Problems putting geRbox back in - 4.5
Discussion
What a nightmare - don't let anybody fool you into thinking taking the gearbox out and putting it back again is easy.
It certainly is not! Rolling around on your back with the dead weight gearbox is no fun at all.
Right.
1) Slave seals done and gearbox put back in upside down and attempted to get bell housing back in - FAIL because the input shaft was blocking the bell housing. It would not move back anymore. Very confusing as I originally moved the gearbox back enough to remove the bell housing!
2) Bell housing in and attempted to put gearbox back in - FAIL because the gap is too small with the exhausts in the way.
3) Passenger side exhaust manifold undone so it can move down, attempted to get gearbox in - FAIL as still not enough room to get gearbox by.
Do I now have to undo the drivers side manifold also? The problem here is the bolts are totally inaccessible and the water rail will have to be removed. Another job to do before I can get on with the previous job and then the previous if you know what I mean? The water rail bolts are so tight I cannot get them off and have bent 2 spanners used as extensions for my hex!
God I HATE this car at the moment. Whatever needs to be done always needs something else taken off before hand. In this case about 10 things and counting (original issue was the clutch hydraulic slave seals).
It certainly is not! Rolling around on your back with the dead weight gearbox is no fun at all.
Right.
1) Slave seals done and gearbox put back in upside down and attempted to get bell housing back in - FAIL because the input shaft was blocking the bell housing. It would not move back anymore. Very confusing as I originally moved the gearbox back enough to remove the bell housing!
2) Bell housing in and attempted to put gearbox back in - FAIL because the gap is too small with the exhausts in the way.
3) Passenger side exhaust manifold undone so it can move down, attempted to get gearbox in - FAIL as still not enough room to get gearbox by.
Do I now have to undo the drivers side manifold also? The problem here is the bolts are totally inaccessible and the water rail will have to be removed. Another job to do before I can get on with the previous job and then the previous if you know what I mean? The water rail bolts are so tight I cannot get them off and have bent 2 spanners used as extensions for my hex!
God I HATE this car at the moment. Whatever needs to be done always needs something else taken off before hand. In this case about 10 things and counting (original issue was the clutch hydraulic slave seals).
When I did my clutch/slave I didn`t take the gearbox out completely, it can be unbolted from the bellhousing and pulled back far enough to get the bellhousing off. Therefore once you have the bellhousing on you should be able to get the gearbox past the manifolds to bolt it up. I found its easier to push the gearbox on if the clutch was pressed, the input shaft seemed to go in easier.
You would have been very lucky to seal the exhaust properly without removing the water rail, so you would probably have ended up doing so anyway. I have at last found a way to remove the coolant without making a complete mess, I use a Pela 650 and put the tube down the bleed hole to the bottom of the rad.
It's not very easy extracting the manifolds. It is well worth removing the oil line from block to filter, then the passenger side manifold will come out with minimal aggravation. Drivers side is another matter though and I find I need to loosen the engine mount and lever the engine over to create room, not easy unless you have three hands.
Take the opportunity to check the manifolds for cracks and get them welded up. When you put the manifolds back, it is essential the use the correct silicone sealant, otherwise the Lambda sensors will fail shortly afterwards.
It's not very easy extracting the manifolds. It is well worth removing the oil line from block to filter, then the passenger side manifold will come out with minimal aggravation. Drivers side is another matter though and I find I need to loosen the engine mount and lever the engine over to create room, not easy unless you have three hands.
Take the opportunity to check the manifolds for cracks and get them welded up. When you put the manifolds back, it is essential the use the correct silicone sealant, otherwise the Lambda sensors will fail shortly afterwards.
Thanks for the replies fellas,
I took the gearbox out because it was in a sorry state - just like UKKIDS in a previous post. It jumps out of first every now and then but lack of funds at the mo takes care of that one! It will just get slightly worse and I don't blast away in first anyway so should last a while. At least it is not rusty and caked in crud now. Plus the bolts will be so much easier next time around as I don't think they were removed in quite a while.
Been to Bespoke in Ware and they categorically state they put the gearbox in first and then the bell housing. Oh well, will give it another go.
Yep, it would be lovely to have a two post. I just get on with it on ramps like most of us seem to do. Sometimes it does get really annoying though! The air was dark blue yesterday!
