Gearbox, clutch?
Discussion
Im not sure if this is bad news, or normal, or a sign of wear but...
Whilst parked after the fox hunting today (the fox was of the radio transmitter ilk) I needed to reverse and couldnt get the car into gear, any gear. I didnt force it (praps I should have?) but whilst trying to get into backpedal gear (tried 5th, then 1st, 3rd etc) it just didnt want to know. Eventually Got it into reverse after 15 seconds of struggle!!
Ive also found shifting into first at lights rather challenging on a few occasions, sometimes it pops right in, other times it requires a lot of force! Same with second, I think. Same with other gears. Im not sure as its intermittant. Also, its hard to say which as Ive only had the car since yesterday. This occurs when warm after hours of driving (not a case of needing warming up) ... My worst fear is that the clutch or gearbox or some such has seen better days, but I have no idea. Praps its normal?
One other thing... third sort of sucks the stick into position, the knob flies into place. However... in third (and only in third) I can feel the "whatever it is that goes" round actually biting the gear, despite the clutch being depressed fully.
Chaps?? Ive done less than 100 miles, could it be serious?
Whilst parked after the fox hunting today (the fox was of the radio transmitter ilk) I needed to reverse and couldnt get the car into gear, any gear. I didnt force it (praps I should have?) but whilst trying to get into backpedal gear (tried 5th, then 1st, 3rd etc) it just didnt want to know. Eventually Got it into reverse after 15 seconds of struggle!!
Ive also found shifting into first at lights rather challenging on a few occasions, sometimes it pops right in, other times it requires a lot of force! Same with second, I think. Same with other gears. Im not sure as its intermittant. Also, its hard to say which as Ive only had the car since yesterday. This occurs when warm after hours of driving (not a case of needing warming up) ... My worst fear is that the clutch or gearbox or some such has seen better days, but I have no idea. Praps its normal?
One other thing... third sort of sucks the stick into position, the knob flies into place. However... in third (and only in third) I can feel the "whatever it is that goes" round actually biting the gear, despite the clutch being depressed fully.
Chaps?? Ive done less than 100 miles, could it be serious?
From the first part of your post, I'd say clutch problems. Front the second part of your post I'd say box.
I suppose the only way to know is getting it checked out. If you keep driving her, you could make what might be a simple fix into a BIG costly job.
Goodluck bud!
The niggles have started
- no pun intended!
I suppose the only way to know is getting it checked out. If you keep driving her, you could make what might be a simple fix into a BIG costly job.
Goodluck bud!
The niggles have started
- no pun intended!I always put the car into 3rd or 5th, before it goes into reverse.
When I had problems getting mine it into gear, any gear, it turned out to be broken fingers on the clutch that had broke off. It was ok when the car was switched off, but not when the car was on. This was an instant problem; not one that got worst.
Hope its not the clutch, as I know you've just got it. Without lookin back over your recent posts, if you've got it from a dealer, take it back.
When I had problems getting mine it into gear, any gear, it turned out to be broken fingers on the clutch that had broke off. It was ok when the car was switched off, but not when the car was on. This was an instant problem; not one that got worst.
Hope its not the clutch, as I know you've just got it. Without lookin back over your recent posts, if you've got it from a dealer, take it back.
UKBob. many people ask me why it is I run a V8S instead of a cerbera when it's cerberas I'm known for .. well it's exactly because of things like this. Your V8s and mine run for miles and miles and never give us any grief. With a cerbie it *will* give you grief at some point, and it's likely to be expensive.
Bad luck old boy, hope they can get it sorted back at the dealers for you asap.
Bad luck old boy, hope they can get it sorted back at the dealers for you asap.
UKbob said:
Im not sure if this is bad news, or normal, or a sign of wear but...
Whilst parked after the fox hunting today (the fox was of the radio transmitter ilk) I needed to reverse and couldnt get the car into gear, any gear. I didnt force it (praps I should have?) but whilst trying to get into backpedal gear (tried 5th, then 1st, 3rd etc) it just didnt want to know. Eventually Got it into reverse after 15 seconds of struggle!!
Ive also found shifting into first at lights rather challenging on a few occasions, sometimes it pops right in, other times it requires a lot of force! Same with second, I think. Same with other gears. Im not sure as its intermittant. Also, its hard to say which as Ive only had the car since yesterday. This occurs when warm after hours of driving (not a case of needing warming up) ... My worst fear is that the clutch or gearbox or some such has seen better days, but I have no idea. Praps its normal?
