Cerb LS1 progress
Discussion
Well after about three days work and two buckets full of bolts, finally got the body off down at Tower View and the rust worm was worse than we could originally see. Nothing that can't be cured but the heat protection material has seemed to have done a great job of retaining water next to the chassis... and then rudting through more of the down tubes. The body off bit won't be necessary on the LS1 transplant but it has to be done as you can see from the state of the chassis. It will make fettling a lot easier.
The next stage is to sort the chassis out and send it for blasting, etching and coating prior to dropping the LS1 engine in. While it is away, I can get on with the metal bashing needed. Don't worry about the Cerbie book, I've been working on this before and after the day on the car...
www.shpub.co.uk/gallery/CerbLS1/index.html to access the gallery
>> Edited by shpub on Thursday 7th July 08:29
The next stage is to sort the chassis out and send it for blasting, etching and coating prior to dropping the LS1 engine in. While it is away, I can get on with the metal bashing needed. Don't worry about the Cerbie book, I've been working on this before and after the day on the car...
www.shpub.co.uk/gallery/CerbLS1/index.html to access the gallery
>> Edited by shpub on Thursday 7th July 08:29
Looks like there are a few of us who fancy having a go at this (in the winter months?)
Can you tell us roughly what's involved? What has to come out/off? In the absence of a Haynes manual, any chance of a brief step-by-step idiots guide?
You could even put 're-assemble in reverse order' I LOVE that expression. It makes it all look so easy.
Can you tell us roughly what's involved? What has to come out/off? In the absence of a Haynes manual, any chance of a brief step-by-step idiots guide?
You could even put 're-assemble in reverse order' I LOVE that expression. It makes it all look so easy. It is not easy as the whole of the car needs to be dismantled and I did it the easy way by taking the engine out first! It had been removed to see what was going on. There are at least 46 bolts that have to be undone, fuel tank, seats, belts, interior panels, dash, battery, header tanks, radiators, air con, PAS, handbrakes, steering column all to be taken apart. It took me 2 days to get everything ready and a final third day to lift it with the help of the guys at Tower View without whom it would have been very difficult indeed.
It is being documented for the chassis chapter in the forthcoming Cerbera book. Having taken the car apart has revealed all sorts of interesting other bits which will go into the book.
It is being documented for the chassis chapter in the forthcoming Cerbera book. Having taken the car apart has revealed all sorts of interesting other bits which will go into the book.
Steve,
When you sort the chassis, see if you can get it hot zinc sprayed. It should stop it rusting forever!
I had my old M done at a place that does lampposts, only cost a £100 (although that was 10 years ago), about 5 miles from Junciton 9 on the M11 so not that bad to trailer it from tower view.
Much better than powder coating
D
PS If you think that is bad you should have see the chassis on my 'm' although it was 21 yeas old at the time.
I know the car has done a few miles, do you know if it lived outside or had a garage?
When you sort the chassis, see if you can get it hot zinc sprayed. It should stop it rusting forever!
I had my old M done at a place that does lampposts, only cost a £100 (although that was 10 years ago), about 5 miles from Junciton 9 on the M11 so not that bad to trailer it from tower view.
Much better than powder coating
D
PS If you think that is bad you should have see the chassis on my 'm' although it was 21 yeas old at the time.
I know the car has done a few miles, do you know if it lived outside or had a garage?
The plan is to get it zinc coated and etched (or summat like that) before powder coating. Tower View have done several like this and the coating is really tough.
The car has been outside for some time and I have found some holes in the bodywork that have not helped as they have let in a lot of water at some point. Basically the car has been neglected and the locations where it has gone are very difficult to get to.
I fortunately have the time to do the work and Tower View helping me with occassional man power and facilities means that the cost for me will be low. The real advantage for everyone is the knowledge. And in this case the jigs that I'll make to do the chassis repair which will help speed the repair for the next time.
I think when it is done and the LS1 engine is dropped in, it will be one hell of a car! Anyway it is that thought that is keeping me going on this at the moment.
The car has been outside for some time and I have found some holes in the bodywork that have not helped as they have let in a lot of water at some point. Basically the car has been neglected and the locations where it has gone are very difficult to get to.
I fortunately have the time to do the work and Tower View helping me with occassional man power and facilities means that the cost for me will be low. The real advantage for everyone is the knowledge. And in this case the jigs that I'll make to do the chassis repair which will help speed the repair for the next time.
I think when it is done and the LS1 engine is dropped in, it will be one hell of a car! Anyway it is that thought that is keeping me going on this at the moment.
Excellent stuff. I suspect over the next few years there will be a lot of folks who need to follow this route (body off stuff, maybe not the ls1 thing although I suspect there are lots with a keen interest), you book will be come a best seller, especially as a lot of it will be applicable to any TVR.
Please keep us posted with lots of pics of the chassis. I remember thinking mine looked okish when I took the body off then I had it blasted prior to welding...Then it was very scary, it was however really straightforward to put right.
D
Please keep us posted with lots of pics of the chassis. I remember thinking mine looked okish when I took the body off then I had it blasted prior to welding...Then it was very scary, it was however really straightforward to put right.
D
as I have posted mine has a visible hole on the drivers side top tube just under the manifold.
I have discussed options with Offords and we concluded the best option is engine out and blitz the enging bay chassis area.
