Flames

[C2HYM]

I knew the Cerbs were prone to popping the odd flame, but I've never actually seen a decent picture.

On our ring trip, almost everyone in the convoy would comment on how I'd blast past, lift off and two massive yellow flames would come out the back.

Unfortionatly, no bugger got any pics Does anyone have any so I can see how cool it must look, childish I know, but I've never had a car that pops flames before

[touching cloth]

Same as you, plenty of confirmed flame action from my arse but rarely get to see the evidence; only visual I have of mine is on the Austec RR day, vid clip here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOGyn2Q_ayo

Look at about 15/16 secs but don't blink as it's a bit of a tiddler.

The only static shot I have seen is BossCerb (captured by Focused) in a tunnel.

[ridds]

touching cloth said:

Same as you, plenty of confirmed flame action from my arse but rarely get to see the evidence; only visual I have of mine is on the Austec RR day, vid clip here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOGyn2Q_ayo

Look at about 15/16 secs but don't blink as it's a bit of a tiddler.

The only static shot I have seen is BossCerb (captured by Focused) in a tunnel.

That is a bloody hard shot to get that. Capturing flames in photos is very difficult. A friend of mine spends a fair amount of his time at race tracks trying to get them!

[carl_w]

Cool. I always thought it did that but had no hard evidence (can't even see it in the mirror at night). PS: that picture looks photoshopped

Anyway, my new steed has arrived. Seems subjectively faster than the Cerb, but I put that down to hair-trigger throttle response and the fact I've been driving the wife's diesel for the last three months. You'll note that it's in the best colour

[BCA]

That is a really dark blue, I'll grant you that...

I reckon you'd find a Cerb is still a fair bit quicker im afraid - but thats nothing to be ashamed of. We beat an M3 by 1 second over the 1/4mile two years ago (standard 4.5) without being able to get 3rd gear... Z4M shouldnt be much quicker than the M3, but sure as hell looks the part.

[carl_w]

BCA said:

I reckon you'd find a Cerb is still a fair bit quicker im afraid

I'm sure it is. Similar power, Beemer weighs at least another 300 kg. I reckon it might not be so cut 'n' dried at the top end though, bearing in mind a Cerb has never seen the inside of a wind tunnel (well, certainly not prior to manufacture).

[BCA]

carl_w said:

BCA said:

I reckon you'd find a Cerb is still a fair bit quicker im afraid

I'm sure it is. Similar power, Beemer weighs at least another 300 kg. I reckon it might not be so cut 'n' dried at the top end though, bearing in mind a Cerb has never seen the inside of a wind tunnel (well, certainly not prior to manufacture).

TVRs wind tunnel is Bristol Avenue... I think the Tuscans and Cerbs arent too bad for drag - but this is far more of a happy accident than anything calculated.

[carl_w]

I'm not so sure. Once they got near a wind tunnel they started making the back ends very high (Tamora, T350, Saggy). Cerbs and Tuscans look aerodynamic, but I suspect they aren't. Nor are first-gen Jaguar XK8s, although they look really slippery. With a high (Kamm) tail, you keep the laminar airflow but lose the surface drag from extended bodywork.

[BCA]

carl_w said:

I'm not so sure. Once they got near a wind tunnel they started making the back ends very high (Tamora, T350, Saggy). Cerbs and Tuscans look aerodynamic, but I suspect they aren't. Nor are first-gen Jaguar XK8s, although they look really slippery. With a high (Kamm) tail, you keep the laminar airflow but lose the surface drag from extended bodywork.

I'll find out if they've been to a wind tunnel with the 350 onwards shortly, though I suspect they may have done - thier time in there was limited as they missed out on a few things that I think they found out with the Sagaris. What you've said is correct to a certain degree - though I've found kamm tails arent as clear cut as you would imagine, equally the T cars (and Z4M) are all too short, infact the Cerbera and tuscans boot length will help a fair bit in this regard. Im undecided as to certain bits on the Cerbera helping too, I'd like to know what the gap behind the rear window/ahead of the boot does to things for instance. Im pretty sure the Tuscans roof line is also pretty decent for the job too. There is plenty of further scope still with both of them, something I'll look into at a later date when I have some time on my hands.

As simple as it seems, according to one of my aero tutors; one of the best methods for testing aerodynamic drag is to check real world performance by driving/photographing the thing... Silly as it sounds I can think of plenty of Cerbs/Tuscans with approx 350bhp or less managing a REAL 180+mph, whereas I know of a comparably powered T350 that really struggled to get past 171mph - which should give enough of an indication that theres something rather good about the Cerbs and Tuscans.

Im not necessarily saying the way they deal with the air is any good though, certainly the early tuscans were all over the shop in terms of other areas of aerodynamic performance - so much so even TVR felt the need to do something about it! (S models.)

Just as an aside, I am a final year student in car design, specialising in low volume vehicle design with a fair bit of aerodynamics/wind tunnel experience behind me...

