Should I buy an AJPV8 4.2 or 4.5 ?
Discussion
I'm thinking of buying either a 4.2 or 4.5 - it will mainly be for track days rather than the road. Would very much appreciate advice on the power & torque differentials of the 2 engines, also specifically reliability issues that people have had with either engine.
I understand that the factory quoted 420 bhp is a myth, whereas the 4.2's 350 is a little closer to reality. I've seen the dyno printouts on Joospeed's site but would still appreciate owner's views etc.
Don't really need advice on where to get one from or how great they look etc - know that already ! - just comments on the power & durability of the engine itself & if possible an indication as to how much your car has been used on the track, so I can get a "feel" for durability relative to track day useage etc.
The 4.5 I have in mind is a low mileage 2002 car. Had most of the earlier reported problems on the car been "ironed out" by 2002 or are there still "issues" I need to consider ?
Many thanks in anticipation.
I understand that the factory quoted 420 bhp is a myth, whereas the 4.2's 350 is a little closer to reality. I've seen the dyno printouts on Joospeed's site but would still appreciate owner's views etc.
Don't really need advice on where to get one from or how great they look etc - know that already ! - just comments on the power & durability of the engine itself & if possible an indication as to how much your car has been used on the track, so I can get a "feel" for durability relative to track day useage etc.
The 4.5 I have in mind is a low mileage 2002 car. Had most of the earlier reported problems on the car been "ironed out" by 2002 or are there still "issues" I need to consider ?
Many thanks in anticipation.
Not a good car to use at regular track days UNLESS you are willing to really fork out cash!!
Brakes and tyres alone will cost a fortune.
You will also need to improve standard suspension (nitrons or ohlins) - cost between £1K and £3K I guess.
But at least they are strong and relatively safe.
If you are tall then getting in with a crash helmet on is sometimes difficult.
The seats are terrible - whether the old or new style and wont hold you in place.
There are cars that are much better suited to the job.
Brakes and tyres alone will cost a fortune.
You will also need to improve standard suspension (nitrons or ohlins) - cost between £1K and £3K I guess.
But at least they are strong and relatively safe.
If you are tall then getting in with a crash helmet on is sometimes difficult.
The seats are terrible - whether the old or new style and wont hold you in place.
There are cars that are much better suited to the job.
gazzab said:
Not a good car to use at regular track days UNLESS you are willing to really fork out cash!!
Brakes and tyres alone will cost a fortune.
You will also need to improve standard suspension (nitrons or ohlins) - cost between £1K and £3K I guess.
But at least they are strong and relatively safe.
If you are tall then getting in with a crash helmet on is sometimes difficult.
The seats are terrible - whether the old or new style and wont hold you in place.
There are cars that are much better suited to the job.
Heavy brake & tyre expenditure expected & tolerated already - am used to running softer compound tyres that disappear before you can say "chequered flag"
Penskes or Ohlins are a "done deal".
When you say they are "strong" - do you mean the car or the engine ? - I'm particularly interested in the engines rather than the suitability of the Cerbie as a track day car.
Radical or JP1 (but not Ultima I think) a possibility as a separate project next year.
Thanks again for info - it's much appreciated.
joospeed said:
get a radical 
if you're hell-bent on a cerbie go for the 4.2 and put the three grand saved on upgrades and track day costs
Radicals are not immune from problems/reliability Joo, as I'm sure you've heard. Know a few people that own them & with 1 or 2 exceptions, reliability has been an issue. Would still consider one but as I say, that's a different project for next year.
The Budget on this particular project precludes a Radical so I have to make the choice between Cerbie 4.2 or 4.5
[quote=SXS ]To be honest with you, I'm with Joo on this one, the 4.2 is a better choice for trackdays....!
Plus, if you can get your hands on an early one, it will have a higher compression ratio... better throttle response and some crazy torque bumps!...
[/quote]
Reliable (relatively) ?
When you say early, how early ?
Do you think I should forget the 2002 4.5 then ?
Plus, if you can get your hands on an early one, it will have a higher compression ratio... better throttle response and some crazy torque bumps!...
[/quote] Reliable (relatively) ?
When you say early, how early ?
Do you think I should forget the 2002 4.5 then ?
I'll be honest, ok I love the 4.5 standard, but her characteristics are no where near as thrilling as the 4.2 in the low end... she only comes into a league of her own when you're going way past 90mph....
I tried a couple of 4.2s and they just feel a lot more responsive and reactive... try a sorted 4.2 out and a sorted 4.5 and take your pic, but if trackdays are your thing, a nice 97 4.2 is in order, especially if it comes with an 11:1 engine... not only do you save a wad of cash, but you can spend that 4-6k on doing her up... some lightweight racing alloys and nice large tyres, and some AVO's or nitrons... sorted... ! - and get joospeed to do it up for you and set it up for the track... trust me... I'm a 4.5 owner, not biased in the least...
