Naming & Shaming - views
Discussion
Ok, so probably a can of worms and all that, and hopefully Big Al will not shut this down straight away as it's only views, but...
Why is it, that if a garage/indi/dealership does a crap job, or takes ages, or causes problems etc etc, we are not allowed to name them?
If they knew that their company might appear on different sites, then they may be a bit more inclined to offer the 'A1' service that we all expect.
It seems that some places can fleece some poor bugger and then wait 'til the next poor sod comes along.
If all garages etc did their best, then we may see a few more posts/topics on here reading 'so and so excellent service - highly recommended'.
It's the old scenario of do a good job and hope someone recommends you and do a poor job and carry on regardless, knowing that you won't be named on sites like this.
Just wondered?
MB
Why is it, that if a garage/indi/dealership does a crap job, or takes ages, or causes problems etc etc, we are not allowed to name them?
If they knew that their company might appear on different sites, then they may be a bit more inclined to offer the 'A1' service that we all expect.
It seems that some places can fleece some poor bugger and then wait 'til the next poor sod comes along.
If all garages etc did their best, then we may see a few more posts/topics on here reading 'so and so excellent service - highly recommended'.
It's the old scenario of do a good job and hope someone recommends you and do a poor job and carry on regardless, knowing that you won't be named on sites like this.
Just wondered?
MB
There are ways you can get the right information across. Answer questions with questions, these are open to interpretation and thus cannot be challenged as deliberatly vindictive claims.
Plus Pistonheads doesnt have the time nor the resources to chase up every story and claim. So its best to stay neutral in the public eye as it doesnt cost you a penny more than it should providing a service to end users who are 'non paying' users of the forums...
On another note, there are a few sites out there where you can publish your claims
Another way is to start your own website! Pass the link around, keeps PH out of it, and its all on your head, a garage who has 'genuinly' screwed you over is less likely to challenge you as you have PROOF, than an independant transporter of your message who can be liable for 'ruining' said garages business directly.
Its even worse in the states! sometimes even saying good things can be seen as anti-competitive!
Plus Pistonheads doesnt have the time nor the resources to chase up every story and claim. So its best to stay neutral in the public eye as it doesnt cost you a penny more than it should providing a service to end users who are 'non paying' users of the forums...
On another note, there are a few sites out there where you can publish your claims
Another way is to start your own website! Pass the link around, keeps PH out of it, and its all on your head, a garage who has 'genuinly' screwed you over is less likely to challenge you as you have PROOF, than an independant transporter of your message who can be liable for 'ruining' said garages business directly.
Its even worse in the states! sometimes even saying good things can be seen as anti-competitive!
The problem with this is that some customer's only see their point of view and will not take into consideration the issues surrounding the delay or problem.
My father who is in the trade and a very honest chap doing an excellent job for reasonable money. Has lots of very good and regular customers who know and trust him and when there is a problem they believe him without hesitation. The problem occurs when a new customer who gets let down or thinks he is being ripped off or car fails shortly afterwards will always blame the garage for whatever, but the problem can be genuine but with no past experiance to base there frustration on they automatically think garage is no good.
Car's are funny things, espeically TVR's and many jobs just don't go to plan and disturbing something trying to remove or repair something else can cause running issues after the car leaves the garage. I've done this but have nobody to blame but myself for causing another issue after repairing one!
If your car is damaged in anyway by the garage or you are clearly being over charged then these matters need to be addressed and the garage given chance to apologise and make amends or, run and hide, then you'll know for sure if a good garage or bad garage!
It's all too easy to jump to conclusions, I've done it, but on reflection it could have been an honest mistake or accident but without discussion with garage you'll never know and giving them the opertunity to make things right is always the way to go.
My father who is in the trade and a very honest chap doing an excellent job for reasonable money. Has lots of very good and regular customers who know and trust him and when there is a problem they believe him without hesitation. The problem occurs when a new customer who gets let down or thinks he is being ripped off or car fails shortly afterwards will always blame the garage for whatever, but the problem can be genuine but with no past experiance to base there frustration on they automatically think garage is no good.
