Discussion
Okay, this has probably been covered off before, but I can't find the specific threads so apologies for any openings of old wounds....
I've been looking at Joo speed site and the power figures on the home page. Have I read it correctly and the standard 4.2's (in good nick) seems to be producing as much power as the 4.5s? Are they standard? What can you get from mild tuning a 4.2?
Have many people re-mapped a 4.2? (seems from the threads it's mostly 4.5's that get mapped)
If I wanted to say hit 360/370bhp, what would be the most cost effective tuning option, 4.2 or 4.5?
Cheers
(edited as I can't spell)
>>> Edited by duke thrust on Friday 15th April 21:40
>>> Edited by duke thrust on Friday 15th April 21:48
I've been looking at Joo speed site and the power figures on the home page. Have I read it correctly and the standard 4.2's (in good nick) seems to be producing as much power as the 4.5s? Are they standard? What can you get from mild tuning a 4.2?
Have many people re-mapped a 4.2? (seems from the threads it's mostly 4.5's that get mapped)
If I wanted to say hit 360/370bhp, what would be the most cost effective tuning option, 4.2 or 4.5?
Cheers
(edited as I can't spell)
>>> Edited by duke thrust on Friday 15th April 21:40
>>> Edited by duke thrust on Friday 15th April 21:48
[quote=PHØENIX]Carbon Al's 4.2 hit 360bhp - tested and proven at the Surrey Rolling Road.
Performance Upgrades:
* Emerald ECU - Joospeed fits these
* Carbon intake piping - Carbon Al sells these kits[/quote]
For the cost of the carbon bits and ECU am I better off just going for a 4.5? Looking around they seem to carry a 2-3k premium.
Performance Upgrades:
* Emerald ECU - Joospeed fits these
* Carbon intake piping - Carbon Al sells these kits[/quote]
For the cost of the carbon bits and ECU am I better off just going for a 4.5? Looking around they seem to carry a 2-3k premium.
The differences are merely cosmetic... even the breathing of a 4.2 is better than a 4.5.... (the 4.5 is more torqy if set-up right, the extra 265cc helps... and she does pull better to 170+ speeds)
If you get a good price on either, go for it... they're both beasts.... good servicing history by respected indy or dealer... and make sure you get someone to inspect it before you dive in, unless its from a garage and they supply a good warranty with it...
Just dont make the pisstake sorry, I meant mistake, of getting a speed 6 derivative
Oh and pretty soon the blue vs yellow brigade will come along...
>> Edited by PHØENIX on Friday 15th April 22:40
If you get a good price on either, go for it... they're both beasts.... good servicing history by respected indy or dealer... and make sure you get someone to inspect it before you dive in, unless its from a garage and they supply a good warranty with it...
Just dont make the pisstake sorry, I meant mistake, of getting a speed 6 derivative
Oh and pretty soon the blue vs yellow brigade will come along...
>> Edited by PHØENIX on Friday 15th April 22:40
TVR added more than a few extra CC.
When I was buying I was told that loads of componentry was re-engineered and upgraded. Brakes for instance.
Personally I think it is very much down to the individual car. Some are drag raced, some are screwed from cold, some sit on the red line, some skimp on servicing etc etc whilst others are treated with total mechanical sympathy, never abused and receive no expense spared servicing. It's a minefield out there.
Just find a good car, more important than the engine capacity.
When I was buying I was told that loads of componentry was re-engineered and upgraded. Brakes for instance.
Personally I think it is very much down to the individual car. Some are drag raced, some are screwed from cold, some sit on the red line, some skimp on servicing etc etc whilst others are treated with total mechanical sympathy, never abused and receive no expense spared servicing. It's a minefield out there.
Just find a good car, more important than the engine capacity.
bruciebabie said:
When I was buying I was told that loads of componentry was re-engineered and upgraded.
I've seen both stripped and I'm sure a few of the indies on here who also have will tell you the same...
the so-called 're-engineering' if you want to call it that, happened all through the life of both engines... these changes in both engines were basically revisions in component materials and suppliers etc... the way the engines work, never changed... they played about with compression on both engines, alternator pulley sizes and belt sizes and other more ancilliary related changes.... but that was about the scope of what some would consider 're-engineering'.
Basically the difference is minimal, apart from a few ancilliary bits and bobs.... who ever told you the 4.5 is a re-engineered 4.2 - pulled your leg brucie.
duke thrust said:
If I wanted to say hit 360/370bhp, what would be the most cost effective tuning option, 4.2 or 4.5?
