Is the 4.5 worth the extra over the 4.2?
Discussion
I have been doing lots of homework and i will be in a position to look to buy in the next few weeks, oh... and after previous deliberations i have decided it has to be a Cerbera.
It appears that there are some general 'must look for' items such as a recent clutch, good chassis, post 1998 car etc, but looking at the numbers i can pick up a good post 98 4.2 for £17k upward. A good 4.5 £19k upward.
I am not bothered one bit about bragging rights - i have read most of the threads here that you would have to be pretty sharp to be able to tell just by driving one that one is a 4.5 or 4.2 - i.e. the performance is very similar.
So...is the 4.5 worth the extra because of the other 'extras' such as brakes, hydratrack etc? Or am i best with my budget sticking to 4.2? Budget - Max £18k.
It appears that there are some general 'must look for' items such as a recent clutch, good chassis, post 1998 car etc, but looking at the numbers i can pick up a good post 98 4.2 for £17k upward. A good 4.5 £19k upward.
I am not bothered one bit about bragging rights - i have read most of the threads here that you would have to be pretty sharp to be able to tell just by driving one that one is a 4.5 or 4.2 - i.e. the performance is very similar.
So...is the 4.5 worth the extra because of the other 'extras' such as brakes, hydratrack etc? Or am i best with my budget sticking to 4.2? Budget - Max £18k.
The 4.5 is only worth it if you wish to upgrade it to red rose spec in future or remap it. Basically, if you want 400bhp+ the 4.5 is the realisitic option.
The 4.2 in standard form however is just as good in pretty much every way, better with the friction diff (hydratrack is a bit of a lottery IMHO - not consistant at all)
Ignore the engine size (As long as its an 8) and just buy the one that is the right colour, that drives well and is in top condition. Try a few, see which you prefer.
The 4.2 in standard form however is just as good in pretty much every way, better with the friction diff (hydratrack is a bit of a lottery IMHO - not consistant at all)
Ignore the engine size (As long as its an 8) and just buy the one that is the right colour, that drives well and is in top condition. Try a few, see which you prefer.
I suppose the difference is personal preference and budget. A bit like a 205 1.6 gti and 205 1.9 gti, some said the 1.6 was the better driver's car, some argued not.
If you want to see potentially 400bhp then go for the 4.5, if 360 is fine, then go for the 4.2. My thoughts were that I will never probably buy another car like this, so wanted to know I had gone for the top of the range so I would never have to say, 'I'd wish I had got the 4.5'
People will also say that condition is key and better to have a sorted 4.2 for the same money as a not so good 4.5 which makes sense. The fact that the 4.5 makes roughly the same bhp without mods as the 4.2 makes me feel that the engine isn't so stressed so may last longer (of maybe thats just wishful thinking
)
When you come to sell it you will get a higher price for the 4.5 than the 4.2 so pays your money and make your choice
Either way they are both great.
If you want to see potentially 400bhp then go for the 4.5, if 360 is fine, then go for the 4.2. My thoughts were that I will never probably buy another car like this, so wanted to know I had gone for the top of the range so I would never have to say, 'I'd wish I had got the 4.5'
People will also say that condition is key and better to have a sorted 4.2 for the same money as a not so good 4.5 which makes sense. The fact that the 4.5 makes roughly the same bhp without mods as the 4.2 makes me feel that the engine isn't so stressed so may last longer (of maybe thats just wishful thinking
) When you come to sell it you will get a higher price for the 4.5 than the 4.2 so pays your money and make your choice
Either way they are both great.
Theres a silver cerbera owning chap here, whose cerb cost him in the reigon of £1k a month, every month, for about 8 months.
To avoid dissapointment, see if someone like www.austec.co.uk can give the car a full inspection. Despite being amongst of the best cerbie-checker-uppers in the country, they are also the cheapest.
