Getting VERY frustrated with starting issue now....
Discussion
Having been away for a few days, went to start the Cerb, and she refuses to turn. Same problem I had last weekend. Following which she started randomly (seemed to be enough power to turn starter easily), and was fine again for a few days.
The electrics all seem to work, doors, windows, alarm/immobiliser, internal lights etc, but my battery charger is telling me that my battery level is low, despite having had it on charge all afternoon.
The solenoid/relay in the boot seems to engage solidly when pressing the starter button, but not even a twitch from the starter motor.
To me this seems like an electrical problem, but also involving the battery. Is it possible that a short to earth will cause the battery to show as low?
Anyone on here know much about vehicle electrics?
If I need a new battery I'll go out an get one straight away, but no point if it's something else...
The electrics all seem to work, doors, windows, alarm/immobiliser, internal lights etc, but my battery charger is telling me that my battery level is low, despite having had it on charge all afternoon.
The solenoid/relay in the boot seems to engage solidly when pressing the starter button, but not even a twitch from the starter motor.
To me this seems like an electrical problem, but also involving the battery. Is it possible that a short to earth will cause the battery to show as low?
Anyone on here know much about vehicle electrics?
If I need a new battery I'll go out an get one straight away, but no point if it's something else...
Recently had similar.
Car had been standing for a while. Charged battery overnight, started OK.
Next day, battery flat.
Changed battery, stared fine. Went to fill up with fuel, on way back from garage battery light came on.
100 Amp fuse had broken, although it looked fine until I undid one end.
Recently left the car for 2 weeks, started first turn of the key.
So, don't leave battery to get too low, it will only take massive charges a few times.
The 100 amp fuse will be weakened if the alternator has to supply very high current to recharge battery (also weakened by heat, damp, age etc etc)
Car had been standing for a while. Charged battery overnight, started OK.
Next day, battery flat.
Changed battery, stared fine. Went to fill up with fuel, on way back from garage battery light came on.
100 Amp fuse had broken, although it looked fine until I undid one end.
Recently left the car for 2 weeks, started first turn of the key.
So, don't leave battery to get too low, it will only take massive charges a few times.
The 100 amp fuse will be weakened if the alternator has to supply very high current to recharge battery (also weakened by heat, damp, age etc etc)
Ok I've removed the airbox and taken the battery out separating it from the vehicle electrics, so I can charge it inside overnight using my charger/conditioner.
This should help me find out if the battery or electrics are at fault I would think.
Only think is, taking the airbox off and battery out has highlighted to me that a certain garage my car last went to for some work, have cut corners - they were supposed to swap out all of my mild steel cooling rails with stainless. However the one from the expansion tank which runs under the battery hasn't been changed - they only changed the one that is visible inside the engine bay next to the front part of the chassis.
I swear I will NEVER go there again - not only were they expensive, but they ripped me off.
Nigel at Red Mist from now on....who incidentally has given me a very competitive quote for some work I want done shortly.
This should help me find out if the battery or electrics are at fault I would think.
Only think is, taking the airbox off and battery out has highlighted to me that a certain garage my car last went to for some work, have cut corners - they were supposed to swap out all of my mild steel cooling rails with stainless. However the one from the expansion tank which runs under the battery hasn't been changed - they only changed the one that is visible inside the engine bay next to the front part of the chassis.
I swear I will NEVER go there again - not only were they expensive, but they ripped me off.
Nigel at Red Mist from now on....who incidentally has given me a very competitive quote for some work I want done shortly.
Its easy enough to check the starter its self. If you take the thin signal wire out of the large grey connector and touch wire from a battery live to the spade it came off, the starter should spin up.
If that is working then the most likely suspect is the immobiliser. The internal relays get old and tired and end up not passing enough current to kick the starter into life. Check that you are getting some voltage on that thin signal wire when you press the black button to start. If so but the starter solenoid still isn't kicking in then you can use the existing signal wire to trigger a relay in the engine compartment which switches a live from the big fuse to the starter solenoid. That gives you a solid workaround until you replace the immobiliser module.
If that is working then the most likely suspect is the immobiliser. The internal relays get old and tired and end up not passing enough current to kick the starter into life. Check that you are getting some voltage on that thin signal wire when you press the black button to start. If so but the starter solenoid still isn't kicking in then you can use the existing signal wire to trigger a relay in the engine compartment which switches a live from the big fuse to the starter solenoid. That gives you a solid workaround until you replace the immobiliser module.
mickydoo said:
Having been away for a few days, went to start the Cerb, and she refuses to turn. Same problem I had last weekend. Following which she started randomly (seemed to be enough power to turn starter easily), and was fine again for a few days.