I tried a couple of 4.2s and they just feel a lot more responsive and reactive... try a sorted 4.2 out and a sorted 4.5 and take your pic, but if trackdays are your thing, a nice 97 4.2 is in order, especially if it comes with an 11:1 engine... not only do you save a wad of cash, but you can spend that 4-6k on doing her up... some lightweight racing alloys and nice large tyres, and some AVO's or nitrons... sorted... ! - and get joospeed to do it up for you and set it up for the track... trust me... I'm a 4.5 owner, not biased in the least...
JNJ,
Its down to POT luck mate, I had my 4.2 for
six months , then the Shite hit the fan,
1) recon axle(1.2k)
2) Relpacement fuel lines(loads of work here)
3) Engine now being recon(tune of 4.5k)
4) New radiator (150)
5) Front and rear pads
6) Electrical problems wipers
7) Bonnet stays broken /replaced.
Quite honestly the list goes on.
I'm not slagging the car out here, I love the
Frikin thing , but boy oh boy , it certainly
makes you boil sometimes. As far as track use is concerned , well as a few fellow Pistonheads have
pointed out as long as you can pay for the fun
go for it!.
Its down to POT luck mate, I had my 4.2 for
six months , then the Shite hit the fan,
1) recon axle(1.2k)
2) Relpacement fuel lines(loads of work here)
3) Engine now being recon(tune of 4.5k)
4) New radiator (150)
5) Front and rear pads
6) Electrical problems wipers
7) Bonnet stays broken /replaced.
Quite honestly the list goes on.
I'm not slagging the car out here, I love the
Frikin thing , but boy oh boy , it certainly
makes you boil sometimes. As far as track use is concerned , well as a few fellow Pistonheads have
pointed out as long as you can pay for the fun
go for it!.
stas said:
JNJ,
Its down to POT luck mate, I had my 4.2 for
six months , then the Shite hit the fan,
1) recon axle(1.2k)
2) Relpacement fuel lines(loads of work here)
3) Engine now being recon(tune of 4.5k)
4) New radiator (150)
5) Front and rear pads
6) Electrical problems wipers
7) Bonnet stays broken /replaced.
Quite honestly the list goes on.
I'm not slagging the car out here, I love the
Frikin thing , but boy oh boy , it certainly
makes you boil sometimes. As far as track use is concerned , well as a few fellow Pistonheads have
pointed out as long as you can pay for the fun
go for it!.
Hi Stas
How old was the car when you had to have the engine recon' & how many miles & why ? - had you tracked it much beforehand ? - Is it a "voluntary" engine re-fresh or circumstances forced upon you ?
All the other things you sort of expect with almost any TVR.
I can understand your frustration, owning 2 TVRs myself. You can't help but love 'em (for at least some of the time !) but bloody hell, you feel as though PW's just been having a laugh on us all these years (& now he's laughing all the way to the bank !).
You do get the feeling sometimes that TVRs are made from any old bits of string & sellotape found lying around the factory floor !
Cheers
Had a 4.5 but now drive a 4.2 with those clattery cams. I'd say go for a 4.2 with the savings on suspension and to help it breathe. Only time a 4.5 will outdo a 4.2 is over 150 mph and my only experience of a track day says you're hardly going to do that very often.
Reliability is six and two threes which ever one you go for.
Reliability is six and two threes which ever one you go for.
I've got a 4.2 that I've done a few track days in, and its been fine. I did notice oil pressure dropping slightly on sweeping bends, so keeping an eye on the oil level is a good idea.
Removing the rear anti-roll bay seemed to make it much less prone to spinning (obviously nothing to do with my driving skill
)
The others make valid points about the Cerbera not being ideally suited for the track, but you could say the same about any road car. They're too heavy and the setup for the road always compromises the track performance.
However, track days are for fun, and if you're not doing it in a car you like, then what’s the point?
What about that stealth Cerbera that was discussed here a few weeks ago? That’s been setup for track days only.
Removing the rear anti-roll bay seemed to make it much less prone to spinning (obviously nothing to do with my driving skill
) The others make valid points about the Cerbera not being ideally suited for the track, but you could say the same about any road car. They're too heavy and the setup for the road always compromises the track performance.
However, track days are for fun, and if you're not doing it in a car you like, then what’s the point?
What about that stealth Cerbera that was discussed here a few weeks ago? That’s been setup for track days only.
Boosted Ls1 said:
Saab 9000 - the ultimate driving machine!
Ash, Have you had one of these for track day use, what were your thoughts about it?
Boosted.
My uncle had one (before he jumped into a people carrier!), it was an outright 911 eater! at negligible running costs.... he had upgraded everything internally and was running a shortblock and had everything from polly brushes to a locking box put in... cost him next to nothing to build it, and his best 1/4 mile was 11.2secs..... the weight distribution made it interesting, you literally could drive the car sideways and you always felt the chassis respond and you knew exactly when to flick it back!... I had a few goes in her, but nothing crazy.... I loved the performance - but the rust was literally eating the car up... he had plans to get a new bodyshape moulded from glassfibre to his style... but kids came along and the wife got bitchy - so she ended up with some 65year old who loved saabs - god knows where she is now... probably rusting away in some dead old farts garage....
Gassing Station | Cerbera | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff