is getting a backhander somewhere. In my eyes if your vehicle was full electric no matter if my next door neighbour was manufacturing electric cars or a big multi national company was making an electric car they all pollute to the same level. The leccy is from the same wires.
Edited by yosamite sam on Wednesday 15th December 13:18
Interesting program on German television recently saying if we were all to change to electric cars the grid system would collapse,appartly vehicle fuel is about 75% of of the grid output so would leave a massive short fall in energy production.Given that the European grid is over loaded at the moment I wonder were all this energy is going to come from.
On the program GRIP yesterday they featured a Tesla drove it from Germany to Turkey (I think) through many countries and were always able to charge the car when required interesting car for the few.
On the program GRIP yesterday they featured a Tesla drove it from Germany to Turkey (I think) through many countries and were always able to charge the car when required interesting car for the few.
yosamite sam said:
those god awful electric cars.. Yea no one likes them. But if you were to buy one your supposed to get a reduction on the price from new from the government of 5k. Bet not many people realise its only 9 models that qualify for the 5k. So if i could afford it a Tesla in my eyes is a very green car - despite what ever is its problems. So why isnt that able to get the 5k? Why isnt every electric vehicle able to qualify? Whats more annoying is that the toyota prius is on the list! Its not a full electric car - unless that version is? Not sure. Someone is getting a backhander somewhere. In my eyes if your vehicle was full electric no matter if my next door neighbour was manufacturing electric cars or a big multi national company was making an electric car they all pollute to the same level. The leccy is from the same wires.
Right, firstly, you can go direct to OLEV's pages to read more about this here: Edited by yosamite sam on Wednesday 15th December 13:18
http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/sustainable/olev/grant1/
The grant applies to new cars, and in terms of the criteria alone, the Tesla Roadster DOES qualify.
However, the manufacturers must apply through DfT/OLEV with details of the vehicles before eligibility is 'official'. Essentially, the situation with Tesla is that it's "in the pipeline". As a guess, I'd imagine it's just down to the fact that this wasn't as much of a priority sales-wise (they're not going to be shifting the same volumes as Vauxhall, Nissan, Mitsubishi et al.)
Pulled from the earlier press release...
"The Plug-In Car Grant will require compliance with 8 eligibility criteria:
· Vehicle Type: New cars only (‘M1’ category vehicles, this includes pre-registration conversions) i.e. excluding motorcycles, quadricycles and vans.
· Carbon Dioxide tailpipe emissions: Less than 75g/km
· Range: EVs minimum 70 miles, PHEVs minimum electric range 10 miles.
· Minimum top speed: 60mph.
· Warranty: 3 year or 60,000 miles vehicle warranty, plus, a 3 year battery and electric drive train warranty with a consumer option for a 2 year battery warranty extension.
· Battery performance: Either a minimum 5 year warranty on the battery and electric drive train as standard OR additional evidence of battery performance to illustrate reasonable performance after 3 years of use.
· Electrical Safety: Vehicles must comply with UN- ECE Reg100.00 (PHEVs will be required to show they have met the technical requirements of 01 series amendments to UN- ECE Reg 100); vehicle manufacturers will be required to identify risks associated with vehicle use and state mitigating actions.
· Vehicle crash safety: European Commission whole vehicle type approval (EC WVTA, not small series) OR evidence that the car demonstrates appropriate levels of safety as judged by international standards."
These criteria are in theory up for review in 2012, but how that may or may not affect cars already purchased with a grant through the scheme from now onwards is still TBC.
Electric cars just don`t work if you want to go any distance though. The BBC did that drive from London to Edinburgh this last week. Ok it only took the equivelent of £10 in electricity costs, but the hotel fees must have been a bit seeing as the journey took 4 bleedin days. They couldn`t even keep the heater on as it was draining to much power out ot the batteries and they would not have made the charging point.
