Life after AP clutches

[crazycats]

For those that have been following my Clutch f****d thread, I have a development.

After receiving no help from AP, I've followed many avenues to try and resolve the Cerbera clutch issue.

From looking at Tam Lins thread, it seems many cars are on their second clutch before getting to 40K.

I'm sure you'll all agree, this just isn't good enough.

Next step was to speak to somebody at the factory in an attempt to resolve the AP/Cerb contract.

They are on a week off for Easter.


So...to cut a long story short....

I am in contact with a British company who replied to one of my e-mails..........

............."we can rebuild your old one or offer a high performance Kevlar unit built to your requirements"

I currently have no idea of costs, lead times.....however my question is......who would be interested, in either a rebuilt clutch, or a completely bespoke unit?

So.....Joospeed...Austec....APM.....TopCats, and any cerb owners, what are the interest levels ???????

I'm willing to use my car/clutch as a testbed, so please let me know your thoughts.

Paul

[PHØENIX]

Respect!

Finally, someone doing something for the cerbera community.

If the cost works out at £500 a rebuild - and then installation costs ontop, that could work out a good price.

[crazycats]

PHOENIX said:

Respect! Finally, someone doing something for the cerbera community.

Thanks Ash,

Your input is appreciated.

If AP were willing to help, I'd be happy to promote them, but to be honest, their management are a bunch of spineless losers.(IMO)

There HAS to be an improved product for the everyday Cerbera owner...... through the excellent support network of independent specialists.

[Tam Lin]

crazycats said:

............."we can rebuild your old one or offer a high performance Kevlar unit built to your requirements" I'm willing to use my car/clutch as a testbed, so please let me know your thoughts.

Cool. Respect indeed.

1) See if they're willing to warranty the thing. No harm in trying..

2) See what their thoughts are on some sort of a damping ring to reduce shock loads/allow smoother take up at slight angles.

If your prototype works, there ought to be a group purchase organised: Thanks to GCerbera, a lot of us are going to CREAM2005..

We're in the process of having various bits replaced, apparently we had the old style clutch/bellhousing/flywheel etc

[crazycats]

Tam Lin said:

1) See if they're willing to warranty the thing. No harm in trying..

Very early days yet....

Not many companies will offer a guarantee on a one off trial unit.......however as I said I'm willing to try it out,

The more support I get, the more units they re-furb, manufacture, the more likely a warranty is offered.

Tam Lin said:

Thanks to GCerbera, a lot of us are going to CREAM2005..

I'll be there myself, even if I have to walk

[PHØENIX]

There will be someone organizing a convoy, meeting from South Mimms Junction on the A1/M25 intersection - including a few mechanics just in case

When we get closer to the time, the details will be up.

Hopefully other convoys can also be organized and we could all intermeet at some point on the way up.

I cant wait to see the Speed 12 on the track alongside the LeMans baby. Thats one show I wanna get on film!

But the best bit is going to be all the upgrades and bit n bobs on sale on the day for cerb owners. I believe Carbon Al will be there with a few bits n bobs and a spanner to plug them in there and then... I think even Joolz will be doing on the day Emerald tuning and upgrades so you can test your baby on the track too, unless he's blasting around the track with his project car ...

I've been waiting for a cerbie event for ages, its a bloody good thing graham came back to the fold... hands down to the G

Once the starter-motor upgrade and clutch upgrade is on offer - that pretty much cleans up the mechanical side of things that are prone to flatbed failures.

I wander - maybe Craig can do some NOS installs on the day? Probably if we all voice our needs, then he along with TVR Power can do the honours of on the day installs????

I heard a rumour that a very *special* undisclosed guest is turning up as an anniversary treat...

[dannylt]

40k isn't good enough for a clutch on a 400bhp car? Depends on the treatment it gets I expect - certainly I hardly think it's a unique TVR problem.

Mind lasted about 18k, but that was after a few drag strip days and many track days.

[Tam Lin]

dannylt said:

40k isn't good enough for a clutch on a 400bhp car? Depends on the treatment it gets I expect - certainly I hardly think it's a unique TVR problem.

Danny,
two clutches to get to 40k seems to be the average: I'll do the maths from the other thread when I have a mo. this weekend. To be honest, I thought it was going to be worse (as ours lasted nearer to 10k, and no drag strip in sight), but that may be because ours was the "early" type. The latter, 4.5 versions may be more robust, averaging 20k.

The point is that the fingers seem to be the weak point, not wear on the friction coating. Chucking a £550 component for a £30 part does seem sub-optimal, even if it makes AP Racing and TVR rich and happy.