Edited by BCA on Friday 7th September 07:39

[Sparky69]

Quote "it might not be so cut and dry at the top end"
Until you hit 150mph and zee germans spoil your party!

[Cyclone1]

carl_w said:

Cool. I always thought it did that but had no hard evidence (can't even see it in the mirror at night). PS: that picture looks photoshopped

Anyway, my new steed has arrived. Seems subjectively faster than the Cerb, but I put that down to hair-trigger throttle response and the fact I've been driving the wife's diesel for the last three months. You'll note that it's in the best colour

Nice motor Carl (followed your post in the BM forum)

The Z4M is a fair bit quicker than the M3 (E46) (not the latest one). The old Z3M Coupe was also a bit quicker than the M3 and the Z4MC has the edge on that. A couple of pretty healthy Z3M Coupes competed at Fighting Torque and the best posted a time of 27.5 secs over the 3/4 mile distance, the average Cerb was doing mid/high 26s with a few of the special ones dipping into the high 25s.............


Jules.

[carl_w]

Sparky69 said:

Quote "it might not be so cut and dry at the top end"
Until you hit 150mph and zee germans spoil your party!

Yes, I'm intending to get that fixed...

[C2HYM]

That looks the business Carl... You'll be pleased to know I've now done 5k miles in the Cerb in the few months I've had it and so far, not a single niggle on for 20k a year if I'm not careful.

I have however just bought this to give its legs a rest over winter, Cecotto E30....my first BMW.

[carl_w]

C2HYM said:

That looks the business Carl... You'll be pleased to know I've now done 5k miles in the Cerb in the few months I've had it and so far, not a single niggle

Blimey, that's probably as much as I did in the whole time I had it

I think that car really is a good'un. Bloody lucky really, I bought it because I liked the colour...

C2HYM said:

However just bought this to give its legs a rest over winter, Cecotto E30....my first BMW.

Nice. I was happy to acquit myself against a Tuscan this afternoon. It was clearly faster, but there wasn't a great deal in it.

Edited by carl_w on Saturday 8th September 21:22

[ridds]

C2HYM said:

That looks the business Carl... You'll be pleased to know I've now done 5k miles in the Cerb in the few months I've had it and so far, not a single niggle on for 20k a year if I'm not careful.

I have however just bought this to give its legs a rest over winter, Cecotto E30....my first BMW.

I love garages that look more like lounges than garages.

Hoovers, carpet, book case side board things. wicked!

[Budaholic]

I have this clip of my old Cerb spitting a couple of flames while stationary.

flames

and another that Caduceus filmed while following me one night.....it's taken me forever to upload it to YouTube....... it's not easy on this poxy slow Cypriot internet connection.

more flames

Bud

Edited by Budaholic on Tuesday 11th September 19:07

[mickk]

Budaholic said:

I have this clip of my old Cerb spitting a couple of flames while stationary.

flames

I have another that Caduceus filmed while following me one night.....I'll try to upload it somewhere....... it's not easy on this poxy slow Cypriot internet connection.

Bud

Hi Bud you bored with all that sun yet?

[Budaholic]

Hiya Mick.... Seriously...... what do you think? I'm actually starting to get a bit of a tan now after 7 months.....

I'm gonna be back in UK early November and I'll try and blag a lift to a couple of meets and see everyone again. Have you been attending the Herts meets?

Bud

[mickk]

Budaholic said:

Hiya Mick.... Seriously...... what do you think? I'm actually starting to get a bit of a tan now after 7 months.....

I'm gonna be back in UK early November and I'll try and blag a lift to a couple of meets and see everyone again. Have you been attending the Herts meets?

Bud

If your back when the Herts meet is on, give us a shout and ill give you a lift up there.

Hows the bruv? is he still gorging himself?

[trackcar]

carl_w said:

I'm not so sure. Once they got near a wind tunnel they started making the back ends very high (Tamora, T350, Saggy). Cerbs and Tuscans look aerodynamic, but I suspect they aren't. Nor are first-gen Jaguar XK8s, although they look really slippery. With a high (Kamm) tail, you keep the laminar airflow but lose the surface drag from extended bodywork.

Even if you get no sepration you still have a base area the size of the kamm tail down to the ground (effectively) so you have to offset this base drag, though what point that is on a TVR body you wouldn't know unless in the wind tunnel. Reattaching the flow to the lower boot on the cerb would be good but would you really want anything interfering with the smooth lines to the back of the boot lid? And how much separation takes place down the rear screen? There's only the small separation trigger of the screen ruber lip surround, well into the boundary layer so not really too much of an issue .. and as long as the rear screen angle isn't too severe there's a fair chance that the base area of a cerb is actually fairly low, and being filled in by a large volume of exhaust gasses too.

Are you sure the high rear ends were wind tunnel derived? and not just an attempt to claw back usefull boot space with short overhangs?