Fingers crossed!
I took the gearbox out because it was in a sorry state - just like UKKIDS in a previous post. It jumps out of first every now and then but lack of funds at the mo takes care of that one! It will just get slightly worse and I don't blast away in first anyway so should last a while. At least it is not rusty and caked in crud now. Plus the bolts will be so much easier next time around as I don't think they were removed in quite a while.
Been to Bespoke in Ware and they categorically state they put the gearbox in first and then the bell housing. Oh well, will give it another go.
Yep, it would be lovely to have a two post. I just get on with it on ramps like most of us seem to do. Sometimes it does get really annoying though! The air was dark blue yesterday!
Fingers crossed!
Thanks for the replies fellas,
I took the gearbox out because it was in a sorry state - just like UKKIDS in a previous post. It jumps out of first every now and then but lack of funds at the mo takes care of that one! It will just get slightly worse and I don't blast away in first anyway so should last a while. At least it is not rusty and caked in crud now. Plus the bolts will be so much easier next time around as I don't think they were removed in quite a while.
Been to Bespoke in Ware and they categorically state they put the gearbox in first and then the bell housing. Oh well, will give it another go.
Yep, it would be lovely to have a two post. I just get on with it on ramps like most of us seem to do. Sometimes it does get really annoying though! The air was dark blue yesterday!
Fingers crossed!
I took the gearbox out because it was in a sorry state - just like UKKIDS in a previous post. It jumps out of first every now and then but lack of funds at the mo takes care of that one! It will just get slightly worse and I don't blast away in first anyway so should last a while. At least it is not rusty and caked in crud now. Plus the bolts will be so much easier next time around as I don't think they were removed in quite a while.
Been to Bespoke in Ware and they categorically state they put the gearbox in first and then the bell housing. Oh well, will give it another go.
Yep, it would be lovely to have a two post. I just get on with it on ramps like most of us seem to do. Sometimes it does get really annoying though! The air was dark blue yesterday!
Fingers crossed!
Wolvesboy said:
1) Slave seals done and gearbox put back in upside down and attempted to get bell housing back in - FAIL because the input shaft was blocking the bell housing. It would not move back anymore. Very confusing as I originally moved the gearbox back enough to remove the bell housing!
If it came out that way then it will go back in that way. Unless of course you have somehow made the gearbox 3 inches longer while you had it out.Hi Wolvesboy,
Sorry to here you are having so much trouble, sometimes when things just won't go your way just have a break and re-assess what you are doing. Go away, have a cup of tea, and try and work out how you can make it easeir for yourself.
As you probably know, i have been doing this myself at the moment also, admittedly mine is a 4.2 so it may vary slightly i also did it in my garage with just a trolley jack, ramps etc. What i found was that ramps were not high enough, you really need to get the car up high enough to be able to roll over from your back onto you belly, oh and place a bit of lino under the car, that way you can slide in and out and roll around better. Jack the back up also, just makes access easier to the diff bolts etc. I cut up an old 10" thick railway sleeper into 2' long sections and have the three of these each side under the front chassis, and i put the rear on axle stands. Then use the trolley jack on another section of sleeper to jack the gearbox and slide it back and a support under the sump to take the weight of the engine.
This works for me, not that a health and safety inspector would endorse it but i make sure its all safe and not going to move.
Just take your time make it as easy as possible for yourself.
Oh, and the worst thing you can do is give yourself deadlines when doing something like this, that just puts you under more pressure!!!! Take it easy, plenty of tea breaks. AND DON'T LET IT BEAT YOU!!!
Shame i'm so far away or else i would come and give you a hand mate. Keep going, if it came out its got to go back in!!!
Sorry to here you are having so much trouble, sometimes when things just won't go your way just have a break and re-assess what you are doing. Go away, have a cup of tea, and try and work out how you can make it easeir for yourself.
As you probably know, i have been doing this myself at the moment also, admittedly mine is a 4.2 so it may vary slightly i also did it in my garage with just a trolley jack, ramps etc. What i found was that ramps were not high enough, you really need to get the car up high enough to be able to roll over from your back onto you belly, oh and place a bit of lino under the car, that way you can slide in and out and roll around better. Jack the back up also, just makes access easier to the diff bolts etc. I cut up an old 10" thick railway sleeper into 2' long sections and have the three of these each side under the front chassis, and i put the rear on axle stands. Then use the trolley jack on another section of sleeper to jack the gearbox and slide it back and a support under the sump to take the weight of the engine.