Carbon Dioxide tailpipe emissions: Less than 75g/km
How do you measure emissions from a power station? A UCL study showed that a coal fired power station without carbon capture would emit 0.69kg of CO2 per Kwh
A Nissan Leaf uses 24Kwh per 160km, which equates to 103g of CO2 per km. Which means they should pay road tax and congestion charge.
A diesel Fiesta is now less than a 100g per km.
Funny how greenies who think that CO2 is the work of the devil seem to ignore this.
How do you measure emissions from a power station? A UCL study showed that a coal fired power station without carbon capture would emit 0.69kg of CO2 per Kwh
A Nissan Leaf uses 24Kwh per 160km, which equates to 103g of CO2 per km. Which means they should pay road tax and congestion charge.
A diesel Fiesta is now less than a 100g per km.
Funny how greenies who think that CO2 is the work of the devil seem to ignore this.
mxspyder said:
Carbon Dioxide tailpipe emissions: Less than 75g/km
How do you measure emissions from a power station? A UCL study showed that a coal fired power station without carbon capture would emit 0.69kg of CO2 per Kwh
A Nissan Leaf uses 24Kwh per 160km, which equates to 103g of CO2 per km. Which means they should pay road tax and congestion charge.
A diesel Fiesta is now less than a 100g per km.
Funny how greenies who think that CO2 is the work of the devil seem to ignore this.
And its funny how petrolheads ignore the amount of Co2 emitted getting the petrol to the petrol station while arguing about the amount of Co2 an electric car produces.How do you measure emissions from a power station? A UCL study showed that a coal fired power station without carbon capture would emit 0.69kg of CO2 per Kwh
A Nissan Leaf uses 24Kwh per 160km, which equates to 103g of CO2 per km. Which means they should pay road tax and congestion charge.
A diesel Fiesta is now less than a 100g per km.
Funny how greenies who think that CO2 is the work of the devil seem to ignore this.
Then in the next breath they say Co2 is bulls
t.If Co2 is bulls
t then why argue about itAnd it is bulls
t.2 major advantages to electric cars
1 You don't have to visit petrol stations which are awful places
2 They can take their energy from anything that can produce electricty so you can run them on coal which is damn hard to shove coal into a petrol car
It wouldn't be much use trying to run them on coal, when China alone uses more than half of the coal globally produced every year on an ever-increasing scale year on year. And what is benefitial in burning coal?
They should stop pulling our chains over the electric car. They will never be the answer. Period.
Now investing our collective resources through stealth taxes etc to develope technology such as the hydrogen fuel cell, well at least that would be something worthwhile. Everything else is posturing and short-sighted, politically biased nonesense, aimed squarely at the masses that can't think beyond where their next chip butty comes from.
Considering the amount of CO2 expelled to deliver the fuel to the stations is irrelevant, unless you are preparred to measure your carbon footprint in its entirety and that must include shipping your food to the supermarkets and the gas expelled by the food you eat before we've processeed the animal out of the fields. And don't get me started on "we shouldn't eat animals"
OK, RANT OVER
They should stop pulling our chains over the electric car. They will never be the answer. Period.
Now investing our collective resources through stealth taxes etc to develope technology such as the hydrogen fuel cell, well at least that would be something worthwhile. Everything else is posturing and short-sighted, politically biased nonesense, aimed squarely at the masses that can't think beyond where their next chip butty comes from.
Considering the amount of CO2 expelled to deliver the fuel to the stations is irrelevant, unless you are preparred to measure your carbon footprint in its entirety and that must include shipping your food to the supermarkets and the gas expelled by the food you eat before we've processeed the animal out of the fields. And don't get me started on "we shouldn't eat animals"
OK, RANT OVER
MSPV12 said:
It wouldn't be much use trying to run them on coal, when China alone uses more than half of the coal globally produced every year on an ever-increasing scale year on year. And what is benefitial in burning coal?
Its cheap and we have alot of itMSPV12 said:
They should stop pulling our chains over the electric car. They will never be the answer. Period.