IIRC, £100 buys you two hours of their time, in which they go over the car with a fine tooth comb. So when you're ready to buy, if privately, see if you can negotiate a deal with them and the buyer. Might save you 40 times the cost of the checkup
To avoid dissapointment, see if someone like www.austec.co.uk can give the car a full inspection. Despite being amongst of the best cerbie-checker-uppers in the country, they are also the cheapest.
IIRC, £100 buys you two hours of their time, in which they go over the car with a fine tooth comb. So when you're ready to buy, if privately, see if you can negotiate a deal with them and the buyer. Might save you 40 times the cost of the checkup
robertjp said:
- i.e. the performance is very similar.
So...is the 4.5 worth the extra because of the other 'extras' such as brakes, hydratrack etc?
Hi
Does depend on your definition of driving:
1) if on track for a goodly proportion of the time, then probably worth finding a 4.5 (more upgradable, better brakes out of the box, the later cars have front suspension/chassis revisions, better clutch housing)
2) if around town 4.2 (brakes are cheaper to replace, mapping out of the box means that they're generally better behaved in traffic, inlet geometry allows better cooling when sat in traffic (no roasted purple pipes)
Not sure about your 1998 cut-off either: e.g. Some later cars have rusty chassis, some dont. Cerberas seem to vary irrespective of the supposed year of manufacture. You have to find the right one, or keep fixing the one you've got until it becomes the right one ;-)
Thanks for all the replies so far guys...
The 4.5 option is attractive because it offers more power potential, however i have to ask myself whether i will really ever be able to justify spending large amounts of money on something thats already pretty much the fastest thing on the road.
I mean, where do you stop?! As for thinking...what if i had gone for the 4.5, well if there isnt a performance difference in a standard car, then would i really miss anything??
Is it worth £2k to £3k more?
I have already decided to go through a specialist, probably James Agger, to safeguard against any nasty surprises, just trying to get an idea in my owbn mind what i am after...
The 4.5 option is attractive because it offers more power potential, however i have to ask myself whether i will really ever be able to justify spending large amounts of money on something thats already pretty much the fastest thing on the road.
I mean, where do you stop?! As for thinking...what if i had gone for the 4.5, well if there isnt a performance difference in a standard car, then would i really miss anything??
Is it worth £2k to £3k more?
I have already decided to go through a specialist, probably James Agger, to safeguard against any nasty surprises, just trying to get an idea in my owbn mind what i am after...
.. he's very honest too so ask him what he thinks, have a bit of a discussion about what you want from a cerbera and he'll try to sort a suitable car for you. 
Sounds to me like it doesnt really matter to you. Just put condition at the top of the list and you will be fine.
Next is colour (in and out)
then suspension (try and get one with nitrons etc)
then 4.2 v 4.5
the rest eg exhaust and wheels are less important (I mean you need wheels but not 18inchers).
Next is colour (in and out)
then suspension (try and get one with nitrons etc)
then 4.2 v 4.5
the rest eg exhaust and wheels are less important (I mean you need wheels but not 18inchers).
The interior on Teds review car is absolutely gorgeous!!!
Reinforces the the opinion that 4.2 vs. 4.5 isnt really a performance decision.
I will just drive a few and see....thanks everyone.
Time goes so slow...but in a really daft kind of way...i dont want the day to come???!! how silly is that?
Reinforces the the opinion that 4.2 vs. 4.5 isnt really a performance decision.
I will just drive a few and see....thanks everyone.
Time goes so slow...but in a really daft kind of way...i dont want the day to come???!! how silly is that?
"is there a power difference?" - yes, very much so... not in outright power, but in delivery. - the 4.5 has a much larger torque spread, to the extent that particularily in fourth gear onwards, it will pull away from most 4.2's and such.
Someone mentioned the 4.5 being the track choice, I have to disagree - when you are using every rpm available, the 4.2's peak power is utilised - making it as quick as any 4.5 on track. I would say that for general usage (motorways for example) the 4.5's wider torque spread would be more advantagious.
