Discussion
Hello! Hopefully will be a Cerbera owner this week, fingers twisted (and toes!)
My brother and I saw the Phoenix Cerbera at the Goodwoods festival of speed show last year and fell in love instantly with the Cerbera, thanks Ash! (we never heard of a cerbera before then!!!!!!) if it was not for your project I wouldnt be looking at TVR as a viable next car right now.
Question is, I have emailed via the phoenix website and have had no replies, does anyone know the status of the phoenix? is it finished? browsing through the search I find posts hinting Austec Racing have not got an engine together still? since July at Goodwoods last year? I was going to use Austec for performance upgrades but do they not deliver?
Can someone put me in touch with Ash? my email address is davidjohnson@rocketship.com
anyone know if TCS are any good as an alternative to Austec? I want 450bhp at least without turbos/nos/blower, is this a realistic goal with a 4.5?
My brother and I saw the Phoenix Cerbera at the Goodwoods festival of speed show last year and fell in love instantly with the Cerbera, thanks Ash! (we never heard of a cerbera before then!!!!!!) if it was not for your project I wouldnt be looking at TVR as a viable next car right now.
Question is, I have emailed via the phoenix website and have had no replies, does anyone know the status of the phoenix? is it finished? browsing through the search I find posts hinting Austec Racing have not got an engine together still? since July at Goodwoods last year? I was going to use Austec for performance upgrades but do they not deliver?
Can someone put me in touch with Ash? my email address is davidjohnson@rocketship.com
anyone know if TCS are any good as an alternative to Austec? I want 450bhp at least without turbos/nos/blower, is this a realistic goal with a 4.5?
Edited by DavidJohnson on Wednesday 20th June 12:00
Edited by DavidJohnson on Wednesday 20th June 12:05
Tvr_Edd said:
anythings realistic if you have the budget 
genuine 450 would need some internal work unless you have a very good base car to start with
budget shouldnt be an issue.genuine 450 would need some internal work unless you have a very good base car to start with
I have a highly tuned Pulsar GTR and am very familiar with the kind of work involved.
My uncertainty lays with the question of who to use for the work? I dont know of any highly tuned cars Austec Racing has completed? searching through this forum I find a lot of praise but no finished projects or results?
but the other tuner TCS come across very reputable with plenty dyno charts, I just dont want to make a mistake like Ash has made with 2-3 tuners who couldnt deliver it seems?
does anyone know the phone number of TCS?
what about TVR Power? are they any good?
ideally i would like to start a good relationship with a tuner who delivers on schedule and within a realistic budget, have been stung a few times with my Pulsar and would rather this time do my research.
my other concern is the drivetrain, found many threads on broken gearboxes and failing clutches, surely with 450bhp these components may need addressing? what are the proven alternatives?
TCS can give you some 420 bhp via mapping and breathing.
There is plenty of talk of different co's doing various things to tune the cars to a higher level but not much has been seen on the road.
The Phoenix project appears to be on hold.
There are a couple of 5 ltrs conversions out there.
If you want serious power then you will need to spend plenty of dosh - prob over £10K.
IF you want a good 30% increase on a 4.5 then spend a couple of K with Joolz at TCS.
There is plenty of talk of different co's doing various things to tune the cars to a higher level but not much has been seen on the road.
The Phoenix project appears to be on hold.
There are a couple of 5 ltrs conversions out there.
If you want serious power then you will need to spend plenty of dosh - prob over £10K.
IF you want a good 30% increase on a 4.5 then spend a couple of K with Joolz at TCS.
Haven't got time to add much at the moment but I know Ash has the project on hold for his own reasons which I respect.
To balaznce this out a bit, the original hope to get the engine up and running earlier this year was based on putting together the engineered bits as supplied. However when the billet crank doesn't fit, the pistons are too big and it has a static compression of over 16:1 (for a blown engine
) you pretty much have to start from scratch, or put it on hold. To be fair, progress was made in all those areas by Austec, but the time scales required, aided by TVR closing and main dealers no longer doing servicing put even more pressure on.
I think you are missing the point about tuning and rebuilds, TCS can tune your car to 380-440hp dependant on want you give him, same as Austec do. Austec are also engine builders and body shop too. They will do a standard rebuild or if you want a redesigned rebuild
.
There are a lot of Austec rebuilds out there but most owners do not post details due to a history of excessive 'banter' on PH.
gtg.....
To balaznce this out a bit, the original hope to get the engine up and running earlier this year was based on putting together the engineered bits as supplied. However when the billet crank doesn't fit, the pistons are too big and it has a static compression of over 16:1 (for a blown engine
) you pretty much have to start from scratch, or put it on hold. To be fair, progress was made in all those areas by Austec, but the time scales required, aided by TVR closing and main dealers no longer doing servicing put even more pressure on.I think you are missing the point about tuning and rebuilds, TCS can tune your car to 380-440hp dependant on want you give him, same as Austec do. Austec are also engine builders and body shop too. They will do a standard rebuild or if you want a redesigned rebuild
. There are a lot of Austec rebuilds out there but most owners do not post details due to a history of excessive 'banter' on PH.
gtg.....
Wot Harry said ^^^^^^
Austec/TCS do similar things for similar money, and IMO it comes down to geography/what you want done (rebuild as against 'tuning'), both do the short induction (Austec/ACT or TCS/Whirlwind). Austec will also service/repair your car whereas I believe Joolz/TCS only do tuning these days (although he used to maintain Cerbs and is, alledgedly, very knowledgeable on the subject.)
Thing is, Joolz is a bit 'Northern'
Austec/TCS do similar things for similar money, and IMO it comes down to geography/what you want done (rebuild as against 'tuning'), both do the short induction (Austec/ACT or TCS/Whirlwind). Austec will also service/repair your car whereas I believe Joolz/TCS only do tuning these days (although he used to maintain Cerbs and is, alledgedly
, very knowledgeable on the subject.)Thing is, Joolz is a bit 'Northern'
Thanks Gazzab and Harry.
So TCS is the way forward you think Gazzab? Will call them today if someone could give me a website link/phone number?
Edd in Birminhgam? Pulsar owner too? A man of my liking!
I'll be collecting the cerbera this week, will drop you a mail as soon as.
Gazzab 420bhp is max via TCS? but the dyno charts show 440+? my budget is around 15k (got a stonking deal on the cerbera so can afford to bring her up to spec) but honest reliable service and delivery is paramount, I wont mention names but a highly-praised jap-tuner ruined my Pulsar club project for 2 years not forgetting my bank balance when 10% of the cost was all it would take with another tuner and would have given me what I was after in the first place! I think Edd knows where I'm coming from.
Call it market research? I hope this isnt breaking forum rules?
Who highly recommends TCS?
and who highly recommends Austec?
for tuning TVR for street and track.
So TCS is the way forward you think Gazzab? Will call them today if someone could give me a website link/phone number?
Edd in Birminhgam? Pulsar owner too? A man of my liking!
I'll be collecting the cerbera this week, will drop you a mail as soon as.
Gazzab 420bhp is max via TCS? but the dyno charts show 440+? my budget is around 15k (got a stonking deal on the cerbera so can afford to bring her up to spec) but honest reliable service and delivery is paramount, I wont mention names but a highly-praised jap-tuner ruined my Pulsar club project for 2 years not forgetting my bank balance when 10% of the cost was all it would take with another tuner and would have given me what I was after in the first place! I think Edd knows where I'm coming from.
Call it market research? I hope this isnt breaking forum rules?
Who highly recommends TCS?
and who highly recommends Austec?
for tuning TVR for street and track.
HarryW said:
Haven't got time to add much at the moment but I know Ash has the project on hold for his own reasons which I respect.
