TVR Cerbera vs. Lotus
Discussion
I imagine that a lot of you are saying no competition and I would agree to a point, but my situation is like many people who love TVR’s find themselves.
The famous build quality.
This site and others are awash with horror stories, horror stories that I simply can’t afford.
The facts for me are simple:
I have £25,000 cash to buy the car I have always wanted to which in my case comes from two manufactures Lotus and TVR.
TVR Cerbera post 2002, a TVR T350C 2003+ or a Lotus 2006/07 would all be in my price range.
My only concern is less things will go wrong with a lotus just over a year old than a TVR Cerbera at 5 years old and the bottom line is I can’t afford the massive repair costs that I might face if I got unlucky.
So what do I DO????
Buy a Cerbera enjoy the performance and plunge myself in debt or stick with a safe lotus with reasonable performance and enjoy virtually problem free motoring?????
Advice and suggestions are welcome and will probably influence where my money is spent.
Thanks
The famous build quality.
This site and others are awash with horror stories, horror stories that I simply can’t afford.
The facts for me are simple:
I have £25,000 cash to buy the car I have always wanted to which in my case comes from two manufactures Lotus and TVR.
TVR Cerbera post 2002, a TVR T350C 2003+ or a Lotus 2006/07 would all be in my price range.
My only concern is less things will go wrong with a lotus just over a year old than a TVR Cerbera at 5 years old and the bottom line is I can’t afford the massive repair costs that I might face if I got unlucky.
So what do I DO????
Buy a Cerbera enjoy the performance and plunge myself in debt or stick with a safe lotus with reasonable performance and enjoy virtually problem free motoring?????
Advice and suggestions are welcome and will probably influence where my money is spent.
Thanks
I would buy the lotus. P.S. change your moniker 
Seriously the lotus is a far more hands off car, although not without its foibles.
But I would think two points are relevent here.
The age of a TVR Cerbera says very little about its longevity, so you might want to look a little older but retain a buffer money amount for emergencies.
And that they are two very different types of cars. The lotus is the silk glove and the TVR is a mallet. You need to try both out and let your heart buy the car not your wallet.
P.S. I'm probably talking bo
ocks here as I havn't owned a lotus since the elan+2, but I would say that the advantage TVR always had since that time over a lotus for me is that the TVR was a single vision by a single person. And every lotus since poor old colin chapman died was a comittee based nightmare.
Seriously the lotus is a far more hands off car, although not without its foibles.
But I would think two points are relevent here.
The age of a TVR Cerbera says very little about its longevity, so you might want to look a little older but retain a buffer money amount for emergencies.
And that they are two very different types of cars. The lotus is the silk glove and the TVR is a mallet. You need to try both out and let your heart buy the car not your wallet.
P.S. I'm probably talking bo
ocks here as I havn't owned a lotus since the elan+2, but I would say that the advantage TVR always had since that time over a lotus for me is that the TVR was a single vision by a single person. And every lotus since poor old colin chapman died was a comittee based nightmare. Edited by julian64 on Wednesday 12th December 14:58
PM PHer Gruffy and ask how many engines he's had in his Lotus (and the one he borrowed) 
Why dont you buy a nice Cerb for £20k and leave £5k in the bank for emergencies?
IMO, best thing to do, is go test drive a Lotus (I pressume you mean an Elise?) and a Cerb/TVR before you make any decission
Why dont you buy a nice Cerb for £20k and leave £5k in the bank for emergencies?
IMO, best thing to do, is go test drive a Lotus (I pressume you mean an Elise?) and a Cerb/TVR before you make any decission
As said, Cerbera & Lotus (presumably you're talking elise/exige??) are completely different. I've been out in my mates 135R elise - the cornering is something else, its pretty rapid & sounds good (and the roof comes off) but when he went in my Cerbera he got out laughing saying, 'that is the fastest, loudest, most insane car I've ever been in'.
Personally, the spartan cramped nature of the Lotus isn't really my thing - I prefer the big boot, mad interior, massive engine lairyness. Have you driven either yet?
If you're paranoid about getting a Cerb & it blowing up then you should probably just add 5 or 6 grand to the price of any you see & use that as your budget guide. Remember that you can blow Loti up as well!
