Hot start problem
Discussion
I've sifted through a pile of old posts on the matter, and whilst there's a lot of talk around the subject, ranging from a US after-market mod, to heat shielding, I've not been able to find anything conclusive.
Symptoms: [Classic by all accounts] After a long run, thoroughly hot engine, and stopping, restarting results in no turn-over of the the starter motor, just a click. Leaving the engine to cool resolves the problem... in half an hour or so...
Questions:
1) Is there a danger this could relate to a failing startermotor?
2) Is there any remedial action which is proven to actually resolve the issue?
3) Fernies mentioned that they had a mod which "sometimes helps" - anyone got any details on that?
Thanks.
Symptoms: [Classic by all accounts] After a long run, thoroughly hot engine, and stopping, restarting results in no turn-over of the the starter motor, just a click. Leaving the engine to cool resolves the problem... in half an hour or so...
Questions:
1) Is there a danger this could relate to a failing startermotor?
2) Is there any remedial action which is proven to actually resolve the issue?
3) Fernies mentioned that they had a mod which "sometimes helps" - anyone got any details on that?
Thanks.
I think the answer to your main question is:
There is no definative answer.
Some people, like myself, believe the problem lies with the starter itself, the click is the solenoid jamming. The solution to my problem was replacement of the starter, I have wrapped mine in heat shield and so far (touch wood) it's still working. However some people have found that replacing the wiring and ensuring 12v at the starter has solved the problem, other swear that they have the patience to sit with their finger on the starter button for months and the starter will eventually turn over. I could have taken this route as mine, like yours, worked when it had cooled down for about an hour, so by default an hour of finger on starter and it would have worked!
You pays your money you takes your choice, try everything until it's sorted!
Sorry it's not a more conclusive reply.
Tim
There is no definative answer.
Some people, like myself, believe the problem lies with the starter itself, the click is the solenoid jamming. The solution to my problem was replacement of the starter, I have wrapped mine in heat shield and so far (touch wood) it's still working. However some people have found that replacing the wiring and ensuring 12v at the starter has solved the problem, other swear that they have the patience to sit with their finger on the starter button for months and the starter will eventually turn over. I could have taken this route as mine, like yours, worked when it had cooled down for about an hour, so by default an hour of finger on starter and it would have worked!
You pays your money you takes your choice, try everything until it's sorted!
Sorry it's not a more conclusive reply.
Tim
First thing you need to do is press and hold the starter button for atleast 3 mins but i have heard people say up to 5 mins. As long as the ignition is on the whole time. this will tell you if its electrical (if it starts) or if its mechanical (if it doesn't). If its electrical then I can point you to the most probable cause. Immobiliser!
Identifying the problem is not the issue here [in my case at least - but I know there are other problems out there of course].
The problem is a classic TVR, due to the starter being mounted in the back of the engine bay and being subject to extreme high temperatures. This results in a mechanical issue around the associated solenoid not actuating.
Holding the starter button in relates to an electrical issue, which this is not. Similarly, the immobiliser is fine - touch wood
All valid points in defining what the problem is of course - but this relates to a pre-defined specific problem, prevalent across TVRs, which I'm wondering whether anyone has overcome successfully.
Not an "off the road" job, but one which would be a "nice to have" fix for.
The problem is a classic TVR, due to the starter being mounted in the back of the engine bay and being subject to extreme high temperatures. This results in a mechanical issue around the associated solenoid not actuating.
Holding the starter button in relates to an electrical issue, which this is not. Similarly, the immobiliser is fine - touch wood
All valid points in defining what the problem is of course - but this relates to a pre-defined specific problem, prevalent across TVRs, which I'm wondering whether anyone has overcome successfully.
Not an "off the road" job, but one which would be a "nice to have" fix for.
sparky69 said:
First thing you need to do is press and hold the starter button for atleast 3 mins but i have heard people say up to 5 mins. As long as the ignition is on the whole time. this will tell you if its electrical (if it starts) or if its mechanical (if it doesn't). If its electrical then I can point you to the most probable cause. Immobiliser!
I am just trying to save you a bit of cash by checking the easy (cheap) things first. this happened to mine and took the better part of a week to sort out and almost a new starter motor but i'm glad i went throu all routes before forking out £300 on a starter motor. Oh and mine was the "clasic" tvr not starting when hot thing (like every time i had to stop for petrol) which ment having to leave it running. not good as you can imagine!
Didn't mean to sound ungrateful 
apologies...
Think places like KwikFit do free battery health checks too... might be worth taking it along as a matter of course.
apologies... Think places like KwikFit do free battery health checks too... might be worth taking it along as a matter of course.
sparky69 said:
I am just trying to save you a bit of cash by checking the easy (cheap) things first. this happened to mine and took the better part of a week to sort out and almost a new starter motor but i'm glad i went throu all routes before forking out £300 on a starter motor. Oh and mine was the "clasic" tvr not starting when hot thing (like every time i had to stop for petrol) which ment having to leave it running. not good as you can imagine!
My thoughts, which could be off the mark, are that if it was a low voltage/battery issue, then the problem would occur if the car was left, or at least at times when it's not only hot?