Cheers
For just power, a 4.5 is your best bet. Only because it seems easier to get to 370+ figures with a remap - whereas its generally accepted that the 4.2 doesnt get such a big benefit due to its better standard mapping.
[quote=PHØENIX]
I've seen both stripped and I'm sure a few of the indies on here who also have will tell you the same...
the so-called 're-engineering' if you want to call it that, happened all through the life of both engines... these changes in both engines were basically revisions in component materials and suppliers etc... the way the engines work, never changed... they played about with compression on both engines, alternator pulley sizes and belt sizes and other more ancilliary related changes.... but that was about the scope of what some would consider 're-engineering'.
Basically the difference is minimal, apart from a few ancilliary bits and bobs.... who ever told you the 4.5 is a re-engineered 4.2 - pulled your leg brucie.[/quote]
So a different engine, different clutch, different brakes and different wheels and tyres are minimal. These are just the ones I know off the top of my head.
bruciebabie said:
When I was buying I was told that loads of componentry was re-engineered and upgraded.
I've seen both stripped and I'm sure a few of the indies on here who also have will tell you the same...
the so-called 're-engineering' if you want to call it that, happened all through the life of both engines... these changes in both engines were basically revisions in component materials and suppliers etc... the way the engines work, never changed... they played about with compression on both engines, alternator pulley sizes and belt sizes and other more ancilliary related changes.... but that was about the scope of what some would consider 're-engineering'.
Basically the difference is minimal, apart from a few ancilliary bits and bobs.... who ever told you the 4.5 is a re-engineered 4.2 - pulled your leg brucie.
[/quote] So a different engine, different clutch, different brakes and different wheels and tyres are minimal. These are just the ones I know off the top of my head.
andy4200 said:
[quote=PHØENIX]Oh and pretty soon the blue vs yellow brigade will come along...
You rang..... blue 4.2 is definately the fastest model by a long shot...... parts are also cheaper than a 4.5 and did I mention that it needs to be blue for any performance gains to be noticed
[/quote] He's right you know
Isn't one of the significant differences the inlets and the position of the injectors relative to the butterflies? The 4.2 setup giving the 'hair trigger throttle' that is described on another thread and makes it so different to the 4.5 to drive .
And as Joo has said the fuel map is much better on the 4.2 so ECU mapping won't make such a significant difference. You can buy a mechanically sound 4.2 and drive it. To get the same 'drivability' on a 4.5 needs a remap or an Emerald from Joo. You can buy a 4.5 and mod it/remap it to release significant horse power. You can't with a 4.2.
So if you just want a drivable Cerbera and are not interested in the bragging rights of a 4.5 or potential power increase of a 4.5 then go for a 4.2.
If its the upgrade/remap route that interests you then it really has to be a 4.5.
But as has already been said. Go out a drive some examples of each. No two cars of the same model are the same, let alone the differences betwixt the 4.2 and 4.5.
But as has also already been said you ought to be sure about the initial and ongoing costs before you test drive. That first test drive can be the one that pushes you over the edge into ownership. Says he who went into it with eyes wide closed but hasn't regretted it at all, even when the clutch slave failed last night and stranded me. But the car was being well behaved 'cos it happened only a couple of miles from the dealer
And as Joo has said the fuel map is much better on the 4.2 so ECU mapping won't make such a significant difference. You can buy a mechanically sound 4.2 and drive it. To get the same 'drivability' on a 4.5 needs a remap or an Emerald from Joo. You can buy a 4.5 and mod it/remap it to release significant horse power. You can't with a 4.2.
So if you just want a drivable Cerbera and are not interested in the bragging rights of a 4.5 or potential power increase of a 4.5 then go for a 4.2.
If its the upgrade/remap route that interests you then it really has to be a 4.5.
But as has already been said. Go out a drive some examples of each. No two cars of the same model are the same, let alone the differences betwixt the 4.2 and 4.5.
But as has also already been said you ought to be sure about the initial and ongoing costs before you test drive. That first test drive can be the one that pushes you over the edge into ownership. Says he who went into it with eyes wide closed but hasn't regretted it at all, even when the clutch slave failed last night and stranded me. But the car was being well behaved 'cos it happened only a couple of miles from the dealer
Grrrrrrrr about that slave failure Mike. Good job you hadn't got a nice family run out with the North Yorkshire Posse isn't it? 
At least your dealer is relatively handy... and you should be back on the road in no time
( remember it's a mechanical failure so is covered under a warranty)
At least your dealer is relatively handy... and you should be back on the road in no time
( remember it's a mechanical failure so is covered under a warranty)
Yes could have been much worse, Joo. Family in the car, nasty bend or junction in the dales somewhere, and the forecast is for rain. That would have been fun!