I am now wondering if I should save the 1K plus bill to do so and remove the manifolds myself strip as much out as pos to fix the offending areas and then wait till I need and engine / gearbox rebuild (Im at 56k)and do a full body off resto - I again would seriously consider a galvanising solution over powder coating!
what do you reckon?? good luck all .. DAS
I have discussed options with Offords and we concluded the best option is engine out and blitz the enging bay chassis area.
I am now wondering if I should save the 1K plus bill to do so and remove the manifolds myself strip as much out as pos to fix the offending areas and then wait till I need and engine / gearbox rebuild (Im at 56k)and do a full body off resto - I again would seriously consider a galvanising solution over powder coating!
what do you reckon?? good luck all .. DAS
david smith said:
I again would seriously consider a galvanising solution over powder coating!
what do you reckon??
Hot dip galvanising is great for protection but may distort the chassis. Pwoder coating is cheap and cheerful and looks very pretty but not too good in the long term, especially if you appy it to a zinc sprayed chassis. Epoxy mastics as widely discussed on PH give the best protection.
19560 said:
I again would seriously consider a galvanising solution over powder coating!
what do you reckon??
Hot dip galvanising is great for protection but may distort the chassis. Pwoder coating is cheap and cheerful and looks very pretty but not too good in the long term, especially if you appy it to a zinc sprayed chassis. Epoxy mastics as widely discussed on PH give the best protection.
David
If you are going to keep the car for a while then I would consider getting the whole lot done, although I would expect a big bill at the end of it if you were paying someone to do the work.
Hot dipping is good but yes you have to watch for warping, they can get round this by drilling holes in the tubes which sort of defeats the object.
I would have said that a hot zinc spray would give better protection than a coating as the zinc spray will react with the steel rather than coating it.
The other thing to realise is that taking the bbody off is a job you will be able to do yourself if you have the space, the time, an angle grinder (
) and some mates. Whilst it is in no way as complex as a cerb it only took a couple of weekends to get my M ready to take off the body and then only 4 of us to lift it off. It will also give you a chance to make sure the rest of the car will be in tip top condition.
D
yes .. im not underestimating the body off experience but am again not completely scared .. took the body off my old lotus elan plus 2 and replaced it with a lotus galvanised unit .. but was a much simpler car than the cerb ...
I dont have any intention of getting rid of the cerb .. maybe ever .. so Im thinking a DIY fix now followed by body off when engine needs doing may be the best cause of action ... then maybe a hot zink spray is the best solution wouldnt want to warp it and make life even harder!
ls1??? hummm looking with real interest! saw the chim at Ace cafe with LS6 in it ... very nice!!
with all this interest maybe we could get a cartel of labour and experience and hit them all 1 after another
I have a narrow garage but triple length with a pit ??
DAS
>> Edited by david smith on Friday 8th July 13:41
I dont have any intention of getting rid of the cerb .. maybe ever .. so Im thinking a DIY fix now followed by body off when engine needs doing may be the best cause of action ... then maybe a hot zink spray is the best solution wouldnt want to warp it and make life even harder!
ls1??? hummm looking with real interest! saw the chim at Ace cafe with LS6 in it ... very nice!!
with all this interest maybe we could get a cartel of labour and experience and hit them all 1 after another
I have a narrow garage but triple length with a pit ??
DAS
>> Edited by david smith on Friday 8th July 13:41
You will need a lift or 8 people to lift the Cerbie body off. It is very heavy. A ninth is very handy to find all the bits that stop the body coming off... It probably weighs more than a complete Lotus Elan!
To be honest if the top rail is gone, then I would be suspicious of the rest. The only way to successfully weld that rail is with the engine out and either the body off or cut holes in the footwell to get access around the blind side and then glass the body bit back.
To be honest if the top rail is gone, then I would be suspicious of the rest. The only way to successfully weld that rail is with the engine out and either the body off or cut holes in the footwell to get access around the blind side and then glass the body bit back.
shpub said:
You will need a lift or 8 people to lift the Cerbie body off. It is very heavy. A ninth is very handy to find all the bits that stop the body coming off... It probably weighs more than a complete Lotus Elan!
To be honest if the top rail is gone, then I would be suspicious of the rest. The only way to successfully weld that rail is with the engine out and either the body off or cut holes in the footwell to get access around the blind side and then glass the body bit back.
Gee that hard top must weight alot,had the chim body weighed at about 200 kilo's (ok without doors and bonnet)
Four guys,a wheel arch each should do it.
Probably need some muscles over there,like your rugby team....
O yes (in my Churchill Insurance voice) and to the body and it basically comes out with the body. There is a lot to disconnect and free up which is why it took so long to get ready. It is not like the few bolts and away. The body is wrapped around the chassis so an angle grinder is of no use and even so some of the body has to be cut to free it.
The chassis repairs have to be accurate as it mates not only to the body but to the role cage. Cutting the chassis first to clear it then means all the alignment is gone. On previous cars this alignment is only between the chassis and body but now there is a roll cage to contend with which cannot be moved. That is why I'm going to jig the chassis before repairing it so that I can make sure the alignment is exactly right.
It's not rocket science (depends on experience though) but it is very easy to charge in and get things drastically wrong.
The chassis repairs have to be accurate as it mates not only to the body but to the role cage. Cutting the chassis first to clear it then means all the alignment is gone. On previous cars this alignment is only between the chassis and body but now there is a roll cage to contend with which cannot be moved. That is why I'm going to jig the chassis before repairing it so that I can make sure the alignment is exactly right.
It's not rocket science (depends on experience though) but it is very easy to charge in and get things drastically wrong.
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