Personally, the spartan cramped nature of the Lotus isn't really my thing - I prefer the big boot, mad interior, massive engine lairyness. Have you driven either yet?
If you're paranoid about getting a Cerb & it blowing up then you should probably just add 5 or 6 grand to the price of any you see & use that as your budget guide. Remember that you can blow Loti up as well!
Thanks for all the great advice this is really helping, but I'm no nearer a decision. So far I'm looking at a 50/50 spilt. As of yet I've not had one piece of advice that would convince me either way.
Heart is saying cerb, head (wallet) is telling the Lotus.
I suppose the decision is always going to split,
Heart is saying cerb, head (wallet) is telling the Lotus.
I suppose the decision is always going to split,
Don't rule out the T350 until you have driven one. Make sure you have a warranty to cover the SP6 engine if it blows. Otherwise, they aren't as mad as a Cerby but still great fun (and loud/quick), more modern inside and easier to drive. Plus fantastic value at the moment when compared with a Saggy. If I had enough garage space I'd have a Cerb and a T350.
Having come from a VX220 Turbo (which I chose over the Elise), the only Lotus-type effort in the frame when I bought the Cerbera was an Audi-engined Elise (of which there are getting to be more and more). Whilst I considered reliability likely to be equivelant between the two, it was actually the insurance company that made my life easy in terms of decsion making - £800 for the Cerb, £3k+ for the Lotus.
Bonkers engine swaps aside, a standard Elise can't hold a candle to a Cerbera in terms of road-based thrills. Perhaps if the car was going to do 90% of its miles on track, you could argue that the precision of the Lotus, once fully learned, could be ultimately more rewarding. I, however, say boocks to that. Give me a thundering V8 with 400 horses, and I'll figure out the details later.
Bonkers engine swaps aside, a standard Elise can't hold a candle to a Cerbera in terms of road-based thrills. Perhaps if the car was going to do 90% of its miles on track, you could argue that the precision of the Lotus, once fully learned, could be ultimately more rewarding. I, however, say bo
ocks to that. Give me a thundering V8 with 400 horses, and I'll figure out the details later.I've got a 4.2 cerb tracked it quite a bit, and they are bonkers had a day in an exige at Oulton park and yes they handle way better but i did find myself wanting more power after been used to a cerb. Have a look at www.lambogenie.co.uk its run by a mate of mine, Russ, they are doing some cracking deals over christmas for hiring elises, get one for a few days see how you like it, i did find them a bit cramped.
P.S. if you want a bonkers Exige ask russ about his exige race car, supercharged type r engine with over 400 horses.
P.S. if you want a bonkers Exige ask russ about his exige race car, supercharged type r engine with over 400 horses.
Edited by Nick Cooper on Wednesday 12th December 17:06
blackpoolrocket said:
Thanks for all the great advice this is really helping, but I'm no nearer a decision. So far I'm looking at a 50/50 spilt. As of yet I've not had one piece of advice that would convince me either way.
Heart is saying cerb, head (wallet) is telling the Lotus.
I suppose the decision is always going to split,
Heart vs Wallet ? If you go the wallet route you will awlays be dissapointed. Cars like this are nothing to do with transport, it's about passion - ie the Heart.Heart is saying cerb, head (wallet) is telling the Lotus.
I suppose the decision is always going to split,
Test drive both then do what your heart says, and if your heart still tells you to get a Cerb, but Mr. Wallet is a bit scared, there are plenty of good, sorted, looked after Cerbs rounf the £15k mark, that leaves you with £10k as a 'just in case' reserve', and the chances are you won't use it. And your £15k Cerb will always look like a £50k supercar
I'll throw my two penn'orth in here as well.
I'm (hopefully) in the process of moving from a VX220 2.2 to a Cerbera. When I was originally shopping for the VX I was also looking at Lotus Elise S2s. The conclusion that I came to was that the VX220 is head and shoulders above the Elises for reliability. Example in hand - one of the members of www.VX220.org.uk
He had a ding in his VX and his claims management company was nice enough to arrange him a 2006 Elise. Which promptly broke down: http://www.vx220.org.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic...
