Car won't start/immobiliser issues.
Discussion
Good morning,
After having successfully sorted and refurbished various parts of my Cerbera she has now decided to thank me by not starting.
Using the plug in immobiliser in the little cubby hole I press the black button and the two red lights come on, but no fuel pump prime. She turns over strongly but obviously no start.
I have heard this can be related to immobiliser issues, including stuck relays in the immobiliser. Where are these relays located? Is there a way to ditch the immobiliser altogether? I am in Western Australia so I can't just drop by the local TVR place to get it sorted by someone who has done it before.
I am as we speak checking if the fuel pump gets voltage, although the pump is barely 300km old so it should be sweet.
Obviously any immobiliser related answers can be sent via PM.
Cheers everybody.
After having successfully sorted and refurbished various parts of my Cerbera she has now decided to thank me by not starting.
Using the plug in immobiliser in the little cubby hole I press the black button and the two red lights come on, but no fuel pump prime. She turns over strongly but obviously no start.
I have heard this can be related to immobiliser issues, including stuck relays in the immobiliser. Where are these relays located? Is there a way to ditch the immobiliser altogether? I am in Western Australia so I can't just drop by the local TVR place to get it sorted by someone who has done it before.
I am as we speak checking if the fuel pump gets voltage, although the pump is barely 300km old so it should be sweet.
Obviously any immobiliser related answers can be sent via PM.
Cheers everybody.
Ok i've found the spot.
In this image above you can see a fuse just below the taped up box on the left. That one frys as soon as power is on. What is it?
I believe I have also found the box with the two relays controlling the ignition and fuel pump. I will head back to the shed now, bridge them, and see if that works.
In this image above you can see a fuse just below the taped up box on the left. That one frys as soon as power is on. What is it?
I believe I have also found the box with the two relays controlling the ignition and fuel pump. I will head back to the shed now, bridge them, and see if that works.
Hello,
Just to be sure I understand, can you try this...
1. Press the black starter button once, to turn the ignition on.
The red oil and battery lights should illuminate.
2. Look in the cubby hole at the immobiliser slot.
You will see a red LED flash once every second when the immobiliser is enabled.
3. Press your immobiliser tag into the slot and wait for a second or two.
The flashing LED on the immobiliser slot will stop flashing
You will here a continuous beep
The MIL light will illuminate
The fuel pump will prime (but not in your case).
4. Now press and hold the black ignition button
The starter motor will engage and would usually start car (but not in your case).
If the above is true, and the flashing LED on the immobiliser slot stops flashing when you insert your key tag, the immobiliser is disarmed.
If the starter motor is engaging, this also means that the immobiliser must be disarmed because if the immobiliser were armed or the round silver deadlock key were switched off, it would not be possible to engage the starter motor.
As you say you cannot hear the fuel pump prime...
1. Can you check the inertia switch
This can be found in the boot, top left, above the fuel tank and behind a carpet panel. It is a black block with a square rubber button on the top. If this switch has tripped it will disable the fuel pump, press it to reset it.
I would then check/replace...
1. Fuse 19 (15A) for the fuel pump
2. Relay No 4 (Brown) for the fuel pump
Both can be located in the boot, behind a carpet panel, top right.
If you are convinced that the fuel pump relay and fuse are fine...
1. Check for a live feed to the starter motor
If there is a live feed at the fuel pump but it fails to operate, clamp-off the fuel lines, remove the pump and test/repair/replace it.
There are other things to check...but I would start with the above first.
If you have a laptop with the ECU software, you can check to see if the ECU is switching the pump on or if there are any other faults that might prevent starting.
I recently restored a Cerbera Mk1 4.2 AJP V8 and replaced the original Meta alarm system. The Meta Alarms are quite robust and a sealed unit. There were no serviceable components accessible other than two 15A blade fuses located on the bottom on the unit. I would not recommend trying to disable/remove the alarm system.
I think it unlikely that the alarm/immobiliser is at fault but you can access the device by removing the cubby hole between the two rear seats. This is done by removing a single bolt located in the back of the cubby hole. In the centre, right at the top, just pull down the carpet a centimetre to two and you'll see it.
Hopefully the above is helpful... come back and let us know how you get on...
Best regards
A.H
Just to be sure I understand, can you try this...
1. Press the black starter button once, to turn the ignition on.
The red oil and battery lights should illuminate.
2. Look in the cubby hole at the immobiliser slot.
You will see a red LED flash once every second when the immobiliser is enabled.
3. Press your immobiliser tag into the slot and wait for a second or two.
The flashing LED on the immobiliser slot will stop flashing
You will here a continuous beep
The MIL light will illuminate
The fuel pump will prime (but not in your case).
