Starting problems continued

[pmessling]

With the initial symptoms leading towards the starter motor solenoid i have replace the solenoid yet the car is still only spinning the starter and not engaging the starter gear.

So far i have checked:
Changed the solenoid
Checked the starter gear and is throwing when bench testing
I have 12 volts at the little ignition wire that leads to the solenoid
Swapped round the starter relays on the fuse board
checked the 30amp fuse
Checked the flywheel ring gear where i could having removed the starter and all teeth are fine

What else is there to check before getting the car to a indie

Does any one have the ignition/ starter circuit diagram that i can use to trace

[high52kojak]

The starter gear contains a type of clutch, when engaged with the flywheel it can slip if it is faulty. Mine did this so I replaced the gear.
I put a link to this on your earlier post.

[pmessling]

i did get the kit with the gear and solenoid. Forgot to mention that i had changed the gear also, but replaced it with the original after one of the lungs snapped off because of the casting being wraped, only one has come off so may put it back on and try it again. New verses old.

[pmessling]

removed the starter again today, and swapped the gear and clutch mechanism and the new one the starter motor doesn't even turn you can hear it wanting to as it buzzes and pushes the gear out, refitted original and the motor turns and the solenoid operates as it should when bench testing.

Refitted started which has the original gear mech, and new soleniod and the car started, turn it off quick enough so that i could refit the rest of the air boxes and pips etc.

Having done that started car again, let it get to normal temp and run for a while to charge the battery although have been charging the battery whilst doing the work) and checked charge 13.1v so all good.

Turned car off to let cool down so that i could test it again after 10minutes and started but sounded as like the starter was struggling but started, let it run again whilst i tied all my tools away.

turned off and tried it again and guess what, starters just spinning again.

So my question WHY,

Would it be wise to just get a new starter seeing as the car is technically working, starter is still under warranty as was replaced near enough a year ago and can refit original solenoid, although annoying to have to take it off again.

Suggestions??

thanks
Peter

[1905ccxr]

Hi, I don't really venture on much since having to sell my Cerb just before christmas but read this, not to say its the case but I had the same issue throughout last year.

I tried new starters, refurbing my original Tilton, various wiring and earthing options, new battery etc etc. Had the AA out 2/3 times spoke to various co.s.

Eventually I had to bite the bullet and send the car to a specialist and it turned out the flywheel/ring gear was dead. A duff starter had at somepoint stripped it. Sometimes it would spin others it would just clunk.

I had visually inspected what I could and it seemed fine, I was wrong it seems.

Alot of people told me it wouldn't be possible or it was a rarity and thats what mine was unfortunately.

Anyway worth a look if you can.

Hope you resolve it,

Regards Craig...

[Tanguero]

Have you tried jumping the thin wire from the solenoid to a good 12v such as the battery? You may need to make up a wire with a spade terminal on one end to do this.

If that starts the car then you have a loss in the wiring in the starter circuit. Mine was due to corroded terminals on a relay in the passenger footwell, I cleaned them up and it has been fine since. Not all cars seem to have this relay though so yours may be different. You may need to trace the starter activation circuit (the wiring diagram gives the wire colours) and clean up all connections as you go. Hopefully you will eventually find the problem.

As a temporary measure I wired in a relay that was activated by the existing wiring (which supplied enough current for a relay but not the solenoid), that gave the solenoid wire a kick directly from the big fuse. That kept it going until I tracked down the real problem in the circuit.


On the other hand if a good 12v feed to the solenoid wire doesn't start her then I don't know what to suggest.

[pmessling]

I jumped the small wire from the starter today from the battery and still the same result. Forgot to do this yesterday after bringing some thick cable home from work so thanks for the reminder.

Whilst i was doing this i was able to hear the starter solenoid pushing the gear out and the motor spinning, as it was doing this on that spot of the flywheel i have looked at the teeth as you can see and there is nothing wrong with them. I'm suspecting its the clutch, i can't use the new one i have as it locked the starter motor up as the motor is still under warranty i'm going to send it away, at least its only going to cost the postage that way.

[Tanguero]

Certainly sounds like it has to be a faulty solenoid/clutch on the starter.

[pmessling]

As the solenoid is brand new, i'm definitely heading towards the clutch, but i can't explain why the new clutch turns in your hands but not when the starter is trying to turn it, but the old one works, to a point as thats the one currently fitted but is only spinning up. the old one does feel notchey compared to the smoothness of the new one.

[jammy_basturd]

I have to admit, I've never heard of this happening before, but thinking about it, it is certainly plausible. Are the threads for the starter motor mounting bolts OK? Just thinking, if they're stripped, they might be allowing the starter to lift clear of the teeth on the flywheel when engaging?

[SimonKD]

pmessling said:

but i can't explain why the new clutch turns in your hands but not when the starter is trying to turn it

By this do you mean you can turn the starter motor gear by hand?

If so this is always the case because until you put 12V on the solenoid coil the clutch is not engaged so the starter motor and starter motor gear are not actually connected to each other.

The starter motor gear just freewheels effectively.

To me you definitely have a problem with the mechanism that engages the clutch or with the clutch itself.

Sorry if I've misunderstood you.

Regards
Simon

[pmessling]

Right all sorted, sent my starter back to RT racing, who sent it back to the manufacture, who have sent me a brand new one, fitted it to my cerbera and started first time.

Any one interested in a brand new solenoid for £40 posted?