Car's are funny things, espeically TVR's and many jobs just don't go to plan and disturbing something trying to remove or repair something else can cause running issues after the car leaves the garage. I've done this but have nobody to blame but myself for causing another issue after repairing one!
If your car is damaged in anyway by the garage or you are clearly being over charged then these matters need to be addressed and the garage given chance to apologise and make amends or, run and hide, then you'll know for sure if a good garage or bad garage!
It's all too easy to jump to conclusions, I've done it, but on reflection it could have been an honest mistake or accident but without discussion with garage you'll never know and giving them the opertunity to make things right is always the way to go.
Surely we could approach this from the other angle = a register or similar of known garages / independents etc where you can only post a positive 'mark' if you've received good service - no dialogue req'd. this would then be a reference point that people can refer to if they want to use someone well respected on here, and in itself a low number of positives for a particular company will put the message across, but is not naming & shaming because all contributions are positives only? There would be no need to have a scale or anything like that, just a tick or similar & these are then added up? Don't ask me how you could do this technically on here though !!
SI-PEN said:
.....giving them the opertunity to make things right is always the way to go.
That's usually a good idea but when it takes a 1000 mile round trip to take the car back to the garage in order to fix a problem there ignorance has created, it is not always a feasible option open for owners.[/miserablegrumpybastard]
It's an understandable desire and if there was a fair way of doing this in the forums then I'd have implemented it.
I introduced the "No name and shame" rule after getting embroiled in some disputes. I had no idea who was right. All too often the accounts from the dealers made more sense than those from disgruntled customers. I didn't think it fair that a business should have their reputation put into question by a simple post on a forum from someone who may be stretching the truth or leaving out key facts.
I introduced the "No name and shame" rule after getting embroiled in some disputes. I had no idea who was right. All too often the accounts from the dealers made more sense than those from disgruntled customers. I didn't think it fair that a business should have their reputation put into question by a simple post on a forum from someone who may be stretching the truth or leaving out key facts.
PetrolTed said:
It's an understandable desire and if there was a fair way of doing this in the forums then I'd have implemented it.
I introduced the "No name and shame" rule after getting embroiled in some disputes. I had no idea who was right. All too often the accounts from the dealers made more sense than those from disgruntled customers. I didn't think it fair that a business should have their reputation put into question by a simple post on a forum from someone who may be stretching the truth or leaving out key facts.
Ted, you got 'PH Janitor' written under your post count, can I put something there on my user account?I introduced the "No name and shame" rule after getting embroiled in some disputes. I had no idea who was right. All too often the accounts from the dealers made more sense than those from disgruntled customers. I didn't think it fair that a business should have their reputation put into question by a simple post on a forum from someone who may be stretching the truth or leaving out key facts.
cuneus said:
A feedback system similar to ebay would be a major step forward IMHO
I like this idea! but what prevents fake ID's and stuff being created etc to increase/decrease ratings?I think Pistonheads should become a subscription service with a PayPal/VISA account, so that you can only sign up with one account per card or whatever, plus PH makes money, keeps out the kids, and the rest of us can breathe more easily and then the ratings feature would be more reliable?
morebeanz said:
Simple - in many cases, it's a matter of opinion (as far as a website is concerned). You can't offer sufficient proof and it becomes a matter of whose word is accepted. Oh, and nobody sues you for saying nice things about them...
Would it then not be ok to say 'My car is at so and so and they have told me this - is it correct?'You could then get a concensus of opinion and/or take along a knowledgeable fellow PH'er to have a look. If the business is up front, friendly and professional then they will be happy to answer your questions and let you have a nose at their findings. I think that this is all part of the 'A1 servive' and if they get funny or shirty then they are not the type of people that we want to do business with.
After all, they do get a fair old amount of wonga for all our woes.
MB
The system seems to work pretty well as it is.
If someone wants feedback on a supplier they can ask for it on here. You can tell as much from what people don't say as from what they do. Customers with particularly low opinions can, if they choose, use PM to share their experience with the enquirer.