And then again 2 days later: http://www.vx220.org.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic...
In comparison I'd suggest that a slightly older VX220 is far more reliable than even a brand new Lotus. That's why I went for a VX220 in the end.
Why am I now hoping to change to a Cerbera? I recently sold my MONSTROUSLY thirsty Skyline GT-R and wanted something fast, simple, fun and reliable to use on a daily basis as a nice change from the Skyline. The VX ticked all the boxes.
But I thirst for the big engine rumble that the TVRs have. Even the reliability, economics and roof-off fun of the VX don't stand up against the TVR appeal. Shop around carefully and you'll get a good Cerbera, but whether good or bad they'll all cost a fair whack to run compared to the VX or an Elise. Servicing is more frequent, more expensive and there's more to need work on or to go wrong than on the VX / Elise.
I'd always suggest that anyone considering an Elise should seriously consider a VX instead, and in your case you should also consider HOW you want to drive it. The VX / Elise can be driven HARD on any kind of road as razor sharp handling and fantastic brakes mean you can always recover an over-enthusiastic moment. The TVR, as a road car (IMHO) is a straight line 'point-and-squirt'. It takes alot more concentration to drive on the roads as it's easier to overcook it and get your head bitten off by the car than the VX / Elise. But the TVR engine note, character and style is, in my humble opinion, unbeatable. The VX / Elise feels more like a finely honed surgical instrument - a rapier, if we're using sword analogies. The TVR is definitely the broadsword. It has the presence, the power but it's not something that you can just whip around left, right and centre, unlike the VX / Elise.
So as well as letting your heart make the decision, consider how you like to drive. There's nothing worse than having a fantastic car that you just don't get the most out of because it's characteristics doesn't suit your driving style.
I have a nice VX for sale, in case your interested hehehe.... (hides behind sofa after shameless plug)
Jim
I'm (hopefully) in the process of moving from a VX220 2.2 to a Cerbera. When I was originally shopping for the VX I was also looking at Lotus Elise S2s. The conclusion that I came to was that the VX220 is head and shoulders above the Elises for reliability. Example in hand - one of the members of www.VX220.org.uk
He had a ding in his VX and his claims management company was nice enough to arrange him a 2006 Elise. Which promptly broke down: http://www.vx220.org.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic...
And then again 2 days later: http://www.vx220.org.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic...
In comparison I'd suggest that a slightly older VX220 is far more reliable than even a brand new Lotus. That's why I went for a VX220 in the end.
Why am I now hoping to change to a Cerbera? I recently sold my MONSTROUSLY thirsty Skyline GT-R and wanted something fast, simple, fun and reliable to use on a daily basis as a nice change from the Skyline. The VX ticked all the boxes.
But I thirst for the big engine rumble that the TVRs have. Even the reliability, economics and roof-off fun of the VX don't stand up against the TVR appeal. Shop around carefully and you'll get a good Cerbera, but whether good or bad they'll all cost a fair whack to run compared to the VX or an Elise. Servicing is more frequent, more expensive and there's more to need work on or to go wrong than on the VX / Elise.
I'd always suggest that anyone considering an Elise should seriously consider a VX instead, and in your case you should also consider HOW you want to drive it. The VX / Elise can be driven HARD on any kind of road as razor sharp handling and fantastic brakes mean you can always recover an over-enthusiastic moment. The TVR, as a road car (IMHO) is a straight line 'point-and-squirt'. It takes alot more concentration to drive on the roads as it's easier to overcook it and get your head bitten off by the car than the VX / Elise. But the TVR engine note, character and style is, in my humble opinion, unbeatable. The VX / Elise feels more like a finely honed surgical instrument - a rapier, if we're using sword analogies. The TVR is definitely the broadsword. It has the presence, the power but it's not something that you can just whip around left, right and centre, unlike the VX / Elise.
So as well as letting your heart make the decision, consider how you like to drive. There's nothing worse than having a fantastic car that you just don't get the most out of because it's characteristics doesn't suit your driving style.
I have a nice VX for sale, in case your interested hehehe.... (hides behind sofa after shameless plug)
Jim
Jim27 said:
I'll throw my two penn'orth in here as well.