The electrics all seem to work, doors, windows, alarm/immobiliser, internal lights etc, but my battery charger is telling me that my battery level is low, despite having had it on charge all afternoon.
The solenoid/relay in the boot seems to engage solidly when pressing the starter button, but not even a twitch from the starter motor.
To me this seems like an electrical problem, but also involving the battery. Is it possible that a short to earth will cause the battery to show as low?
Anyone on here know much about vehicle electrics?
If I need a new battery I'll go out an get one straight away, but no point if it's something else...
Is this the old immobiliser fault ?The electrics all seem to work, doors, windows, alarm/immobiliser, internal lights etc, but my battery charger is telling me that my battery level is low, despite having had it on charge all afternoon.
The solenoid/relay in the boot seems to engage solidly when pressing the starter button, but not even a twitch from the starter motor.
To me this seems like an electrical problem, but also involving the battery. Is it possible that a short to earth will cause the battery to show as low?
Anyone on here know much about vehicle electrics?
If I need a new battery I'll go out an get one straight away, but no point if it's something else...
As in, holding your finger on the starter button for a few minutes eventually makes it fire up ?
Had the same problem with my Cerb when initially purchased.
If left for 24-46 hours without being on an Optimate the battery died.
It was traced to being a short in the alternator probably due to bits of swarf.
Apparently someone had dremelled the tops off the coil pack mounting bolts at sometime and that was likely to be the source.
One new replacement alternator and the problem hasn't resurfaced ... although the alternator that was supplied and fitted at Three Legged Cross was faulty and had to be replaced!
If left for 24-46 hours without being on an Optimate the battery died.
It was traced to being a short in the alternator probably due to bits of swarf.
Apparently someone had dremelled the tops off the coil pack mounting bolts at sometime and that was likely to be the source.
One new replacement alternator and the problem hasn't resurfaced ... although the alternator that was supplied and fitted at Three Legged Cross was faulty and had to be replaced!
mickydoo said:
Which signal wire & large grey connector are you referring to? Where is it? Thx
The signal wire on the starter motor. The starter has a couple of big thick cables going to it for power and one thinner wire that ends in a grey connector shell that at least to my eye looks far too big for the gauge wire. The thin wire is the signal/trigger wire for the solenoid.It is unlikely to be a battery issue. If it was, the starter would either be trying to turn but really slowly or more likely rapidly clicking loudly as the solenoid kicks in and out.
Edited by Tanguero on Wednesday 23 May 09:31
right - looking at the starter from the nearside, it looks like the attached photos.
From the front, there are two thumb-sized spring-clip style connectors, but these don't "appear" to be connected to the starter. One is obvious in the photo (yellow sheath), and the other is hidden on the offside, tucked under the intake hoses.
Also on the nearside, there is what appears to be a small cable which goes via a small black clip connection, and then snakes it's way back to the front of the starter entering the motor between the drive wheel and the starter body.
Which is which?
From the front, there are two thumb-sized spring-clip style connectors, but these don't "appear" to be connected to the starter. One is obvious in the photo (yellow sheath), and the other is hidden on the offside, tucked under the intake hoses.
Also on the nearside, there is what appears to be a small cable which goes via a small black clip connection, and then snakes it's way back to the front of the starter entering the motor between the drive wheel and the starter body.
Which is which?
That isn't the starter motor, its the air con compressor. The starter motor is at the other end of the engine tucked away under the bodywork attached to the bell housing where it drives the ring gear on the flywheel - like most starter motors.
Without being wishing to cause offense, you would be best getting someone who knows what they are doing to look at it.
Without being wishing to cause offense, you would be best getting someone who knows what they are doing to look at it.
Tanguero said:
That isn't the starter motor, its the air con compressor. The starter motor is at the other end of the engine tucked away under the bodywork attached to the bell housing where it drives the ring gear on the flywheel - like most starter motors.
Without being wishing to cause offense, you would be best getting someone who knows what they are doing to look at it.
Without being wishing to cause offense, you would be best getting someone who knows what they are doing to look at it.
Step away from the car!
Whilst it is great to work on the car yourself it can be dangerous/expensive if you really don't have the knowledge. Best way is to try and get someone who knows how to come and guide you through.
mickydoo said:
Ok, point taken. Is there anyone in Bournemouth area willing to come and guide me, before I resign myself to another low loader trip to the garage?
If you were a bit closer I would, unfortunately I'm 'working from home' and checks are sometimes made! 
If you still have the problem Friday PM let me know!
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