4. Now press and hold the black ignition button
The starter motor will engage and would usually start car (but not in your case).
If the above is true, and the flashing LED on the immobiliser slot stops flashing when you insert your key tag, the immobiliser is disarmed.
If the starter motor is engaging, this also means that the immobiliser must be disarmed because if the immobiliser were armed or the round silver deadlock key were switched off, it would not be possible to engage the starter motor.
As you say you cannot hear the fuel pump prime...
1. Can you check the inertia switch
This can be found in the boot, top left, above the fuel tank and behind a carpet panel. It is a black block with a square rubber button on the top. If this switch has tripped it will disable the fuel pump, press it to reset it.
I would then check/replace...
1. Fuse 19 (15A) for the fuel pump
2. Relay No 4 (Brown) for the fuel pump
Both can be located in the boot, behind a carpet panel, top right.
If you are convinced that the fuel pump relay and fuse are fine...
1. Check for a live feed to the starter motor
If there is a live feed at the fuel pump but it fails to operate, clamp-off the fuel lines, remove the pump and test/repair/replace it.
There are other things to check...but I would start with the above first.
If you have a laptop with the ECU software, you can check to see if the ECU is switching the pump on or if there are any other faults that might prevent starting.
I recently restored a Cerbera Mk1 4.2 AJP V8 and replaced the original Meta alarm system. The Meta Alarms are quite robust and a sealed unit. There were no serviceable components accessible other than two 15A blade fuses located on the bottom on the unit. I would not recommend trying to disable/remove the alarm system.
I think it unlikely that the alarm/immobiliser is at fault but you can access the device by removing the cubby hole between the two rear seats. This is done by removing a single bolt located in the back of the cubby hole. In the centre, right at the top, just pull down the carpet a centimetre to two and you'll see it.
Hopefully the above is helpful... come back and let us know how you get on...
Best regards
A.H
Cheers for the info Tony.
I have fed 12v direct to the fuel pump and it runs. I have checked continuity of the wire from the fuse box to the pump (I replaced it with bigger wire a while back) and I have checked the switching of the fuel pump relay. I have checked every fuse in the fuse box.
Just then I reset the tip over switch, bridged the relays from the alarm black box (fuel and ignition I believe) and still no go.
In your answer steps 1-4 are pretty much exactly what happens, except I don't get a continuous beep, but I never have, even when it was running.
"If you are convinced that the fuel pump relay and fuse are fine...
1. Check for a live feed to the starter motor" <Is this relevant if the fuel pump runs with 12v and the motor turns over, or am I missing something here?
I will locate and check the blade fuses on the alarm unit (how many boxes does it have??!) and connect my phone with RSAJP app to see if that has any clues.
I have fed 12v direct to the fuel pump and it runs. I have checked continuity of the wire from the fuse box to the pump (I replaced it with bigger wire a while back) and I have checked the switching of the fuel pump relay. I have checked every fuse in the fuse box.
Just then I reset the tip over switch, bridged the relays from the alarm black box (fuel and ignition I believe) and still no go.
In your answer steps 1-4 are pretty much exactly what happens, except I don't get a continuous beep, but I never have, even when it was running.
"If you are convinced that the fuel pump relay and fuse are fine...
1. Check for a live feed to the starter motor" <Is this relevant if the fuel pump runs with 12v and the motor turns over, or am I missing something here?
I will locate and check the blade fuses on the alarm unit (how many boxes does it have??!) and connect my phone with RSAJP app to see if that has any clues.
Hello,
Don't worry about the continuous beep. The volume is control by a small variable resistor located under the main instrument binnacle. People often turn this down so it can't be heard. This is also the control for the beep you hear when indicating.
In the picture you posted, you have a different type/version of alarm that I have seen in the Two Mark 1 Cerbera's I have owned/restored. The Alarm/Immobiliser I usually see is the Meta M36 Immobiliser (thin black box) and the M99 Alarm (larger black box). There are two blade fuses on the bottom of the M99 alarm. It looks like your system has one/two fused inline to the cabling...
If you have manually supplied 12v to the pump and you can confirm that it operates and you are certain that there is no short circuit in the new cable you have supplied to the pump this is very puzzling.
Did you also say that where your Alarm and Immobiliser boxes are located (between the two rear seats), you can see a fuse that continually blows when replaced? If so there is obviously a serious electrical issue to resolve. If you disconnect the cable to the pump and replace the fuse, does it still blow? I'm trying to puzzle out of there is a short in the new cable that was fitted to the pump that would explain the fuse blowing?