Now investing our collective resources through stealth taxes etc to develope technology such as the hydrogen fuel cell,
Hydrogen comes from????????Now investing our collective resources through stealth taxes etc to develope technology such as the hydrogen fuel cell,
MSPV12 said:
"we shouldn't eat animals"
BURPToo late
My points re coal are that we have an under-supply of coal which can only get worse due to the emergence of the Eastern economies and their ever increasing demand for coal. Burning Coal is also not good for the enviroment, any more so than burning petrol. How much CO2 is produced delivering billions of tons of coal aroung the planet? China produces 48% and uses 52% of the supply (industry estimates). As they require more, they simply pay over the odds for the quantities needed. If you dig coal, who would you sell it to? Probably the guy who offers to pay you more for it!
Where does hydrogen come from?
Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe, and is found in water, amongst other things. Hydrogen bonds with other elements to form molecules such as water and natural gas etc. Hydrogen is “produced” by breaking the chemical bonds in the molecules that form these substances. Water molecules consist of two hydrogen atoms bonded to an oxygen atom.
On that basis, why would we even consider wasting our time developing electric cars, when the resources needed to power them are equally in short supply, increasing in costs to buy/process/supply and damage the planet collectively far more than the Vilain of the piece, the motor car?
edited to add....
Also we should consider that when the developed and developing world has a very finite supply of electricity, suggesting that we add a massive extra demand (such as all switching to electric cars would produce), for that limited supply is just plain daft.
Where does hydrogen come from?
Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe, and is found in water, amongst other things. Hydrogen bonds with other elements to form molecules such as water and natural gas etc. Hydrogen is “produced” by breaking the chemical bonds in the molecules that form these substances. Water molecules consist of two hydrogen atoms bonded to an oxygen atom.
On that basis, why would we even consider wasting our time developing electric cars, when the resources needed to power them are equally in short supply, increasing in costs to buy/process/supply and damage the planet collectively far more than the Vilain of the piece, the motor car?
edited to add....
Also we should consider that when the developed and developing world has a very finite supply of electricity, suggesting that we add a massive extra demand (such as all switching to electric cars would produce), for that limited supply is just plain daft.
Edited by MSPV12 on Monday 17th January 20:44
MSPV12 said:
My points re coal are that we have an under-supply of coal which can only get worse due to the emergence of the Eastern economies and their ever increasing demand for coal. Burning Coal is also not good for the enviroment, any more so than burning petrol.
Where does hydrogen come from?
Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe, and is found in water, amongst other things. Hydrogen bonds with other elements to form molecules such as water and natural gas etc. Hydrogen is “produced” by breaking the chemical bonds in the molecules that form these substances. Water molecules consist of two hydrogen atoms bonded to an oxygen atom.
On that basis, why would we even consider wasting our time developing electric cars, when the resources needed to power them are equally in short supply, increased costs to buy/process and damage the planet collectively far more than the Vilain of the piece, the motor car?
And how do we break the bonds in water?Where does hydrogen come from?
Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe, and is found in water, amongst other things. Hydrogen bonds with other elements to form molecules such as water and natural gas etc. Hydrogen is “produced” by breaking the chemical bonds in the molecules that form these substances. Water molecules consist of two hydrogen atoms bonded to an oxygen atom.
On that basis, why would we even consider wasting our time developing electric cars, when the resources needed to power them are equally in short supply, increased costs to buy/process and damage the planet collectively far more than the Vilain of the piece, the motor car?
By using
1 Really small knifes
2 Highly skilled hamsters
3 s
tloads of electricity You get way less power out of hydrogen then you do to make it in the first place its quite frankly a crap fuel without cheap electricity
MSPV12 said:
Catch 22, but I stand by the argument that electric cars are no answer to the problem
The problem is everyone in the UK belives they need to buy a car that can carry 5 people and a washing machine from london to glasgow and back in complete comfort to pop 5 miles down the road to the shops.TimJMS said:
MSPV12 said:
...And what is benefitial in burning coal?
Increased atmospheric trace element fertilisers and organic fungicides which are highly beneficial for plant health and growth rates.Gassing Station | Motoring News | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff