Body off lift idea
Discussion
Just checked the chassis of my new pride and joy. Oh dear. I'll run it for a few more months but the chassis will need to come out for refurbishment. I’m on a limited budget and have limited space so here is my idea.
Buy four 1.2m farm jacks. You can get them on ebay for £30. Weld some outriggers on the feet to provide massive stability. Place two jacks either side of the car. Run scaffold bars under the car between opposite jacks. Da, da my own vehicle lift for £150.
Raise the whole vehicle, axle stand the body, lower the chassis.
Naturally I would take the engine and gearbox out first to reduce weight.
Have I missed something? Is there a better way of doing this?
These farm jacks reach 1.2m so I could get the body to an ideal height for underside work.
What is the vehicle weight without the engine and gearbox?
Buy four 1.2m farm jacks. You can get them on ebay for £30. Weld some outriggers on the feet to provide massive stability. Place two jacks either side of the car. Run scaffold bars under the car between opposite jacks. Da, da my own vehicle lift for £150.
Raise the whole vehicle, axle stand the body, lower the chassis.
Naturally I would take the engine and gearbox out first to reduce weight.
Have I missed something? Is there a better way of doing this?
These farm jacks reach 1.2m so I could get the body to an ideal height for underside work.
What is the vehicle weight without the engine and gearbox?
sounds like a good plan ...
ive done as much of mine at the front that I could get too with the manifolds off.
The chassis had holed on the top tube under the manifold drivers side - common apparently.
welded in a new section - not pretty but solid! made the decision would tackle full job when engine work required
(so ages I hope!)
The powder coat is so rubbish its worth scraping off as much as possible ASAP as water sits between it and steel!
I smootherited and smothered in waxoyl - year and 1/2 later still looks ok
(probably eating itself from inside out now!!)
Make lots of notes and piccys if you do do it and post on here - its an invaluable source.
Im sure you will get help and support if required !
DAS
ive done as much of mine at the front that I could get too with the manifolds off.
The chassis had holed on the top tube under the manifold drivers side - common apparently.
welded in a new section - not pretty but solid! made the decision would tackle full job when engine work required
(so ages I hope!)
The powder coat is so rubbish its worth scraping off as much as possible ASAP as water sits between it and steel!
I smootherited and smothered in waxoyl - year and 1/2 later still looks ok
(probably eating itself from inside out now!!)
Make lots of notes and piccys if you do do it and post on here - its an invaluable source.
Im sure you will get help and support if required !
DAS
There is a 1/2in hole on one of the outriggers behind the front wheel where the mud gets trapped. The rest of the chassis has about 70% coating missing and is covered in rurface rust. For the remainder of this year the plan is to patch the hole, Waxoil, keep it out of the rain and plan the body lift.
These farm jacks look great, they are cheap, can be used to push and pull, and have a 3.5tonne capacity. That's 14tonnes for £160. Excellent safety margin and good value for money.
I'm assuming the outriggers are the least stressed area because the engine weight and suspension is mounted on the central spars. However, I could be wrong as the outriggers would see significant bending moments during cornering.
I don't suppose anyone has done a simple finite element analysis to see where the loads concentrate. It would make me a lot less worried about the rust hole.
These farm jacks look great, they are cheap, can be used to push and pull, and have a 3.5tonne capacity. That's 14tonnes for £160. Excellent safety margin and good value for money.
I'm assuming the outriggers are the least stressed area because the engine weight and suspension is mounted on the central spars. However, I could be wrong as the outriggers would see significant bending moments during cornering.
I don't suppose anyone has done a simple finite element analysis to see where the loads concentrate. It would make me a lot less worried about the rust hole.
Rust is like slow spreading bacteria, eventually it will work its way to a weld and crack the weld, when that happens, you'll be more worried about how you come out of it alive if the whole body lost its stability cos an outrigger hit the floor at speed!!
If you got a hole, you gotta cut it out and weld new material in, thats the norm with spaceframes, do NOT apply the old addage here 'leave it till it breaks'... its not safe and will be a hell of a lot more costly in the long run.
From what you've described, your chassis sounds bad, you can attempt it yourself or you can ring around to people like RT Racing and TVRBodyshop and get quotes for chassis restoration and go that route with some form of guarantee, ideally the chassis should be dipped in that acid shit and then blown down and repaired where it needs to be and then properly baked in a cage with the right coatings, and then waxoyl or even rubberite amply spread over for extra security.
If you got a hole, you gotta cut it out and weld new material in, thats the norm with spaceframes, do NOT apply the old addage here 'leave it till it breaks'... its not safe and will be a hell of a lot more costly in the long run.
From what you've described, your chassis sounds bad, you can attempt it yourself or you can ring around to people like RT Racing and TVRBodyshop and get quotes for chassis restoration and go that route with some form of guarantee, ideally the chassis should be dipped in that acid shit and then blown down and repaired where it needs to be and then properly baked in a cage with the right coatings, and then waxoyl or even rubberite amply spread over for extra security.
Agreed Ash ... which is why I went ahead and cut my top tube out ...
