AJP Engine Rebuild.
Discussion
I`m going to ask the `how long is a piece of string` question here to the Cerbera cognoscenti.....what would you consider the average cost for a full AJP engine rebuild at a reputable specialist to be?
The reason for asking is I have owned my 4.5 for over 10 years now, its got 47k miles on it , there are no serious engine issues , it leaks a bit of oil, the timing chains have stretched a bit, it could do with new water rails and I`m seriously considering an engine refresh/rebuild.
I have a figure in mind but I`m asking those amongst you who have possibly had their engine rebuilt recently what is considered a fair price for an engine rebuild....is it a 4 figure or 5 figure sum ?
It may be frowned upon asking such a question.....but someone has to ask it.....!
The reason for asking is I have owned my 4.5 for over 10 years now, its got 47k miles on it , there are no serious engine issues , it leaks a bit of oil, the timing chains have stretched a bit, it could do with new water rails and I`m seriously considering an engine refresh/rebuild.
I have a figure in mind but I`m asking those amongst you who have possibly had their engine rebuilt recently what is considered a fair price for an engine rebuild....is it a 4 figure or 5 figure sum ?
It may be frowned upon asking such a question.....but someone has to ask it.....!
Just had mine done locally and this is the list for parts alone.
£1700 - Pistons w rings
£1600 - Rods
£250 - Oil Pump Overhaul Kit
£200 - Valve guides
£250 - Valves
£225 - Head Gaskets
£150 - Main and big end bearings
£200 - Other Gaskets and Bearings (Half time, chain case etc)
£250 new set of piston rings (if necessary)
Arguably this is for the 4.7, but it gives you an idea of your costs
As for your water rails, sand blast zinc coat and then powder them, I did mine and they come up Looking better than new!
Incidently, similar miles, about 50k found that the valves were VERY VERY worn (nearly 0.5mm play!!) and one of the big ends was just wearing in to the white metal.
TO be honest, I could have reused my pistons and rods as they bore to piston clearance was in spec.
So for you all of the above without pistons and rods + machining and pressing of guides I would say 4k-5k would be around the right sort of figure.
Jody
£1700 - Pistons w rings
£1600 - Rods
£250 - Oil Pump Overhaul Kit
£200 - Valve guides
£250 - Valves
£225 - Head Gaskets
£150 - Main and big end bearings
£200 - Other Gaskets and Bearings (Half time, chain case etc)
£250 new set of piston rings (if necessary)
Arguably this is for the 4.7, but it gives you an idea of your costs
As for your water rails, sand blast zinc coat and then powder them, I did mine and they come up Looking better than new!
Incidently, similar miles, about 50k found that the valves were VERY VERY worn (nearly 0.5mm play!!) and one of the big ends was just wearing in to the white metal.
TO be honest, I could have reused my pistons and rods as they bore to piston clearance was in spec.
So for you all of the above without pistons and rods + machining and pressing of guides I would say 4k-5k would be around the right sort of figure.
Jody
Edited by tofts on Thursday 7th April 20:25
tofts said:
Just had mine done locally and this is the list for parts alone.
£1700 - Pistons
£1600 - Rods
£250 - Oil Pump Overhaul Kit
£200 - Valve guides
£250 - Valves
£225 - Head Gaskets
£150 - Main and big end bearings
£200 - Other Gaskets and Bearings (Half time, chain case etc)
Arguably this is for the 4.7, but it gives you an idea of your costs
As for your water rails, sand blast zinc coat and then powder them, I did mine and they come up Looking better than new!
Incidently, similar miles, about 50k found that the valves were VERY VERY worn (nearly 0.5mm play!!) and one of the big ends was just wearing in to the white metal.
...£1700 - Pistons
£1600 - Rods
£250 - Oil Pump Overhaul Kit
£200 - Valve guides
£250 - Valves
£225 - Head Gaskets
£150 - Main and big end bearings
£200 - Other Gaskets and Bearings (Half time, chain case etc)
Arguably this is for the 4.7, but it gives you an idea of your costs
As for your water rails, sand blast zinc coat and then powder them, I did mine and they come up Looking better than new!
Incidently, similar miles, about 50k found that the valves were VERY VERY worn (nearly 0.5mm play!!) and one of the big ends was just wearing in to the white metal.