I would stop for a moment and contact Abacus Alarms. Send them a picture of the Alarm you have and describe the issues you're having. This is the company that supplied the replacement/upgraded alarms that I have fitted to my Cerberas. The team have an amazing knowledge of these alarms and immobilisers...
https://abacusalarms.co.uk
https://abacusalarms.co.uk/alarmshop/car-alarms/tv...
Tel: 0208 677 1999
Mobile: 07930 332 362
Abacus Car Alarms,
206 Leigham Court Road,
London,
SW16 2RB
Sorry I can't be more help here. Abacus are the experts and they used to have (might still have) the alarm/immobiliser installation manuals online on their website.
Best regards
A.H
Don't worry about the continuous beep. The volume is control by a small variable resistor located under the main instrument binnacle. People often turn this down so it can't be heard. This is also the control for the beep you hear when indicating.
In the picture you posted, you have a different type/version of alarm that I have seen in the Two Mark 1 Cerbera's I have owned/restored. The Alarm/Immobiliser I usually see is the Meta M36 Immobiliser (thin black box) and the M99 Alarm (larger black box). There are two blade fuses on the bottom of the M99 alarm. It looks like your system has one/two fused inline to the cabling...
If you have manually supplied 12v to the pump and you can confirm that it operates and you are certain that there is no short circuit in the new cable you have supplied to the pump this is very puzzling.
Did you also say that where your Alarm and Immobiliser boxes are located (between the two rear seats), you can see a fuse that continually blows when replaced? If so there is obviously a serious electrical issue to resolve. If you disconnect the cable to the pump and replace the fuse, does it still blow? I'm trying to puzzle out of there is a short in the new cable that was fitted to the pump that would explain the fuse blowing?
I would stop for a moment and contact Abacus Alarms. Send them a picture of the Alarm you have and describe the issues you're having. This is the company that supplied the replacement/upgraded alarms that I have fitted to my Cerberas. The team have an amazing knowledge of these alarms and immobilisers...
https://abacusalarms.co.uk
https://abacusalarms.co.uk/alarmshop/car-alarms/tv...
Tel: 0208 677 1999
Mobile: 07930 332 362
Abacus Car Alarms,
206 Leigham Court Road,
London,
SW16 2RB
Sorry I can't be more help here. Abacus are the experts and they used to have (might still have) the alarm/immobiliser installation manuals online on their website.
Best regards
A.H
The other person is HF solutions, also very knowledgeable
https://www.hf-solutions.co.uk/immobiliser/4586328...
https://www.hf-solutions.co.uk/immobiliser/4586328...
Well.... she's running.
I was thinking of just running a jumper from the ignition to the fuel pump relay, and in the process I was putting 12v to each of the terminals on the fuel pump plug, with no luck.
After doing that I thought I'd better check the fuses again, and whadaya know, the fuel pump fuse was blown. Replaced the fuse and she fired up first go!
I had checked every fuse at the start of my diagnoses and they were good.
So...
I'm going blind and I missed the blown fuse, or..
I blew the fuse whilst trouble shooting and in removing the various alarm boxes I've jolted loose a relay on one of the circuit boards.
I'm going with option 2.
Well at least I learnt some more about the car. Now I have to send a humiliating email to a TVR alarm expert haha. Thanks everyone for your help.
I was thinking of just running a jumper from the ignition to the fuel pump relay, and in the process I was putting 12v to each of the terminals on the fuel pump plug, with no luck.
After doing that I thought I'd better check the fuses again, and whadaya know, the fuel pump fuse was blown. Replaced the fuse and she fired up first go!
I had checked every fuse at the start of my diagnoses and they were good.
So...
I'm going blind and I missed the blown fuse, or..
I blew the fuse whilst trouble shooting and in removing the various alarm boxes I've jolted loose a relay on one of the circuit boards.
I'm going with option 2.
Well at least I learnt some more about the car. Now I have to send a humiliating email to a TVR alarm expert haha. Thanks everyone for your help.
Afyter I did similar with fuses, I replaced the lot with those fuses that light up when they blow
Like these (first google hit) they'll be other suppliers
https://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/standard-blade-led-...
Like these (first google hit) they'll be other suppliers
https://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/standard-blade-led-...
FarmyardPants said:
LLantrisant said:
the immo can be found
Somewhere best not made public
LLantrisant Would you mind removing the above post?Somewhere best not made public
I’m not paranoid but I’m convinced people think I am.
http://www.abacuscaralarms.co.uk/tvr-alarms.html
It was very helpful when I was having issues.
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