I still think your idea of patch smother enjoy and winter project is the best one.
From what I hear the outriggers are probably shagged on most cerbs ...
if they look bad from below probably worse on top!
I still intend doing mine at some stage but when it needs it rather than losing the car
for months and costing a fortune ( my outriggers dont look too bad (fingers crossed!))
Certainly better knowing what you have rather than having somthing somebody else has bodged.
I wonder how many cerbs are going around with body filler in the tubes! - thats more of a worry!
Happy motoring! ... DAS
I still think your idea of patch smother enjoy and winter project is the best one.
From what I hear the outriggers are probably shagged on most cerbs ...
if they look bad from below probably worse on top!
I still intend doing mine at some stage but when it needs it rather than losing the car
for months and costing a fortune ( my outriggers dont look too bad (fingers crossed!))
Certainly better knowing what you have rather than having somthing somebody else has bodged.
I wonder how many cerbs are going around with body filler in the tubes! - thats more of a worry!
Happy motoring! ... DAS
brummiewedge said:
When i took the body off mine, despite the bloke before me paying £1800 for a body lift to do the outriggers they were paper thin, and filler had been used. If that body had been lifted i am a Dutchman, the 1st bolt i touched snapped off cos it was corroded. Van Brum.
Having body-off restored over 40+ (that is not including straight chassis refurbishments OR my own cars 51, most of these have had body offs) cars to concours condtion and 1 body lift, I will say that it is NOT possible to replace sill tubes properly in place..I TIG/MIG steel and bronze, have lots of pieces plasma cut and have over 30 years worth of tools to ALL special to refurbishing chassis on TVRs from 1963 through to 2000. Adrian@Adrian@ said:
brummiewedge said:
When i took the body off mine, despite the bloke before me paying £1800 for a body lift to do the outriggers they were paper thin, and filler had been used. If that body had been lifted i am a Dutchman, the 1st bolt i touched snapped off cos it was corroded. Van Brum.
Having body-off restored over 40+ (that is not including straight chassis refurbishments OR my own cars 51, most of these have had body offs) cars to concours condtion and 1 body lift, I will say that it is NOT possible to replace sill tubes properly in place..I TIG/MIG steel and bronze, have lots of pieces plasma cut and have over 30 years worth of tools to ALL special to refurbishing chassis on TVRs from 1963 through to 2000. Adrian@email me through my profile if you like.
Ta
Tim
TT Tim said:
Adrian@ said:
brummiewedge said:
When i took the body off mine, despite the bloke before me paying £1800 for a body lift to do the outriggers they were paper thin, and filler had been used. If that body had been lifted i am a Dutchman, the 1st bolt i touched snapped off cos it was corroded. Van Brum.
Having body-off restored over 40+ (that is not including straight chassis refurbishments OR my own cars 51, most of these have had body offs) cars to concours condtion and 1 body lift, I will say that it is NOT possible to replace sill tubes properly in place..I TIG/MIG steel and bronze, have lots of pieces plasma cut and have over 30 years worth of tools to ALL special to refurbishing chassis on TVRs from 1963 through to 2000. Adrian@email me through my profile if you like.
Ta
Tim
Adrian, a couple of questions.
I have a gas welding C&G and plan training for my TIG certificate so I may be able to tackle the repairs myself. With a tubular chassis are damaged areas replaced completely or repaired with butt welded sections? It seems a shame to replace several feet of sound tube to repair an inch or so of deep rust.
Also, is there a material specification for the steel?
Are there any tools out there for checking the wall thickness of steel tube. (No jokes about hammers please)
I have a gas welding C&G and plan training for my TIG certificate so I may be able to tackle the repairs myself. With a tubular chassis are damaged areas replaced completely or repaired with butt welded sections? It seems a shame to replace several feet of sound tube to repair an inch or so of deep rust.
Also, is there a material specification for the steel?
Are there any tools out there for checking the wall thickness of steel tube. (No jokes about hammers please)
jonbarrett said:
Adrian, a couple of questions.
I have a gas welding C&G and plan training for my TIG certificate so I may be able to tackle the repairs myself. With a tubular chassis are damaged areas replaced completely or repaired with butt welded sections? It seems a shame to replace several feet of sound tube to repair an inch or so of deep rust.
Also, is there a material specification for the steel?
Are there any tools out there for checking the wall thickness of steel tube. (No jokes about hammers please)
Hi Jon, I use lots of different welding methods to do each joint....If I repair the rot where the exhausts are externally rotting tubes away, I am cutting off end plates making a bespoke slotted 10 gauge tube that will roll around the kink in the chassis tube and 10 mm drilling around the problem area, knocking this down the inside and puddle welding the the internal tube to the outer, then grinding a slot along the outer to weld my internal tube, and then bronze filling and dressing off, then re capping the end.I have a gas welding C&G and plan training for my TIG certificate so I may be able to tackle the repairs myself. With a tubular chassis are damaged areas replaced completely or repaired with butt welded sections? It seems a shame to replace several feet of sound tube to repair an inch or so of deep rust.
Also, is there a material specification for the steel?