....have you had chance to exploit the benefits of your 4.7 yet ?.....if so how do you compare the before and after ?
Erm, nope, but I have heard very good things, better torque, and the 4.5 induction works much better with the capacity increase.
There are a few on here who have dared, but its a lot of extra money for (lets face it) not a great deal of extra performance.
The thing is still in pieces, I'm in the process of porting and gas flowing the heads, so I can't comment, but in the next couple of weeks I will let you know....
There are a few on here who have dared, but its a lot of extra money for (lets face it) not a great deal of extra performance.
The thing is still in pieces, I'm in the process of porting and gas flowing the heads, so I can't comment, but in the next couple of weeks I will let you know....
tofts said:
Erm, nope, but I have heard very good things, better torque, and the 4.5 induction works much better with the capacity increase.
There are a few on here who have dared, but its a lot of extra money for (lets face it) not a great deal of extra performance.
The thing is still in pieces, I'm in the process of porting and gas flowing the heads, so I can't comment, but in the next couple of weeks I will let you know....
I look forward to reading your comments...thank you for your reply.There are a few on here who have dared, but its a lot of extra money for (lets face it) not a great deal of extra performance.
The thing is still in pieces, I'm in the process of porting and gas flowing the heads, so I can't comment, but in the next couple of weeks I will let you know....
esso said:
tofts said:
Just had mine done locally and this is the list for parts alone.
£1700 - Pistons
£1600 - Rods
£250 - Oil Pump Overhaul Kit
£200 - Valve guides
£250 - Valves
£225 - Head Gaskets
£150 - Main and big end bearings
£200 - Other Gaskets and Bearings (Half time, chain case etc)
Arguably this is for the 4.7, but it gives you an idea of your costs
As for your water rails, sand blast zinc coat and then powder them, I did mine and they come up Looking better than new!
Incidently, similar miles, about 50k found that the valves were VERY VERY worn (nearly 0.5mm play!!) and one of the big ends was just wearing in to the white metal.
...£1700 - Pistons
£1600 - Rods
£250 - Oil Pump Overhaul Kit
£200 - Valve guides
£250 - Valves
£225 - Head Gaskets
£150 - Main and big end bearings
£200 - Other Gaskets and Bearings (Half time, chain case etc)
Arguably this is for the 4.7, but it gives you an idea of your costs
As for your water rails, sand blast zinc coat and then powder them, I did mine and they come up Looking better than new!
Incidently, similar miles, about 50k found that the valves were VERY VERY worn (nearly 0.5mm play!!) and one of the big ends was just wearing in to the white metal.
....have you had chance to exploit the benefits of your 4.7 yet ?.....if so how do you compare the before and after ?
There is a very noticeable differene.
The engine is more tractable from low revs and once on cam it is just great, noticeably faster than before the rebuild when was only offering 402 horses.
Sorry for jumping on the band wagon…….costs i can track down……..but how often does an V8 need rebuilding??
I've heard that some cars hit 100k no worries and others 40k and eat their blocks ….. due to erratic service intervals ?? Regular track/road thrashes?? I'm sure that no two cars are ever alike…one is a track weapon..the other a garage queen…….
But……..
The million dollar rebuild question is……….how long between open heart surgery ???
What have you guys experienced ??
I guess regular service and maintenance are far more important to this breed than most………
I've heard that some cars hit 100k no worries and others 40k and eat their blocks ….. due to erratic service intervals ?? Regular track/road thrashes?? I'm sure that no two cars are ever alike…one is a track weapon..the other a garage queen…….
But……..
The million dollar rebuild question is……….how long between open heart surgery ???
What have you guys experienced ??
I guess regular service and maintenance are far more important to this breed than most………
Hard to say really, there are a few that have done 100K miles without issue and many that have done 60-80k, the servicing is the issue I would say.
Mine was done at 50k but the engine was strong but the head gaskets were starting to weep coolant up the head bolts so I did mine as a preventative measure which seems to be the major reason for an AJP rebuild, that snapped cranks and timing chains.
Overall the engine is strong and reliable.
Mine was done at 50k but the engine was strong but the head gaskets were starting to weep coolant up the head bolts so I did mine as a preventative measure which seems to be the major reason for an AJP rebuild, that snapped cranks and timing chains.