The 4.2 is an absolute bargain atm, and unless you wish for more straight line grunt and upgrades - I would stick with the £4k ish saving and enjoy a 4.2 - £1k would make it handle superbly, and another 1k(ish) would make it stop as well as a 4.5 if not better. Then you have the more consistant diff too, which is IMHO better in absolute terms than hydratrack as you can lean on it more heavily.
If you wish to upgrade power - go for the 4.5, but otherwise, you'll be absolutely smitten with the 4.2. Its hardly lacking in grunt is it?
Someone mentioned the 4.5 being the track choice, I have to disagree - when you are using every rpm available, the 4.2's peak power is utilised - making it as quick as any 4.5 on track. I would say that for general usage (motorways for example) the 4.5's wider torque spread would be more advantagious.
The 4.2 is an absolute bargain atm, and unless you wish for more straight line grunt and upgrades - I would stick with the £4k ish saving and enjoy a 4.2 - £1k would make it handle superbly, and another 1k(ish) would make it stop as well as a 4.5 if not better. Then you have the more consistant diff too, which is IMHO better in absolute terms than hydratrack as you can lean on it more heavily.
If you wish to upgrade power - go for the 4.5, but otherwise, you'll be absolutely smitten with the 4.2. Its hardly lacking in grunt is it?
BCA said:
and another 1k(ish) would make it stop as well
I'm sorry but I have to ask why on earth it'd take a grand to make a 4.2 stop well?
The brakes are bloody brilliant on my 4.2 and do not need upgrading other than pads (Mintex 1155's please).
One of the very best traits of the Cerbera is it's braking.
Duncan
I'm upgrading my fronts to ap racing 330mm spec and its an early 4.2 - the cost, around £500. Luckily mine was fitted with the bigger callipers with three fixing bolts top and bottom, which can take up to 330 discs. Then its just a matter of getting some 4.5 2 piece discs from a breakers yard (£75 pair from bell hill), getting some 19.5mm aluminium spacers made, some longer bolts and the discs (by far the most expensive items, but they will last a long long time).
DuncanM said:
and another 1k(ish) would make it stop as well
I'm sorry but I have to ask why on earth it'd take a grand to make a 4.2 stop well?
The brakes are bloody brilliant on my 4.2 and do not need upgrading other than pads (Mintex 1155's please).
One of the very best traits of the Cerbera is it's braking.
Duncan
I would agree with that, mines an early 4.2 and the braking is excellent for fast road use, maybe for prolonged track session may be different matter?
I might try and find the excellent article on braking I found exposing the myth of bigger calipers/discs being worth the outlay and paste it here but basically it's this:
Ultimate braking distance is much more to do with tyres and mechanical grip than it is big brakes!
As long as your caliper/disc/pad setup can lock up a wheel then their good enough.
After that you're paying all that money to make the pedal easier to push (less effort to produce the same performance).
But hey they look nice.
Duncan
Ultimate braking distance is much more to do with tyres and mechanical grip than it is big brakes!
As long as your caliper/disc/pad setup can lock up a wheel then their good enough.
After that you're paying all that money to make the pedal easier to push (less effort to produce the same performance).
But hey they look nice
. Duncan
BCA said:
"Someone mentioned the 4.5 being the track choice, I have to disagree - when you are using every rpm available, the 4.2's peak power is utilised - making it as quick as any 4.5 on track.
Hi Benjamin,
I'm Someone.
Someone also said that the 4.5 is more upgradable, and this is the reason for it being better for track work.
An UNMODIFIED 4.2 will probably stay with an UNMODIFIED 4.5 on track, however, as the recent CREAM day at Elvington proved, there seem to be fewer and fewer 4.5 in that category. You can use peak 4.2 power all day, but you won't see which way a modded 4.5 went.
>> Edited by Tam Lin on Tuesday 4th October 12:28
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