To balaznce this out a bit, the original hope to get the engine up and running earlier this year was based on putting together the engineered bits as supplied. However when the billet crank doesn't fit, the pistons are too big and it has a static compression of over 16:1 (for a blown engine) you pretty much have to start from scratch, or put it on hold. To be fair, progress was made in all those areas by Austec, but the time scales required, aided by TVR closing and main dealers no longer doing servicing put even more pressure on.
I think you are missing the point about tuning and rebuilds, TCS can tune your car to 380-440hp dependant on want you give him, same as Austec do. Austec are also engine builders and body shop too. They will do a standard rebuild or if you want a redesigned rebuild.
There are a lot of Austec rebuilds out there but most owners do not post details due to a history of excessive 'banter' on PH.
gtg.....
Harry why is the Phoenix project on hold? how long has it been on hold?To balaznce this out a bit, the original hope to get the engine up and running earlier this year was based on putting together the engineered bits as supplied. However when the billet crank doesn't fit, the pistons are too big and it has a static compression of over 16:1 (for a blown engine
) you pretty much have to start from scratch, or put it on hold. To be fair, progress was made in all those areas by Austec, but the time scales required, aided by TVR closing and main dealers no longer doing servicing put even more pressure on.I think you are missing the point about tuning and rebuilds, TCS can tune your car to 380-440hp dependant on want you give him, same as Austec do. Austec are also engine builders and body shop too. They will do a standard rebuild or if you want a redesigned rebuild
. There are a lot of Austec rebuilds out there but most owners do not post details due to a history of excessive 'banter' on PH.
gtg.....
Reading through the history SXS/Ashs last post was in March and the project was no further than when I met him at Goodwoods? I'd like to hear the reasons from the horses mouth? another reason I am trying to get ahold of him.
I was very keen on Austec Racing and still am but I'm not convinced, looked at your profile and past posts and you were to get your car back last year? is your project complete? what are the results? I apologise for being slightly nosy, it is a field report from actual owners that I'm looking for and not hearsay, the last mistake I want to make is to take advise frome one or two owners who are biased as that comes at a hefty price in the tuning world, been there wore the burnt t-shirt!
DavidJohnson said:
Thanks Gazzab and Harry.
So TCS is the way forward you think Gazzab? Will call them today if someone could give me a website link/phone number?
Edd in Birminhgam? Pulsar owner too? A man of my liking!
I'll be collecting the cerbera this week, will drop you a mail as soon as.
Gazzab 420bhp is max via TCS? but the dyno charts show 440+? my budget is around 15k (got a stonking deal on the cerbera so can afford to bring her up to spec) but honest reliable service and delivery is paramount, I wont mention names but a highly-praised jap-tuner ruined my Pulsar club project for 2 years not forgetting my bank balance when 10% of the cost was all it would take with another tuner and would have given me what I was after in the first place! I think Edd knows where I'm coming from.
Call it market research? I hope this isnt breaking forum rules?
Who highly recommends TCS?
and who highly recommends Austec?
for tuning TVR for street and track.
I hope it wasn't H**** as they ruined my car So TCS is the way forward you think Gazzab? Will call them today if someone could give me a website link/phone number?
Edd in Birminhgam? Pulsar owner too? A man of my liking!
I'll be collecting the cerbera this week, will drop you a mail as soon as.
Gazzab 420bhp is max via TCS? but the dyno charts show 440+? my budget is around 15k (got a stonking deal on the cerbera so can afford to bring her up to spec) but honest reliable service and delivery is paramount, I wont mention names but a highly-praised jap-tuner ruined my Pulsar club project for 2 years not forgetting my bank balance when 10% of the cost was all it would take with another tuner and would have given me what I was after in the first place! I think Edd knows where I'm coming from.
Call it market research? I hope this isnt breaking forum rules?
Who highly recommends TCS?
and who highly recommends Austec?
for tuning TVR for street and track.
David - I'll send you an email..