This works for me, not that a health and safety inspector would endorse it but i make sure its all safe and not going to move.
Just take your time make it as easy as possible for yourself.
Oh, and the worst thing you can do is give yourself deadlines when doing something like this, that just puts you under more pressure!!!! Take it easy, plenty of tea breaks. AND DON'T LET IT BEAT YOU!!!
Shame i'm so far away or else i would come and give you a hand mate. Keep going, if it came out its got to go back in!!!
Edited by Thunderroad on Monday 16th May 21:28
When you do get the gearbox in place ready to fit, even if you've used an alignment tool to get the twin discs lined up, you will find it much much easier if you have an assistant press the clutch peddle for you. I have tried to do it without, and always end up asking my GF for help (and I always have another assistant taking the weight of the gearbox as well). I'm sure a real man can do the whole job single handed, but sometimes easier and quicker is better.
Thanks for the words Thunderroad, I appreciate them and the offer for help!
I ended up doing the same with some fence posts 10cm square. I cut them up and put them under the ramps to make the front higher again.
Thanks also UKKKID, I managed to get the gearbox back and supported it with a jack. The input shaft was raised high enough to get the bell housing back on....
YAY!
The secret is a combination of those two - making the car higher for better access and also using the jack instead of lifting it yourself.
I may have it back on the road for this weekend! 😂😂😂
I ended up doing the same with some fence posts 10cm square. I cut them up and put them under the ramps to make the front higher again.
Thanks also UKKKID, I managed to get the gearbox back and supported it with a jack. The input shaft was raised high enough to get the bell housing back on....
YAY!
The secret is a combination of those two - making the car higher for better access and also using the jack instead of lifting it yourself.
I may have it back on the road for this weekend! 😂😂😂
Thats ok Wolvesboy, glad you got it done.
I jotted my 'procedure' down on a bit of paper and now keep it in my car file. Unfortunately the 'gearbox out' routine has allready had to be done twice on mine in my three years of ownership and i dont think this is that uncommon!
The first time is a learning curve! After that its just a proceedure!
I put this job alongside the bonnet stay ball joint exchange for difficulty, phew!.....That was a tough one!!!!
I jotted my 'procedure' down on a bit of paper and now keep it in my car file. Unfortunately the 'gearbox out' routine has allready had to be done twice on mine in my three years of ownership and i dont think this is that uncommon!
The first time is a learning curve! After that its just a proceedure!
I put this job alongside the bonnet stay ball joint exchange for difficulty, phew!.....That was a tough one!!!!
Great point about not setting deadlines - not going to be on the road this weekend!
Having undone the passenger exhaust manifold to get better access, I now have to bolt it back on. Tough to get sealant on the mating surfaces but impossible to get the final bolt nearest the bulkhead back in. I have had to undo the water rail to get access to this bolt and my knuckles are now ripped to shreds! 3 bolts had to be "ripped " out with a bolt removal tool with the rest being stuck solid.
So once again 2 jobs need to be done before another is attempted (drain coolant then remove water rail)! I might as well take the engine out at this rate! Might be easier in future! What do you reckon - engine out to change the plugs?
😄😄😄
Having undone the passenger exhaust manifold to get better access, I now have to bolt it back on. Tough to get sealant on the mating surfaces but impossible to get the final bolt nearest the bulkhead back in. I have had to undo the water rail to get access to this bolt and my knuckles are now ripped to shreds! 3 bolts had to be "ripped " out with a bolt removal tool with the rest being stuck solid.
So once again 2 jobs need to be done before another is attempted (drain coolant then remove water rail)! I might as well take the engine out at this rate! Might be easier in future! What do you reckon - engine out to change the plugs?
😄😄😄
Don't forget many of the lower manifold bolt holes are in fact slots not holes. Also you will need to support the Cat end of the manifold when tightening the bolts in order to align it correctly. It is worth fitting new water rail O rings, but you may get away with reusing the old ones.
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