Buying a TVR Cerbera..

[MarkGolf]

Hi, Im looking for guidance and advice..

I'm 22 and live in S. London, was going to go for an E36 or E46 M3 but seeing a TVR hang it round a roundabout in Chessington last night, I remembered my love for them!

I checked prices today and they are certainly affordable! My max budget is £16k.. Insurance is acceptable, infact, less than the E46!

What I want to know is, what are the running costs like, I will only be doing social driving in it in the evenings and weekends as I work local. I don't want the one with the speed six as I want to use the car, not have it being repaired and there is no way I'd be able to shell out for an instant repair! One of my best friends used to have a Tuscan S (UR 02 SLO) So I kinda know abut some of the highs and lows of a TVR but I'd hope a Cerbera is more relaible..

So, what one should I go for, what goes wrong, what should I look for and what are the costs?

Thanks!

[central]

Read this forum. The question is asked on a daily basis. (it seems)

[BLUETHUNDER]

UR 02 SLO that cars a bit of a legend in some circles.What happened to it?Im in South London as well.

[ridds]

If my pals insurance (living in South London) is anything to go by running costs won't be an issue, insurance will.

You got a garage?

Running isn't too bad. Mine stands me at £1500 so far this year and I've done 200 miles. Insurance and a service.

[Wilder]

Cerberas can be expensive to run unless your handy with the spanners (even then) Cheap -they aint. My last service at the factory was £1400, although that included a new radiator.Indie services can run £400 for a 6K to £650 for 12 K service. Tappets need adjusting on the 12K so expect to pay another £150-200 for this.Thats if theres nothing else they find when its being serviced.
Budget around £2-3K per year & you wont be far wrong, but get a good inspection from someone who knows their business, or you can be buy a real money pit if its been neglected. Pick a good one & you may never want to sell it.
For £16K you should be able to get a 99 car & thats what I would recommend (4.2 or 4.5)
On the plus side, any supercar will cost you at least as much, and what other car that can do 185+ can you buy for this money and look so good?

[MarkGolf]

Thanks for replies...

UR 02 SLO is now on a Z4 M coupe.. The TVR was sold years ago due to being a pain in the backside although I hear it's good as gold now!

To insure me on a 4.5 V8, the total comes to £1144 which is actually less than my VW Golf (F/I 3.0 VR6) and less than both, E36 and E46 M3 which was a suprise!

I was going to buy outright an E36 M3 Evolution convertible but found the world of credit and think I'll get the extra cash on loan. The TVR falls cheaper than an E46 so less to borrow. I've seen 2 that take my fancy and come below £16k and both appear to be cared for.

I'm very handy with spanners so wprking on the car is no problem although a workshop manual never goes a miss (CAN YOU GET THESE FOR THE TVR?)

What is the engine to go for, the 4.2 or 4.5?

I understand TVR are no more, is there an issue with parts and servicing? I live near Mole Valley who used to deal TVR's, I guess they could point me in the right direction for servicing and so on...

£1200 seems quite a hefty chunk but my friends M3 just cost him that at BMW, that did include new brakes all round..

What are wear and tear parts like, whats the price of new pads and discs?

I agree, for the money, the car looks stunning and can only imagine they are retty nippy!

Thanks!!

Edited by MarkGolf on Tuesday 27th March 22:46

[Ireland]

You will be using those spanners pretty often with the Cerb, but in my case at least, it will be for a lot of little niggly things.

Since I have no dealer to go to over here, it means I've had to figure a lot of bit out for myself.

This forum is brilliant for getting help with just about anything that you'll come across.

If you buy a Cerb and expect BMW build quality then you'll be disappointed but if you realise what you are getting involved with then you'll enjoy every mile.

Go for it ..... you'll be dead for thousands of years.

[Torque07]

MarkGolf said:

What is the engine to go for, the 4.2 or 4.5?