Edited by Tvr_Edd on Wednesday 20th June 13:34
way)JensenA said:
DavidJohnson said:
.......... I want 450bhp at least without turbos/nos/blower...
David - What do you want 450hp for? 350-370 seems to be the norm for Cerberas and right at the top end of the revs, thats wayyyyy off the mark to what I'm used to, plus my Pulsar is lighter. Couldnt forgive myself for driving a car that doesnt keep up with the Pulsar. Especially looking at how low-powered Cerberas are at mid-rpm, dont quite fancy the idea driving around at 6000rpm all the time.
DavidJohnson said:
JensenA said:
DavidJohnson said:
.......... I want 450bhp at least without turbos/nos/blower...
David - What do you want 450hp for? 350-370 seems to be the norm for Cerberas and right at the top end of the revs, thats wayyyyy off the mark to what I'm used to, plus my Pulsar is lighter. Couldnt forgive myself for driving a car that doesnt keep up with the Pulsar. Especially looking at how low-powered Cerberas are at mid-rpm, dont quite fancy the idea driving around at 6000rpm all the time.
Most I think you will see from a 4.5 will be 440, and maybe 450 with internal mods, and lots of mapping time on the rollers. NickCCC was 440.8 BHP, and he was going to have the manifolds changed to see if he can reach the 450 mark, but this is unproven at the moment ( I think) , and 441 seems the highest for a 4.5 unless Harry can shed some figures from his build yet?
I think Craigs 4.7 with NOS was in the region of 525 at the fly, and for 15k this is achievable I would say, even with a new balanced billet crank. and I seem to recall it did 10.1 qtr mile at the pod.
I think BOSS Cerbera 5.0 was in the 525-550 region, not too sure on that one, but fully balance and I did hear him write somewhere that is was balance to rev at 8000rmp ( I might be wrong there)
Mr F
DavidJohnson said:
I want 450bhp at least without turbos/nos/blower, is this a realistic goal with a 4.5?
TCS can do you plenty of mods externally to push the 400bhp+, without having the engine hauled out of the car and stripped. He can put you in contact with engine builders etc(iirc)Austec can build your engine to any thing you want, within reason. RR spec, custom pistons, 4.7ltr, 5.0ltr and so on. Turn around seems to be slower due to the closure of Gatwick TVR most TVR's have started going their for servicing etc, so it's usually very busy.
Give them both a call;
TCS - 07871945217
Austec - 01293 531080
DavidJohnson said:
JensenA said:
DavidJohnson said:
.......... I want 450bhp at least without turbos/nos/blower...
David - What do you want 450hp for? 350-370 seems to be the norm for Cerberas and right at the top end of the revs, thats wayyyyy off the mark to what I'm used to, plus my Pulsar is lighter. Couldnt forgive myself for driving a car that doesnt keep up with the Pulsar. Especially looking at how low-powered Cerberas are at mid-rpm, dont quite fancy the idea driving around at 6000rpm all the time.
Steve.
Its pretty much covered in this thread;
Another Birmingham based Cerb owner here, we've been stung by several "specialists" - we were about to sell up before we met Joolz of TrackCarSolutions. He's the only person we'll trust with our car and is the first person we call whenever we want to fettle the Cerb. Geographically we're slightly further away from Austec so have never used thier services - they've got a good reputation on here though - which is a very good indication of how they operate.
For us, TrackCar is the one to talk to, definately give him a ring. He doesnt build engines, but he'll advise you who to use and then be able to do everything else with it. From the sounds of things, you're an ideal customer for him, he loves getting involved with projects like this.
All the best with it!
Another Birmingham based Cerb owner here, we've been stung by several "specialists" - we were about to sell up before we met Joolz of TrackCarSolutions. He's the only person we'll trust with our car and is the first person we call whenever we want to fettle the Cerb. Geographically we're slightly further away from Austec so have never used thier services - they've got a good reputation on here though - which is a very good indication of how they operate.