Are there any tools out there for checking the wall thickness of steel tube. (No jokes about hammers please)
Where the round tube abutt flat tubes I bronze infill. Where a tube HAS to be replaced rather than, if say the doing both joints as butt I will make joints eliptical at one end.
The tube is ERW. As for testing, I find that sound is the best to test the material, so a hammer will work! but I will drill and re-weld the drill hole up if I feel that I need to check.
RE Costs, having rebuilt every model from 1963 up to 2000..that does NOT include a Cerbera
so you will have to bear with me, If you can accept 173 picture or would like a CD of a 4 litre NOS Chimaera rebuild or go (copy/paste if you need to) www.brockfordtechnology.co.uk/gallery/TVRRebuild as see Alan Coutts M Series car pictures (don't miss out on his Pitts specials stuff!
Adrian@
Edited by Adrian@ on Wednesday 4th July 20:26
BCA said:
Would you consider doing a cerbera, and if so what are the approximate costs - I should think theres a fair bit more work involved than with a Chim/Griff.
I am booked through till November, but I see no reason to see the Cerbera as any different from the Griff/Chimp apart from the odd querk where the newer the cars are, the more bespoke they get (as in special to TVR). I would have to check spec. so that the car could be fully upgraded to the very last spec.Adrian@
Edited by Adrian@ on Wednesday 4th July 20:50
brummiewedge said:
When i took the body off mine, despite the bloke before me paying £1800 for a body lift to do the outriggers they were paper thin, and filler had been used. If that body had been lifted i am a Dutchman, the 1st bolt i touched snapped off cos it was corroded. Van Brum.
geez ... thats the reason I would rather do it myself rather than paying for someone elses bodges ... at least its then my choice on what grade of filler is used!!! ( no I didnt I rather "over welded" the situation instead and then couldnt get a grinder in to tidy anything!!!)Secret is to keep enjoying them in a safe manner as long as we can!!
Love em!
DAS
Hi Jon .. going back to your first post I can't see any reason why that technique shouldn't work just fine .. i use a similar technique but with my 2 post ramp of lifting the whole car up then lowering just the chassis with the body suspended on large axle stands and planks of wood. Here's a Griff chassis i've just repaired / powder coated and rebuilt back onto the car now. I repaired teh chassis with seamless T45 rollcage tubing because it's lighter yet stronger than the original horrible ERW exhaust tubing TVR use, only downside is it's quite a bit more expensive.
The chassis repair itself was both outriggers and all rotted body plates replaced (as in the whole tube cut out and new welded back in with all welds dressed back to make it look like it's never been repaired) and cost was about 400 pounds i think including the rollcage tubing. That doesnt include the time to take the body off and refit though, probably doable in about 10 hours total. Sanblasting and powder coating adds maybe 250-300 pounds to the bill too if you want it all pretty
To do the griff like this start to finish is probably a 1500 pound job with all the bits and pieces so you'd expect a cerbera to be maybe 2000 pounds for a similar treatment with similar rot? Obviously you'll save a packet if you do it yourself and earn mucho repsecto in the cerbera community 
The cerbera body is trickier to get off than the griff/chim cars but the basic technique is the same.
griff pic:
The chassis repair itself was both outriggers and all rotted body plates replaced (as in the whole tube cut out and new welded back in with all welds dressed back to make it look like it's never been repaired) and cost was about 400 pounds i think including the rollcage tubing. That doesnt include the time to take the body off and refit though, probably doable in about 10 hours total. Sanblasting and powder coating adds maybe 250-300 pounds to the bill too if you want it all pretty
To do the griff like this start to finish is probably a 1500 pound job with all the bits and pieces so you'd expect a cerbera to be maybe 2000 pounds for a similar treatment with similar rot? Obviously you'll save a packet if you do it yourself and earn mucho repsecto in the cerbera community The cerbera body is trickier to get off than the griff/chim cars but the basic technique is the same.
griff pic:
Thanks to eveyone for all the help on this post. I feel I have the confidence to proceed and know where to come if I get stuck.
I'm not keen to powder coat alone because I feel I'll be back to square one. In an ideal world I would coat the inside bores of the tubes with wax and the outside with 1) a sacrificial coat (zinc?) 2) hard coat (epoxy ?) and soft coat (rubberised paint?). Not sure about the last point, it might catch fire! Are complaint paints available?
Finally, what do I do with all the bare metal holes and bores for bolts, bushes, pins etc, mask them and leave them bare metal or coat them and drill/file/ream where necessary. It seems a shame to coat the chassis and then have lots of bare metal spots.
I'm not keen to powder coat alone because I feel I'll be back to square one. In an ideal world I would coat the inside bores of the tubes with wax and the outside with 1) a sacrificial coat (zinc?) 2) hard coat (epoxy ?) and soft coat (rubberised paint?). Not sure about the last point, it might catch fire! Are complaint paints available?
Finally, what do I do with all the bare metal holes and bores for bolts, bushes, pins etc, mask them and leave them bare metal or coat them and drill/file/ream where necessary. It seems a shame to coat the chassis and then have lots of bare metal spots.
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