This is definitely related to the "hot" aspect as far as I can tell...
This is definitely related to the "hot" aspect as far as I can tell...
oli_quick said:
if you have the s/w you can check the voltage going across the ECU easily...if this is low a whole host of problems can ensue....
Got some further research done today - yup - wouldn't start after getting to hot, and then jumping out for half an hour. Have to wait for the engine to come right back down to the bottom of the temp gauge before it will restart.
Not a big problem in the overall scheme - but it is getting annoying.
Going to speak to Fernhursts who mentioned they had a "mod"... Hopefully they will be able to check out the voltage factor too and at least draw some definitive conclusion with a little luck!
Not a big problem in the overall scheme - but it is getting annoying.
Going to speak to Fernhursts who mentioned they had a "mod"... Hopefully they will be able to check out the voltage factor too and at least draw some definitive conclusion with a little luck!
For what it's worth I have this problem on my Griff at the moment. Racing Green looked at it an diagnosed a faulty starter motor which was therefore replaced. Seemed ok for a few weeks and I thought I'd seen the back of the problem however its back again now.
Very frustrating as I had to sit in it for 20 minutes the other day at the petrol station waiting for it to cool down. I now carefully plan my petrol trips to ensure the cars not too hot when I stop!!
Would be interested in any fixes however will be going back to Racing Green for them to check again when I get a chance.
Cheers,
Graham
Very frustrating as I had to sit in it for 20 minutes the other day at the petrol station waiting for it to cool down. I now carefully plan my petrol trips to ensure the cars not too hot when I stop!!
Would be interested in any fixes however will be going back to Racing Green for them to check again when I get a chance.
Cheers,
Graham
What were your symptoms? Mine is solely after getting hot. Leave it until the temp gauge hits "30 degrees" again and it's guaranteed (so far) to start again fine - irrespective of how many times I've tried to re-start inbetween. If it was amps/voltage I would expect trying to restart, stereo and getting in and out to negatively impact this and result in it not starting for longer - but its not that case 
No replies from Fernies yet...
No replies from Fernies yet...
blueflash said:
If your getting the battery checked ,probabley worth going to a auto-electrical place .Mine was fine on voltage but well down on amps ,70 instead of 580 - cranking power(apparently), no wonder the bloody thing wouldn't turn.
mine used to do it ... replaced starter and sorted it BUT ...
think you should try the rewiring imobiliser trick first to see if it was that afterall!!
My new starter was very intermittent 6months after fitting warm and hot (not cold)
The "starter fixed all read" thread will tell you more! very simple to try!
DAS
think you should try the rewiring imobiliser trick first to see if it was that afterall!!
My new starter was very intermittent 6months after fitting warm and hot (not cold)
The "starter fixed all read" thread will tell you more! very simple to try!
DAS
Phil_edge said:
What were your symptoms? Mine is solely after getting hot. Leave it until the temp gauge hits "30 degrees" again and it's guaranteed (so far) to start again fine - irrespective of how many times I've tried to re-start inbetween. If it was amps/voltage I would expect trying to restart, stereo and getting in and out to negatively impact this and result in it not starting for longer - but its not that case
No replies from Fernies yet...
No replies from Fernies yet...
blueflash said:
If your getting the battery checked ,probabley worth going to a auto-electrical place .Mine was fine on voltage but well down on amps ,70 instead of 580 - cranking power(apparently), no wonder the bloody thing wouldn't turn.
I haven't a hot starter prob ,i just had a non start problem and the battery was less than a year old. Also removed earth lead to find it was worn half through by rubbing against a metal pipe .Battery was exchanged for anew one under its own guarantee. I posted cos of your suggestion of getting a health check done by Kwikfit !, i did the same and they diagnosed the battery as sound , it was only that i was getting a new earth lead made - that i took the battery along for a second opinion , and are glad i did. Hope it helps .
Found some additional info on the electrics angle from earlier - relates to wiring getting hot, thus increasing resistance to the point of affecting the amperage reaching the starter. This was on Chimps and Griffs to date, but no reason why it wouldn't hold for the Cerb as far as I can see.
Still - couple of options to investigate. Will keep y'all posted.
Still - couple of options to investigate. Will keep y'all posted.
Well, finally managed to cross paths with the guys at Fernies...
First - they were quite surprised to hear it was a Cerb.
Second - they suggested looking first at a relay (in with the fuses?) which might be an issue, and be a relatively cheap place to start.
Also suggested looking at the voltage across the starter when the problem is present.
Not much track record in dealing with the problem though disappointingly.
Any thoughts on how to best approach measuring the voltage? Where / how etc? Will have a multimeter soon enough
First - they were quite surprised to hear it was a Cerb.
Second - they suggested looking first at a relay (in with the fuses?) which might be an issue, and be a relatively cheap place to start.
Also suggested looking at the voltage across the starter when the problem is present.
Not much track record in dealing with the problem though disappointingly.
Any thoughts on how to best approach measuring the voltage? Where / how etc? Will have a multimeter soon enough
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