One other thing... third sort of sucks the stick into position, the knob flies into place. However... in third (and only in third) I can feel the "whatever it is that goes" round actually biting the gear, despite the clutch being depressed fully.
Chaps?? Ive done less than 100 miles, could it be serious?
Rob
Forgive a S owner for intruding on here, but your link led me to the Cerb forum. Just to say my V8S started doing this. Dreaded the worst then rather than bleeding the clutch I changed the fluid, 100% better. I spoke to the Tiv dealer who explained fluid should be changed once a year and when you consider how close to the exhaust the slave cylinder is, it is bound to pickup more than a little heat. Especially with a new owner/loon hooning his way around the Sussex countryside. Just a thought! Doesn't have to be bad news.
>> Edited by oldred on Sunday 23 January 18:23
Fincancially Im worried/not happy, but bought fully expecting to replace every mechanical part on the car over the years (I intend to keep her a long while).
Please, 2 things.
1) Keep posting with opinions, if only seconding that which others have said. Ideally you lot would drive it yourself (problems only seemed to start today) but thats the best description I could give textually.
2) Despite dealers not really covering mechanical wear issues (I was told they wouldnt) surely everything should be 100% covered within the first 500 miles?
Please, 2 things.
1) Keep posting with opinions, if only seconding that which others have said. Ideally you lot would drive it yourself (problems only seemed to start today) but thats the best description I could give textually.
2) Despite dealers not really covering mechanical wear issues (I was told they wouldnt) surely everything should be 100% covered within the first 500 miles?
Have you checked your clutch fluid.
If it's empty and in the driver footwell it's the master cylinder (cheap-ish), if it's empty and nowhere to be seen or under the car then it's the slave cylinder (expensive-ish). If the fluid is ok, then I would probably go with clutch finger thingies from info on here but I've no experience of them.
When my slave went it was a case of there when I hit the motorway, gone when I came off the motorway (100 miles later though).
If it's empty and in the driver footwell it's the master cylinder (cheap-ish), if it's empty and nowhere to be seen or under the car then it's the slave cylinder (expensive-ish). If the fluid is ok, then I would probably go with clutch finger thingies from info on here but I've no experience of them.
When my slave went it was a case of there when I hit the motorway, gone when I came off the motorway (100 miles later though).
UKbob said:
2) Despite dealers not really covering mechanical wear issues (I was told they wouldnt) surely everything should be 100% covered within the first 500 miles?
You've only had it a day. If it is the clutch/seals that have gone, even though I've personally not had anything to do with Dream Machines, I would think that they would be ok. They are a well known TVR dealer.
kojak said:We will see
2) Despite dealers not really covering mechanical wear issues (I was told they wouldnt) surely everything should be 100% covered within the first 500 miles?
You've only had it a day. If it is the clutch/seals that have gone, even though I've personally not had anything to do with Dream Machines, I would think that they would be ok. They are a well known TVR dealer.
I didnt agree with Tonys less than £850 yearly maintenance figure, but perhaps he has more confidence with the cars he sells than I do. I hope if there is a problem, its sorted. And properly! Ive not yet done 100 miles. Funny that it should start today, didnt seem noticible yesterday. Anyone else got thoughts, or confirmation of already mentioned possibilities?
joospeed said:
UKBob. many people ask me why it is I run a V8S instead of a cerbera when it's cerberas I'm known for .. well it's exactly because of things like this. Your V8s and mine run for miles and miles and never give us any grief. With a cerbie it *will* give you grief at some point, and it's likely to be expensive.
Bad luck old boy, hope they can get it sorted back at the dealers for you asap.
Yup, I remember when you said you can get front and rear discs and pads for the same price as one cerbera bit... Its disconcerting, but at the end of the day, Cerberas are cursed in one way or another for just looking toooo damn good on the road... I made it a habit to pray before I started her up... I'd recommend all become very religious and when sitting round the table for evening supper, include "and thank-god for watching over me and my cerbera" (dont include the wife or g/f, as thats asking for tooo much
SXS said:Comments noted Jools. Its a shame indeed, imagine how happy we would all be if they engineered to last (like fords
joospeed said:
UKBob. many people ask me why it is I run a V8S instead of a cerbera when it's cerberas I'm known for .. well it's exactly because of things like this. Your V8s and mine run for miles and miles and never give us any grief. With a cerbie it *will* give you grief at some point, and it's likely to be expensive.
Bad luck old boy, hope they can get it sorted back at the dealers for you asap.