It really depends on who you are and what you want from the engine. Here are the factory specs for the 2 engines (there is also a Red Rose spec 4.5 so i'll put its figures in too):

4.2
Capacity: 4185 cc
Max Power: 360 bhp @ 6500 rpm
Max torque: 320 ft.lbs @ 4500 rpm
0 - 60 mph: 4.2 secs
0 - 100 mph: 9.9 secs
Top Speed: 180 mph+

4.5
Capacity: 4475 cc
Max Power: 420 bhp @ 6750 rpm
Max torque: 380 ft.lbs @ 5500 rpm
0 - 60 mph: 3.9 secs
0 - 100 mph: 8.3 secs
Top Speed: 195 mph+

4.5 Red Rose
Capacity: 4475cc
Max Power: 440 bhp @ 7250 rpm
Max Torque: 390 @ 5500 rpm
0 - 60 mph: 4.0
0 - 100 mph: 9.0
Top Speed: 201 mph

When I said above about the engine depending on who you are and what you want from it is because I have been told that there are 4.5's that come out of the factory with less BHP than standard 4.2's. The 4.2 are near enough bang on their claimed BHP.

The advantage to the 4.5 over the 4.2 is that the 4.5 engine is more tunable than the 4.2.

The Red Rose spec cars came out either 2001 or 2002. This used a 4.5 engine however the Red Rose produced another 20 BHP over the standard 4.5 due to a number of modifications to the cars. From looking at a Red Rose it is hard to spot the difference between it and the standard 4.5's (2000 model's onwards) However if you look inside the car there will be a 95/97 button on the dash below the window button and to the left of the gear stick.

I am guessing you know about the modifications done to the body and interior but if you don't I shall tell you.

Cars built 2000 onwards look slightly different to the earlier cars. The later cars have a higher roofline, different rear lights, painted door pillars and a different interior (Tuscan style). The reason that the cars were given a higher roofline was to improve visiblity out the windscreen and make the cabin fell more spacious as it lets in more light. The V8 Cerberas got the big round lights changed to 3 smaller lights. 2000, 2001 and some 2002 V8 cars will show a ring around the lights at the front.

Cerbera's 2000 onwards with tiny lights and Tuscan style interior were called lightweights this is because the bonnet, roof and wings were made lighter.

In late 2001 and 2002 onwards the rings round the lights were blended in to the bodywork and in late 2002 it was given a rear angled number plate.

I am guessing from you just asking about the 4.2 and 4.5 AJP V8's you arn't interested in the 4.0 Speed Six but if you are here is some factory specs on it for you:

Speed Six
Capacity: 3966cc
Max Power: 350 bhp @ 6800 rpm
Max torque: 330 ft.lbs @ 5000 rpm
0 - 60 mph: 4.4 secs
0 - 100 mph: 10.2 secs
Top Speed: 170 mph+

Hope I have helped you in some way and good luck searching for a car

Edited to make more sense

Edited by Torque07 on Wednesday 28th March 22:10

[gazzab]

Look out for cars with the right mods.
eg Spider wheels, sports exhaust, Nitron (etc) suspension.... (These are in the 'must have' category)
Also there are cars with tuned engines eg short induction plus remap (nice to have).
There are also cars with uprated brakes (really only a track day thing).
Personally I prefer cars with original body work, interiors and lights but whatever floats your boat.

[redleicester]

Not surprised by the insurance issues - when I switched from a Cerbera to an E39 M5 my insurance more than doubled despite the car being slower, more subtle and them both valued at the same price.... says a lot about Beemers....

[hugepiece]

I actually went from an E36 M3 Evo to a Cerb, you would not regret it, there is no contest. I found the M3 quite clinical and even dare I say it "boring" but the Cerb puts a smile on my face everytime I drive it. Don't forget that an instpection2 service on an evo wont give you much change from 700-800 quid anyway (1200 quid at BMW) so general service costs are not really any different.

[byker28i]

redleicester said:

Not surprised by the insurance issues - when I switched from a Cerbera to an E39 M5 my insurance more than doubled despite the car being slower, more subtle and them both valued at the same price.... says a lot about Beemers Drivers....

Corrected for you

[jensena]

Torque07 said:

MarkGolf said:

What is the engine to go for, the 4.2 or 4.5?