Overall the engine is strong and reliable.
Agentofposeidon said:
Sorry esso….that was a total hijack…same idea AJP rebuild ……but different angle…milage rather than cost…….ive heard of lots of crank issues recently….or timing chain bolts,,,etc,,trying to outguess my new purchase…..i realise that it is also a futile effort…..
Crank issues? Where? I've not heard of one of those for quite a while now I don't think.Jhonno said:
Agentofposeidon said:
Sorry esso….that was a total hijack…same idea AJP rebuild ……but different angle…milage rather than cost…….ive heard of lots of crank issues recently….or timing chain bolts,,,etc,,trying to outguess my new purchase…..i realise that it is also a futile effort…..
Crank issues? Where? I've not heard of one of those for quite a while now I don't think.Basically a strong reliable engine.
Indeed, crank issues are quite rare these days, as they would be very early cars, and most of them have either died or been changed so as not to prevent further issues.
I think that the longevity of the engine is down to a number of things, running in, servicing, warm up etc? How many things do you want to think of! On my engine, the number one issue, that was not apparent when running was just how bad the valve train was. The original guides were so worn, you could not just feel but physically see a lot of movement. I think the only reason that this didn't cause issues is that I always let it warm up considerably before giving it any kick.
Generally, if you treat it with the respect it deserves, it should give you a long life and I don't think that 100k is unreasonable. The piston to liner spec is about 3-4 thou in the TVR book, and mine were still within that tolerance at 50k, and I see no reason it should do it again. The block itself has been described as being so strong you could use it as a "stressed member" and to be honest the design does look that way. Back in the 90s this was formula 1 technology from the heads down.
You probably can get these cheaper, but There is a lot of R&D in the pistons themselves, I mean, they have a dish and a protrusion to get the correct combustion volume along with having different offsets that were never put in from factory to balance them out. The guys that had them built know what they are doing as they did it for TVR direct, which speaks volumes. Don't forget there was probably only about 2500 of these engines ever made! so its not a high production unit
I think that the longevity of the engine is down to a number of things, running in, servicing, warm up etc? How many things do you want to think of! On my engine, the number one issue, that was not apparent when running was just how bad the valve train was. The original guides were so worn, you could not just feel but physically see a lot of movement. I think the only reason that this didn't cause issues is that I always let it warm up considerably before giving it any kick.
Generally, if you treat it with the respect it deserves, it should give you a long life and I don't think that 100k is unreasonable. The piston to liner spec is about 3-4 thou in the TVR book, and mine were still within that tolerance at 50k, and I see no reason it should do it again. The block itself has been described as being so strong you could use it as a "stressed member" and to be honest the design does look that way. Back in the 90s this was formula 1 technology from the heads down.
You probably can get these cheaper, but There is a lot of R&D in the pistons themselves, I mean, they have a dish and a protrusion to get the correct combustion volume along with having different offsets that were never put in from factory to balance them out. The guys that had them built know what they are doing as they did it for TVR direct, which speaks volumes. Don't forget there was probably only about 2500 of these engines ever made! so its not a high production unit
esso said:
its got 47k miles on it
Hi Al, mine had 47198 miles when it had it's full engine rebuild.As you already know the cost varies massively depending on who does the work and what parts are used.
The labour on mine cost £3400 alone.
If you start adding things like H section billet rods, camshafts, new cylinder liners and bespoke copper head gaskets the cost rapidly increases.
Kind regards
Simon
SimonKD said:
Hi Al, mine had 47198 miles when it had it's full engine rebuild.
As you already know the cost varies massively depending on who does the work and what parts are used.
The labour on mine cost £3400 alone.
If you start adding things like H section billet rods, camshafts, new cylinder liners and bespoke copper head gaskets the cost rapidly increases.
Kind regards
Simon
Simon....did you have these parts fitted when you had yours rebuilt ?As you already know the cost varies massively depending on who does the work and what parts are used.
The labour on mine cost £3400 alone.
If you start adding things like H section billet rods, camshafts, new cylinder liners and bespoke copper head gaskets the cost rapidly increases.
Kind regards
Simon
Regards
Al.
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