Yup, I remember when you said you can get front and rear discs and pads for the same price as one cerbera bit... Its disconcerting, but at the end of the day, Cerberas are cursed in one way or another for just looking toooo damn good on the road... I made it a habit to pray before I started her up... I'd recommend all become very religious and when sitting round the table for evening supper, include "and thank-god for watching over me and my cerbera" (dont include the wife or g/f, as thats asking for tooo much
) Money and whether its your daily hack aside, that said, it seems to be the case that when they need work, owners are usually willing to pay the price.
>> Edited by UKbob on Sunday 23 January 19:06
UKbob said:
Anyone else got thoughts, or confirmation of already mentioned possibilities?
Poor Greg (gbbird) just before christmas went through 2 clutches! Currently I believe Joospeed will be installing another...
Its pushed Greg to the edge of selling his, especially after a BIG spending spree last year on keeping her on the road with servicing and nitrons etc...
Rob, you went in well-informed, usually people dont take my advice and I hope they are enthusiasts, because enthusiasm is what you will need if they turn around and give you a BIG bill to sort this out...
Based on my 'limited' understanding of the cerbera (after owning 3 so far)
* I'd say, you could have a failed clutch bearing
* Clutch hydraulics failing (check for any leaks underneath)
* Gear linkage failure or on the way out
* Clutch disc worn to near extinction and sticking
First things first, grab a torch and check under the driver footwell up front of it, and see if you can see any fluid dripping etc. Also, open the bonnet, and have a quick smell, can smell a distinct burning smell, like metal friction burning smell...
Also, if you pump the clutch pedal when the car is switched off, does the pedal get a little stiff in reaction? (make sure you're in neutral)
Hmmm, if there is nothing out of the ordinary, it could be a box failure, but that is normally rare, unless the box mounting is loose, and exceptional wear and tear could have been the culprit?...
I would have thought that Dream Machines would have inspected the car, top to bottom including box/clutch/fluids etc...
I've noted that you said you have not been giving it large, so I'd assume you havent been burning-out and slipping...
When going up hill, do you have some problems and have to shift right down? If so, again that could point to a slipping clutch meaning a new clutch is in order....
If the culprit is the clutch, then you're looking at around 1500 odd to get one mounted. Hopefully DM can be fair and not charge labour?...
I'm blabbing on, the truth is, you cant be sure until you've torn it apart if the regular symptoms are not showing....
Labour for the removal of this kit is not cheap sadly.
Most if not all of those symptoms would come from the clutch not releasing properly. If you're lucky it may just need bleeding. If you're unlucky it may need a new release bearing, clutch slave, you might need to replace the clutch itself, all doable but £££.
If it seems reluctant to go into gear you may find it helps to pump the clutch and try again.
If the clutch is dragging, it will increase the wear on the gearbox synchros in which case you might find you need a 'box rebuild before long. Best sort the clutch problems asap before it damages the 'box.
In your situation I would start by asking the seller what the problem is and what they intend to do about it.
If it seems reluctant to go into gear you may find it helps to pump the clutch and try again.
If the clutch is dragging, it will increase the wear on the gearbox synchros in which case you might find you need a 'box rebuild before long. Best sort the clutch problems asap before it damages the 'box.
In your situation I would start by asking the seller what the problem is and what they intend to do about it.
How many clutches has Gbird had in how many months?
Im not going to tinker, its going straight back to the dealer. A chim owner came round just now... said dream machines said to him cerb gears were very stiff! Im now wondering about that! but... yesterday it seemed ok, today not so
If stiff gears are not normal, there is a problem.
But re: the 'BIG' bill, Ive driven her slow and easy for less than 100 miles, are you implying that I might have to foot the repair costs myself, despite having just bought from a dealer yesterday only yesterday?
I dont have any cash right now, but IF in 12 months (for arguments sake) I needed a new engine... Im the type that would be willing to pay for one to get my P&J back on the road, rather than sell on. Im also the type to name and shame, whether on or offline.
I gathered that a wear and tear warranty would not apply for the whole of the first year, but am left wondering. If there is a problem, who does everyone feel should foot the bill, given that I only bought the car yesterday.
Im not going to tinker, its going straight back to the dealer. A chim owner came round just now... said dream machines said to him cerb gears were very stiff! Im now wondering about that! but... yesterday it seemed ok, today not so
If stiff gears are not normal, there is a problem. But re: the 'BIG' bill, Ive driven her slow and easy for less than 100 miles, are you implying that I might have to foot the repair costs myself, despite having just bought from a dealer yesterday only yesterday?