4.2
Capacity: 4185 cc
Max Power: 360 bhp @ 6500 rpm
Max torque: 320 ft.lbs @ 4500 rpm
0 - 60 mph: 4.2 secs
0 - 100 mph: 9.9 secs
Top Speed: 180 mph+

4.5
Capacity: 4475 cc
Max Power: 420 bhp @ 6750 rpm
Max torque: 380 ft.lbs @ 5500 rpm
0 - 60 mph: 3.9 secs
0 - 100 mph: 8.3 secs
Top Speed: 195 mph+

Just to make the point about these factory figures........
there are NO standard 4.5 Cerb's with those figures, were only just seeing heavily modded 4.5's even begining to approach them. In standard form the 4.2 is just as quick as the 4.5, perhaps even quicker.

[redleicester]

byker28i said:

redleicester said:

Not surprised by the insurance issues - when I switched from a Cerbera to an E39 M5 my insurance more than doubled despite the car being slower, more subtle and them both valued at the same price.... says a lot about Beemers Drivers....

Corrected for you

Snigger.

[BLUETHUNDER]

MarkGolf said:

Thanks for replies...

UR 02 SLO is now on a Z4 M coupe.. The TVR was sold years ago due to being a pain in the backside although I hear it's good as gold now!

To insure me on a 4.5 V8, the total comes to £1144 which is actually less than my VW Golf (F/I 3.0 VR6) and less than both, E36 and E46 M3 which was a suprise!

I was going to buy outright an E36 M3 Evolution convertible but found the world of credit and think I'll get the extra cash on loan. The TVR falls cheaper than an E46 so less to borrow. I've seen 2 that take my fancy and come below £16k and both appear to be cared for.

I'm very handy with spanners so wprking on the car is no problem although a workshop manual never goes a miss (CAN YOU GET THESE FOR THE TVR?)

What is the engine to go for, the 4.2 or 4.5?

I understand TVR are no more, is there an issue with parts and servicing? I live near Mole Valley who used to deal TVR's, I guess they could point me in the right direction for servicing and so on...

£1200 seems quite a hefty chunk but my friends M3 just cost him that at BMW, that did include new brakes all round..

What are wear and tear parts like, whats the price of new pads and discs?

I agree, for the money, the car looks stunning and can only imagine they are retty nippy!

Thanks!!

Edited by MarkGolf on Tuesday 27th March 22:46

As as been said before,dont expect BMW or Porsche build quality because you will be sorely dissapointed.But then again the Cerbera or any TVR for that matter has a certain air about them,that you can forgive the iffy build quality.As for workshop manual,then this forum is your workshop manual.Ive never known another forum that provides dedicated information like this one.All my repairs ive carried out have been through the knowledge of others on here.

[ajcj]

Before weighing in to this, let me make it perfectly clear that the guys who have replied above all have far more experience in this field than me, BUT I have just done what you are contemplating and bought a Cerbera - last weekend in fact. And I haven't been able to get the grin off my face since.

I went through the process you have outlined above, took a few test drives, asked around, but most importantly scoured this forum for everything I could find. There seem to be a few golden rules:

1. The later the better - buy the newest car you can, especially if you're looking at a Speed Six

2. Full service history, evidence of love and attention, some well-chosen upgrades, and an owner who hasn't regularly thrashed it from cold matter far more than colour, trim or mileage even. There is evidence to suggest these cars like to be driven, and very low mileage can be an indicator of it having sat in a garage for too long, storing up gremlins.

3. Buy within your budget and keep a grand (or two) tucked away for when something goes pop, which it will. You get supercar performance at way less outlay than a Porsche or a Ferrari, but guess what? - the deal is that you will probably (but not definitely) pay more in maintenance. You pays your money......

4. Buy from a specialist, or get one to look over your chosen car before you fall irrevocably in love with it. Find the thread 'I need a man who knows...' under General TVR gossip to see who I was recommended.

In the end I went for a 2001 Speed Six at not far over your budget. You'll read a lot of negative threads about the supposed fragility of the S6 engine, but I went for one that has been rebuilt already, and will treat it with love and respect. What swung it for me was that it felt like a much more manageable power delivery than the V8s, and as I wanted a car for most days, not just Bank Holiday blasts, and that my wife could drive, that was important. There's no performance difference in the real world between that and a 4.2, unless saving 0.2 seconds to 100 is useful to you?

With regard to the mods mentioned above, be careful of the Spiders. They look great but I've heard reports they can be relatively easy to damage.

