Free Meal at Chatsworth
Discussion
to anyone who can show me why the crank collar (to which the aircon pulley is attached) will no longer seat properly on the crank.
History as follows: Crank bolt fell out (my fault I forgot to torque it properly), so I ran the engine for a couple of hundred miles without the collar secured properly.
Fortunately I found it on the engine tray(!) the next day while at Spa so refitted it half way through the day. However I found that the collar would no longer seat properly. I assumed this was from debris behind the collar, but I can't find anything. Next I suspected the Woodruff key, but with the key removed still no difference. I've also tried with the oil seal and carrier removed, still no different. The nose of the crank remains about 3mm short of the face of the aircon pulley - this means the crank bolt can't be torqued properly.
There is damage to the timing cover at the back of the bearing, but this was present before the bolt fell out, as can be seen from the photos I took of the timing cover some months earlier, I don't think this has changed since running without the bolt.
I've tried with both a hot and cold engine, things move more easily when the engine is hot, but still no luck.
No debris that I can find
Prior damage to timing cover
Great suggesion from Topcats, although I need heavier wire (only have a guitar string available for now). The hex shaped brass washer is temporary until I can source the correct part.
This was my attempt to limit forward movement of the collar assembly, which up to this point had been rubbing on the crossmember. The nylon wore down surprisingly quickly.
History as follows: Crank bolt fell out (my fault I forgot to torque it properly), so I ran the engine for a couple of hundred miles without the collar secured properly.
Fortunately I found it on the engine tray(!) the next day while at Spa so refitted it half way through the day. However I found that the collar would no longer seat properly. I assumed this was from debris behind the collar, but I can't find anything. Next I suspected the Woodruff key, but with the key removed still no difference. I've also tried with the oil seal and carrier removed, still no different. The nose of the crank remains about 3mm short of the face of the aircon pulley - this means the crank bolt can't be torqued properly.
There is damage to the timing cover at the back of the bearing, but this was present before the bolt fell out, as can be seen from the photos I took of the timing cover some months earlier, I don't think this has changed since running without the bolt.
I've tried with both a hot and cold engine, things move more easily when the engine is hot, but still no luck.
No debris that I can find
Prior damage to timing cover
Great suggesion from Topcats, although I need heavier wire (only have a guitar string available for now). The hex shaped brass washer is temporary until I can source the correct part.
This was my attempt to limit forward movement of the collar assembly, which up to this point had been rubbing on the crossmember. The nylon wore down surprisingly quickly.
Edited by ukkid35 on Sunday 15th April 11:37
Edited by ukkid35 on Sunday 15th April 13:36
ridds said:
To be clear, is it the silver part that the four bolts cap head bolts go into?
Yesridds said:
Why have you used the hex spacer?
Didn't have an original washer to hand, it's probably within 1mm of the washer thickness.ridds said:
Is the bolt now too long and you can only get the clamp loading with the washer in place?
NoIt is as if there is debris at the back of the roller bearing, that is stopping the collar from being inserted fully - but I can't see or feel anything. I've added a couple more photos of the roller bearing area that I couldn't upload earlier.
Edited by ukkid35 on Sunday 15th April 13:36
looking at your pics of the inside of the timing cover, there looks like a gap behind the bearing, as if its not seated all the way in? but this may be nothing to do with it if these pics were taken some time ago.
have you now torqued up the crank bolt fully?
surely the only thing that can stop the shaft fitting on properly would be damaged bearing or face, woodruff key fitment,, burrs / debris on the shaft or collar.
have you now torqued up the crank bolt fully?
surely the only thing that can stop the shaft fitting on properly would be damaged bearing or face, woodruff key fitment,, burrs / debris on the shaft or collar.
Edited by clive f on Sunday 15th April 17:26
clive f said:
looking at your pics of the inside of the timing cover, there looks like a gap behind the bearing, as if its not seated all the way in? but this may be nothing to do with it if these pics were taken some time ago.
There is a very small gap I agree, but no more than 0.5mm, but more importantly that was from last year, and it all went back together fine at the time.clive f said:
have you now torqued up the crank bolt fully?
No, I daren't, if I were to something would give way.clive f said:
surely the only thing that can stop the shaft fitting on properly would be damaged bearing or face, woodruff key fitment,, burrs / debris on the shaft or collar.
I agree, but everything is clean and free of debris - hence my complete confusion.I will disassemble the pulley/collar assembly at Chatsworth for advice or suggestions because I am at a loss.
I take it there is no room in the cerb to remove the timing cover with the engine still in?
I have a spare timing cover in good nick if needed.
a pic of the shaft on the crank,
just thinking out loud, the aircon pulley is not fitting on all the way, needs another 3mm to sit home properly? so either the shaft that bolts to the front of the crank has come forward as the bolt has come undone, or the shaft is in the right place but there is someting stopping the pulley from seating home properly?
my memory is a bit sketchy from not having an ajp for a few years, I`d phone someone like andy at apm for advice, I think the crank bolt needs to be done up first, or, if in doubt remove the timing cover to check it thoroughly.
I have a spare timing cover in good nick if needed.
a pic of the shaft on the crank,
just thinking out loud, the aircon pulley is not fitting on all the way, needs another 3mm to sit home properly? so either the shaft that bolts to the front of the crank has come forward as the bolt has come undone, or the shaft is in the right place but there is someting stopping the pulley from seating home properly?
my memory is a bit sketchy from not having an ajp for a few years, I`d phone someone like andy at apm for advice, I think the crank bolt needs to be done up first, or, if in doubt remove the timing cover to check it thoroughly.
clive f said:
I take it there is no room in the cerb to remove the timing cover with the engine still in?
LOL you are so right... on an Aircon car at least - no idea how different a non-aircon car might be.The point is there is no way that cover is coming off again during my ownership, and no reason why it should for this issue. There is no reason why it can't be diagnosed and sorted in situ.
Gazzab said:
What is the definition of ''meal' at chatsworth? Moccasin slipper stuffed with pedigree chum?
If you can explain this then 'a meal' will run to anything that Heston can rustle up and I'll be happy, as long as you can seat the collar properly or explain why it will never fit together again.PS - A meal at the Fat Duck is exceptional value - as a once in a lifetime experience
Sir i cant figure this out at all.have looked in my engine manual etc and looked at drawings...no clues there.I know its a bodge for now but cant you make a stop that will fit onto allen bolt and then lock onto bolt flat face to stop it turning.i would use a flat piece of metal and bend it in a vice to form a 90 degree bracket type effect,,,,,i know you want to find out why but its hard unless you have the car infront of you to see the problem
spongy said:
i know you want to find out why but its hard unless you have the car infront of you to see the problem
I completely agree, which is why I'm happy to take it all apart at Chatsworth (although I need to be able to chock the wheels and work in the dry).I'm also happy to drive it with this issue - I drove it unknowingly for some time with the crank bolt missing. It's far better off now with the bolt tied in place than it was before.
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