For us, TrackCar is the one to talk to, definately give him a ring. He doesnt build engines, but he'll advise you who to use and then be able to do everything else with it. From the sounds of things, you're an ideal customer for him, he loves getting involved with projects like this.
All the best with it!
David
You should get the car and run it for a bit, you may find that there are specific items which have to be addressed before you start improving it.
It will not be the same as a pulsar GT thingy (I know a chap whi had one with plenty of power which was very quick) it will be an utterly different experience with the power delivery so you may find that you get more with less (so to speak).
Anyway well done, I still yearn for my old cerbera nice to see andrew is finally getting it painted!
D
You should get the car and run it for a bit, you may find that there are specific items which have to be addressed before you start improving it.
It will not be the same as a pulsar GT thingy (I know a chap whi had one with plenty of power which was very quick) it will be an utterly different experience with the power delivery so you may find that you get more with less (so to speak).
Anyway well done, I still yearn for my old cerbera nice to see andrew is finally getting it painted!
D
David,
Welcome to the world of Cerberas......
I've had two Cerbs and both have been tuned / modified / upgraded and maintained via Joolz at TCS (Track Car Solutions). Do a search of my threads through my profile and you'll find plenty of detailed info on all of the mods I had done. My aim was to push the engine as far as I safely could without any internal work.....we got to 425bhp before I sold up but I knew that there was more to come and reckon it was good for inxs of 430bhp. Thereafter I would have gone for an attack of the internals of the engine with a view to 500bhp, this would also have involved bespoke manifold / exhaust and vastly modified induction. The best thing about trusting the car with Joolz is that you get to learn so much about the car, it's set-up, the engine etc etc etc, we did a fair bit of testing in the 2 years I had my 4.5 with the some astonishing and at times disappointing results.....but ultimately it was always worth the effort.
You have been given excellent advice so far in that you need to call both Austec and TCS and explain to them what you want to achieve. If you just dangle £15k in front of them then I am sure they can both find ways of absorbing it. A Whirlwind Induction kit, linked de-cats, pulse plates, big bore exhaust, filter and box mod and remap will give you 420-430bhp dependant upon "how good" your standard engine is (they can vary by as much as 50bhp), further induction mods may see further gains. Beyond this you are in rebuild territory and that's where the spending really begins........but are you guaranteed 450bhp? Other option is to drop a yank lump in the engine bay as per Brummiewedge.........it's an absolute stormer or a Cerb........
Jules.
Welcome to the world of Cerberas......
I've had two Cerbs and both have been tuned / modified / upgraded and maintained via Joolz at TCS (Track Car Solutions). Do a search of my threads through my profile and you'll find plenty of detailed info on all of the mods I had done. My aim was to push the engine as far as I safely could without any internal work.....we got to 425bhp before I sold up but I knew that there was more to come and reckon it was good for inxs of 430bhp. Thereafter I would have gone for an attack of the internals of the engine with a view to 500bhp, this would also have involved bespoke manifold / exhaust and vastly modified induction. The best thing about trusting the car with Joolz is that you get to learn so much about the car, it's set-up, the engine etc etc etc, we did a fair bit of testing in the 2 years I had my 4.5 with the some astonishing and at times disappointing results.....but ultimately it was always worth the effort.
You have been given excellent advice so far in that you need to call both Austec and TCS and explain to them what you want to achieve. If you just dangle £15k in front of them then I am sure they can both find ways of absorbing it. A Whirlwind Induction kit, linked de-cats, pulse plates, big bore exhaust, filter and box mod and remap will give you 420-430bhp dependant upon "how good" your standard engine is (they can vary by as much as 50bhp), further induction mods may see further gains. Beyond this you are in rebuild territory and that's where the spending really begins........but are you guaranteed 450bhp? Other option is to drop a yank lump in the engine bay as per Brummiewedge.........it's an absolute stormer or a Cerb........
Jules.
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