If someone wants feedback on a supplier they can ask for it on here. You can tell as much from what people don't say as from what they do. Customers with particularly low opinions can, if they choose, use PM to share their experience with the enquirer.
Devil's Advocate said:
The system seems to work pretty well as it is.
If someone wants feedback on a supplier they can ask for it on here. You can tell as much from what people don't say as from what they do. Customers with particularly low opinions can, if they choose, use PM to share their experience with the enquirer.
Disagree for the very reasons that have been stated - you only get one side of the storyIf someone wants feedback on a supplier they can ask for it on here. You can tell as much from what people don't say as from what they do. Customers with particularly low opinions can, if they choose, use PM to share their experience with the enquirer.
Marian said:
PetrolTed said:
It's an understandable desire and if there was a fair way of doing this in the forums then I'd have implemented it.
I think if you got the poster to post their full name after complaining about a service given this would take the onus away from yourselves.Also, different dealers/garages spend differing amounts of time online. I'm sure most of us would rather dealers spend time working on cars rather than monitoring forums.
This isn't a court room, we can't offer a fair hearing this environment. Disputes shouldn't be played out in public.
cuneus said:
Devil's Advocate said:
The system seems to work pretty well as it is.
If someone wants feedback on a supplier they can ask for it on here. You can tell as much from what people don't say as from what they do. Customers with particularly low opinions can, if they choose, use PM to share their experience with the enquirer.
Disagree for the very reasons that have been stated - you only get one side of the storyIf someone wants feedback on a supplier they can ask for it on here. You can tell as much from what people don't say as from what they do. Customers with particularly low opinions can, if they choose, use PM to share their experience with the enquirer.
PetrolTed said:
Marian said:
PetrolTed said:
It's an understandable desire and if there was a fair way of doing this in the forums then I'd have implemented it.
I think if you got the poster to post their full name after complaining about a service given this would take the onus away from yourselves.PetrolTed said:
All too often people aren't prepared to reveal their identity unfortunately which makes it all the more infuriating for those that are being criticised.
If they aren't willing to post their real name then I would suggest they shouldn't be allowed to "diss" a service given, equally though if they are willing to reveal who they are this allows the company providing the service a right to reply and probably in most cases be advantageous to them as opposed to seeing snide sideswipes at them i.e "pm me for details etc"Hope I'm not speaking out of turn as a relative newbie
But what if its not a personal issue. What if its just plain facts you want the public to know? surely you cant be threatened if its a factual point that is already known in the public domain, but you are merely collating it into a post? does that constitute legal threats?
Say, for example, company x advertises xyz, but then repeatedly dont achieve xyz, surely we can comment on that? Like TVR advertised 420bhp for the cerbera 4.5, and everyone knows they dont come out anywhere near that power output in stock form from the production line. TVR never threatened legal action, so how come smaller companies can threaten and voices drowned...
I think there should be a PayPal legal fund account where all users can donate money now and again, as and when, so in such instances there are MORE than enough funds to challenge any threat of legal action, I would definitely throw a few bob in that account! Its for the better of the community.
Honest service and quality of work and getting what you payed for is all part and parcel and many businesses use these forums as a hunting ground for business so I believe its only fair they accept the possibility of people standing up and voicing their concerns. Otherwise they should just leave PH and look for business elsewhere.
Say, for example, company x advertises xyz, but then repeatedly dont achieve xyz, surely we can comment on that? Like TVR advertised 420bhp for the cerbera 4.5, and everyone knows they dont come out anywhere near that power output in stock form from the production line. TVR never threatened legal action, so how come smaller companies can threaten and voices drowned...
I think there should be a PayPal legal fund account where all users can donate money now and again, as and when, so in such instances there are MORE than enough funds to challenge any threat of legal action, I would definitely throw a few bob in that account! Its for the better of the community.
Honest service and quality of work and getting what you payed for is all part and parcel and many businesses use these forums as a hunting ground for business so I believe its only fair they accept the possibility of people standing up and voicing their concerns. Otherwise they should just leave PH and look for business elsewhere.
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