I dont have any cash right now, but IF in 12 months (for arguments sake) I needed a new engine... Im the type that would be willing to pay for one to get my P&J back on the road, rather than sell on. Im also the type to name and shame, whether on or offline.
I gathered that a wear and tear warranty would not apply for the whole of the first year, but am left wondering. If there is a problem, who does everyone feel should foot the bill, given that I only bought the car yesterday.
alderley said:
I hope it is not anything big. If it is and the dealer is reluctant to help, perhaps it may help if you let slip that you have ashed PHers for advice and that a lot of cerb owners will be very impressed to find how well DM has treated you (assuming they do treat you well)!
Im the kind of guy that would spend a few afternoons calling up national papers, looking for a buyer for a dealer horror story. Childish praps, when it comes to people Im a live and let live, live and forgive, live and learn type. When it comes to money, its a different kettle of fish.
A little OTT, but even so, within 12 months Id likely have spoken to 200 odd people about my car, and likely have mentioned the dealers name more times than not.
Im not even sure I have a problem, I just think I do, will cross what bridges may come when they come
Regardless of wether you bought it with a warranty or not, dealers still have to provide some sort of warranty for a minimum 3 months I believe. It comes under the 'fit for purpose' thing and has to cover a reasonable time. There is a way they get round this by selling 'as seen' and by having you sign some forms saying that you are buying as an non roadworthy vehicle or something like that.
Granted, you wouldn't be able to get away with a new set of brake pads or that but they should do something about a clutch, especially if your car is fairly low miles.
Granted, you wouldn't be able to get away with a new set of brake pads or that but they should do something about a clutch, especially if your car is fairly low miles.
Frankly Bob, I haven't a clue what it is, and I nearly pass out everytime I open the bonnet - it's just too damn scary under there what with all these things going round and round and making funny noises.
I do however believe in a customers rights - DM are a main dealer. Bunk work, get in there tomorrow morning, better still leave them a phone message tonight to flag up the issue.
Persuade/threaten/cajole/shout/beg/scream/plead. 24 hours after sale? Remind them of the Sale of Goods act, and come to an arrangement. I'd push for the whole lot, whatever it is, but settle for 50% parts and nil labour. Otherwise, what in hell's the point of buying from a main dealer....?
*rant mode off*
I do however believe in a customers rights - DM are a main dealer. Bunk work, get in there tomorrow morning, better still leave them a phone message tonight to flag up the issue.
Persuade/threaten/cajole/shout/beg/scream/plead. 24 hours after sale? Remind them of the Sale of Goods act, and come to an arrangement. I'd push for the whole lot, whatever it is, but settle for 50% parts and nil labour. Otherwise, what in hell's the point of buying from a main dealer....?
*rant mode off*
UK Bob .. if I were you I'd ask for the thread to be stopped before it goes any further. i know I'd take a dim view of people discussing a car I'd just sold if I hadn't as yet had chance to put it right. Dream machines are a great team and I'm sure they sent the car out believing it was 100% right.
these things happen, but discuss with them first what action they're going to take .. i can see this thread deteriorating into a bash-the-dealers one and dream machines haven't even been contacted yet from what i can tell ...
for what it's worth, some cerbera gearboxes do seem reluctant to come out of third gear when hot, it's not common, but it's not *un-common* either if you get my drift. I suspect you might have to elarn to live with that one .. but ask tehm about the clutch issue, they'll probably be very obliging and sort you out with minimal hassle. I've only heard good things about them, and teh little business I've done with them has been amicable and professional.
I'm sure they'll see you right.
best wishes
joo
these things happen, but discuss with them first what action they're going to take .. i can see this thread deteriorating into a bash-the-dealers one and dream machines haven't even been contacted yet from what i can tell ...
for what it's worth, some cerbera gearboxes do seem reluctant to come out of third gear when hot, it's not common, but it's not *un-common* either if you get my drift. I suspect you might have to elarn to live with that one .. but ask tehm about the clutch issue, they'll probably be very obliging and sort you out with minimal hassle. I've only heard good things about them, and teh little business I've done with them has been amicable and professional.
I'm sure they'll see you right.
best wishes
joo
Cheers Red. Im not sure what my rights are, but would go a long way indeed to get what I feel is fair. 50% when I bought yesterday is nothing short of outrageous, Id feel more inclined to call it "spend an afternoon finding a national paper who would but a horror story" time. Rights or not, id go the distance. Id be well up for this and more after 6 months, its a cerb afterall. But not when I bought yesterday...
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