[dannylt]

I agree the fingers breaking is crap, but not wearing out. Mine was worn out with all fingers intact.

[crazycats]

dannylt said:

I agree the fingers breaking is crap, but not wearing out. Mine was worn out with all fingers intact.

Then you are the exception to the rule, it does seem that nearly all clutches fail due to broken fingers. General wear and tear is quite acceptable, but a common fault, which nearly every car has suffered at least once, is IMO not acceptable

This is one of the Cerbera's main weaknesses, and is surely something that we can rectify, rather than just shrugging our collective shoulders and accepting it.

[dannylt]

Ok - sure, it wasn't clear that it was the fingers you were upset about from your posts!

[joospeed]

10k from a clutch is a bit low maybe, but people getting 20k from a clutch i think maybe sholdn't be too upset.

i think much of it is down to poor clutch set-up by dealers too ..

[carl_w]

Anyone tried a Helix clutch?

[PHØENIX]

carl_w said:

Anyone tried a Helix clutch?

We looked into them, but they're just another AP spinoff IMO... and they dont do anything which is patently special... so they're just another clutch maker fighting in the small playing field, but I do hear their 3-disc clutches are very impressive...

[crazycats]

Sadly, haven't had chance to persue this further today

However will be giving it my full attention next week....

[DuncanM]

crazycats said:

For those that have been following my Clutch f****d thread, I have a development. After receiving no help from AP, I've followed many avenues to try and resolve the Cerbera clutch issue. From looking at Tam Lins thread, it seems many cars are on their second clutch before getting to 40K. I'm sure you'll all agree, this just isn't good enough. Next step was to speak to somebody at the factory in an attempt to resolve the AP/Cerb contract. They are on a week off for Easter. So...to cut a long story short.... I am in contact with a British company who replied to one of my e-mails.......... ............."we can rebuild your old one or offer a high performance Kevlar unit built to your requirements" I currently have no idea of costs, lead times.....however my question is......who would be interested, in either a rebuilt clutch, or a completely bespoke unit? So.....Joospeed...Austec....APM.....TopCats, and any cerb owners, what are the interest levels ??????? I'm willing to use my car/clutch as a testbed, so please let me know your thoughts. Paul

Man you're a bonafied (sp?) Hero if you resolve this for the Cerb community .

I have done over 30k on an old school clutch at the moment and if/when it does finally give up the ghost I really don't want to put another AP clutch on there when they have what appears to be an obvious if inconsistant fault.

Duncan

[350matt]

does anyone have the materail spec of the existing finger plate? As I'd be happy to redraw a replacement in a better material, I'd need an old / broken spring plate to produce the drawing and introduce some strain relief into the design

Matt

[simonsparrow]

350matt said:

does anyone have the materail spec of the existing finger plate? As I'd be happy to redraw a replacement in a better material, I'd need an old / broken spring plate to produce the drawing and introduce some strain relief into the design Matt

Hopefully one of the unfortunates on here can help. I've noticed that there are several other vendors of multi-plate clutches with 215mm dia (I think thats the size of the Cerbera clutch), such as Tilton, Exidy etc. Could one of their diaphram springs/covers be adapted to ours?

From my two years of reading the Cerbera forum it seems to be only slave cylinders (seals) and diaphram springs that cause clutch problems (dannyit excepted ) So if there is a way to address the problematic spring, that will be fantastic!

[crazycats]

350matt said:

does anyone have the materail spec of the existing finger plate? As I'd be happy to redraw a replacement in a better material, Matt

Nice one Matt Not sure of material spec..could be blue-tack, or possibly play doh

Seriously though, unsure of spec, but hope to find out more info next week.

My clutch might be sent away next week to used as a template, so I can't supply mine for use.

However tvr-fan has just changed his clutch, and by the look of it Mad Mark is just about to embark on his, so maybe one of them would be kind enough to supply the offending item.

Thanks for the offer of a re-design, it's exactly what is needed.

Cheers

[cerber450]

We have been in lengthy discussions with AP lately and on Thursday they offered us a hybrid cerb clutch. However they have advised us that they are not the easiest to use on the road.

We've already tried a different type of AP clutch which was border line on road/track use on another car that was producing over 600lb's of torque. On the track the thing will be amazing but its almost undrivable in traffic!

The hybrid clutch offered to fit the cerbs is stronger but they are going to be retailing around £1000+VAT
I'll be trying one out in my car later this year to see if it's going to work.

There are alot of other clutch systems out there but they do require remedial works to be carried out on the flywheel or even a new one made which then again puts the price up to the £1000+ mark! So if the hybrid system works then its going to work out easier as you wont have the labour costs and time delays in messing around with the flywheel.


Craig.