And HHC reckon its all covered on the warranty.
As I recall I was coming into Harrogate when the overheating incident took place.
A very well behaved Cerebera even when she breaksdown
>> Edited by mikesr on Saturday 16th April 11:28
And HHC reckon its all covered on the warranty.
As I recall I was coming into Harrogate when the overheating incident took place.
A very well behaved Cerebera even when she breaksdown
>> Edited by mikesr on Saturday 16th April 11:28
Interesting one this
My old 4.2 and current 4.5 (pre-emerald), were very different to drive, initial acceleration felt very similar but after that the 4.5 felt much stronger. I drove the 4.5 all the way back from Southampton (after buying the car) to Barnsley and was amazed at how easy it was to drive at speed on the M1 compared to my old 4.2, my 4.5 was also very smooth between 1500-3000rpm when stuck in traffic, the 4.2 wasn't bad at these revs, but not as good the 4.5 and I put this down to the fact that it had a Red Rose Chip fitted (doesn't improve power but does improve driveability on some cars).
Not sure what the power and torque was for my 4.2, but my 4.5 made 339.9bhp and 338lbs torque at the Surrey RR day, therefore I would say that it was slightly up on power/torque than my 4.2. I have since had an Emerald Upgrade in two stages, first one was just a simple plug and play and increased the figures to 375bhp and 365lbs torque, the difference over standard was very noticeable especially the torque which was available almost instantly, since then I have had the Emerald mapped to my car and the power is now at 390bhp and the car just flies, if anything it's not as smooth between 1500-3000rpm anymore although it's nowhere near as bad as a std 4.5. The car is now about 8/10ths of a second quicker over the 1/4 mile than standard and about 9mph faster, this might not seem alot but trust me it's a fair few car lengths!
I would say for outright power go for the 4.5, as std it just has the edge on power from a 4.2 and has on average a bit more torque, once it has the Emerald/Joospeed treatment it will leave the 4.2 for dead. As Joolz has stated in a few previous threads, at the moment remapping a 4.2 is not that cost effective, the average 4.2 with 340-350bhp will only see around a 10bhp increase if any at all. However, if it's handling and suspension set up that you want over outright power, then the 4.2 is the more cost effective route...but only because the 4.5 carries a premium of 2-3k over a similarly aged 4.2.
Hope this has been of some help......
My old 4.2 and current 4.5 (pre-emerald), were very different to drive, initial acceleration felt very similar but after that the 4.5 felt much stronger. I drove the 4.5 all the way back from Southampton (after buying the car) to Barnsley and was amazed at how easy it was to drive at speed on the M1 compared to my old 4.2, my 4.5 was also very smooth between 1500-3000rpm when stuck in traffic, the 4.2 wasn't bad at these revs, but not as good the 4.5 and I put this down to the fact that it had a Red Rose Chip fitted (doesn't improve power but does improve driveability on some cars).
Not sure what the power and torque was for my 4.2, but my 4.5 made 339.9bhp and 338lbs torque at the Surrey RR day, therefore I would say that it was slightly up on power/torque than my 4.2. I have since had an Emerald Upgrade in two stages, first one was just a simple plug and play and increased the figures to 375bhp and 365lbs torque, the difference over standard was very noticeable especially the torque which was available almost instantly, since then I have had the Emerald mapped to my car and the power is now at 390bhp and the car just flies, if anything it's not as smooth between 1500-3000rpm anymore although it's nowhere near as bad as a std 4.5. The car is now about 8/10ths of a second quicker over the 1/4 mile than standard and about 9mph faster, this might not seem alot but trust me it's a fair few car lengths!
I would say for outright power go for the 4.5, as std it just has the edge on power from a 4.2 and has on average a bit more torque, once it has the Emerald/Joospeed treatment it will leave the 4.2 for dead. As Joolz has stated in a few previous threads, at the moment remapping a 4.2 is not that cost effective, the average 4.2 with 340-350bhp will only see around a 10bhp increase if any at all. However, if it's handling and suspension set up that you want over outright power, then the 4.2 is the more cost effective route...but only because the 4.5 carries a premium of 2-3k over a similarly aged 4.2.
Hope this has been of some help......
2 sheds said:
Although only a small difference in capacity the engines perform differently, "out of the box" they make about the same bhp, the 4.5 will however make a bit more torque, but if you are into modifications the 4.5 has loads of extra power waiting to be unleashed
Can we assume you have the new car back after its work then Tim
. Before and after figures would be nice. Harry
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