Sorry if this sounds proscriptive but if it saves you some time then good luck! I'm sure others will come after and put me straight if I'm giving you a load of rubbish.

[Torque07]

jensena said:

Torque07 said:

MarkGolf said:

What is the engine to go for, the 4.2 or 4.5?

4.2
Capacity: 4185 cc
Max Power: 360 bhp @ 6500 rpm
Max torque: 320 ft.lbs @ 4500 rpm
0 - 60 mph: 4.2 secs
0 - 100 mph: 9.9 secs
Top Speed: 180 mph+

4.5
Capacity: 4475 cc
Max Power: 420 bhp @ 6750 rpm
Max torque: 380 ft.lbs @ 5500 rpm
0 - 60 mph: 3.9 secs
0 - 100 mph: 8.3 secs
Top Speed: 195 mph+

Just to make the point about these factory figures........
there are NO standard 4.5 Cerb's with those figures, were only just seeing heavily modded 4.5's even begining to approach them. In standard form the 4.2 is just as quick as the 4.5, perhaps even quicker.

Yea I know that a standard 4.5 is nowhere near the factory quoted figures. What I was trying to say in my origional post that I have heard that standard 4.2's come out of the factory with more BHP than a standard 4.5's but the 4.5 is more tunable than the 4.2.

So I was just saying if you were the type of person who likes modding you car to make it quicker go for a 4.5, but if you like to keep your car as original as possible and want it to be fast I would go for the 4.2.

[BCA]

Torque07 said:

Yea I know that a standard 4.5 is nowhere near the factory quoted figures. What I was trying to say in my origional post that I have heard that standard 4.2's come out of the factory with more BHP than a standard 4.5's but the 4.5 is more tunable than the 4.2.

So I was just saying if you were the type of person who likes modding you car to make it quicker go for a 4.5, but if you like to keep your car as original as possible and want it to be fast I would go for the 4.2.

4.0S6s usually do as they say on the tin, 350bhp and lower torque in Cerb terms, IIRC 280ish?
4.2's usually do as they say on the tin, 360bhp and more reasonable torque 310+?
4.5's are usually well down, 350-365bhp and again quite torquey at 320+, but more improtantly theres more lower down.

Realistically, not much in it at standard, the 4.2's meant to have better throttle response, but the 4.5's got the torque advantage througout the rev range - which is why they've always had the slightest of edges at higher speeds. When it comes to modding, no contest, the 4.5 is simply the choice for releasing more potential. A good map will see up to 390bhp (breathing limit) and an induction/exhaust to compliment will see 400bhp+ and much nicer power delivery at lower rpms... hardly what I would call "heavily tuned" - but the gains are extremely impressive in both numbers and driveability.

I've expereinced the difference of just the mapping alone and simply wouldnt hesitate to get a 4.5 mapped at the first opportunity - it really is that much better. Intake and such are to follow shortly for us hopefully...

Edited by BCA on Wednesday 28th March 22:36

[Wilder]

[quote=BCA]

4.0S6s usually do as they say on the tin, 350bhp and lower torque in Cerb terms, IIRC 280ish?
4.2's usually do as they say on the tin, 360bhp and more reasonable torque 310+?
4.5's are usually well down, 350-365bhp and again quite torquey at 320+, but more improtantly theres more lower down.

Actually no -- the sp 6 has more torque than the 4.2, thats 350 bhp/330 lb/ft vs 360bhp/320 lbs. (380 lbs factory figure quoted for the 4.5)
Thr speed six feels like its got more punch in the gears low down the rev range, than either the 4.2 or the 4.5 , but it does have shorter gearing than either of them.

[BCA]

Interesting, im yet to see a S6 engined Cerb make more torque than a 4.2?

Willing to stand corrected if you can show me some non-TVR figures?

edit: Looked up a few figures and it seems the highest S6 torque I have found is from a Cerb S6 running 310lb ft... a fair few of the other S6 cars were running less than this, but they were'nt Cerbs. At the same day there was only one 4.2 which ran 300lb ft, a bit down on what I was expecting... will look up some other figures for 4.2's tomorrow, but IIRC they're usually higher? 4.5's are a fair bit more torquey than this, and its not all about the peak figures either.

Edited by BCA on Thursday 29th March 00:56