I'm (hopefully) in the process of moving from a VX220 2.2 to a Cerbera. When I was originally shopping for the VX I was also looking at Lotus Elise S2s. The conclusion that I came to was that the VX220 is head and shoulders above the Elises for reliability. Example in hand - one of the members of www.VX220.org.uk
He had a ding in his VX and his claims management company was nice enough to arrange him a 2006 Elise. Which promptly broke down: http://www.vx220.org.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic...
And then again 2 days later: http://www.vx220.org.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic...
In comparison I'd suggest that a slightly older VX220 is far more reliable than even a brand new Lotus. That's why I went for a VX220 in the end.
Why am I now hoping to change to a Cerbera? I recently sold my MONSTROUSLY thirsty Skyline GT-R and wanted something fast, simple, fun and reliable to use on a daily basis as a nice change from the Skyline. The VX ticked all the boxes.
But I thirst for the big engine rumble that the TVRs have. Even the reliability, economics and roof-off fun of the VX don't stand up against the TVR appeal. Shop around carefully and you'll get a good Cerbera, but whether good or bad they'll all cost a fair whack to run compared to the VX or an Elise. Servicing is more frequent, more expensive and there's more to need work on or to go wrong than on the VX / Elise.
I'd always suggest that anyone considering an Elise should seriously consider a VX instead, and in your case you should also consider HOW you want to drive it. The VX / Elise can be driven HARD on any kind of road as razor sharp handling and fantastic brakes mean you can always recover an over-enthusiastic moment. The TVR, as a road car (IMHO) is a straight line 'point-and-squirt'. It takes alot more concentration to drive on the roads as it's easier to overcook it and get your head bitten off by the car than the VX / Elise. But the TVR engine note, character and style is, in my humble opinion, unbeatable. The VX / Elise feels more like a finely honed surgical instrument - a rapier, if we're using sword analogies. The TVR is definitely the broadsword. It has the presence, the power but it's not something that you can just whip around left, right and centre, unlike the VX / Elise.
So as well as letting your heart make the decision, consider how you like to drive. There's nothing worse than having a fantastic car that you just don't get the most out of because it's characteristics doesn't suit your driving style.
I have a nice VX for sale, in case your interested hehehe.... (hides behind sofa after shameless plug)
Jim
Great Post I'm (hopefully) in the process of moving from a VX220 2.2 to a Cerbera. When I was originally shopping for the VX I was also looking at Lotus Elise S2s. The conclusion that I came to was that the VX220 is head and shoulders above the Elises for reliability. Example in hand - one of the members of www.VX220.org.uk
He had a ding in his VX and his claims management company was nice enough to arrange him a 2006 Elise. Which promptly broke down: http://www.vx220.org.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic...
And then again 2 days later: http://www.vx220.org.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic...
In comparison I'd suggest that a slightly older VX220 is far more reliable than even a brand new Lotus. That's why I went for a VX220 in the end.
Why am I now hoping to change to a Cerbera? I recently sold my MONSTROUSLY thirsty Skyline GT-R and wanted something fast, simple, fun and reliable to use on a daily basis as a nice change from the Skyline. The VX ticked all the boxes.
But I thirst for the big engine rumble that the TVRs have. Even the reliability, economics and roof-off fun of the VX don't stand up against the TVR appeal. Shop around carefully and you'll get a good Cerbera, but whether good or bad they'll all cost a fair whack to run compared to the VX or an Elise. Servicing is more frequent, more expensive and there's more to need work on or to go wrong than on the VX / Elise.
I'd always suggest that anyone considering an Elise should seriously consider a VX instead, and in your case you should also consider HOW you want to drive it. The VX / Elise can be driven HARD on any kind of road as razor sharp handling and fantastic brakes mean you can always recover an over-enthusiastic moment. The TVR, as a road car (IMHO) is a straight line 'point-and-squirt'. It takes alot more concentration to drive on the roads as it's easier to overcook it and get your head bitten off by the car than the VX / Elise. But the TVR engine note, character and style is, in my humble opinion, unbeatable. The VX / Elise feels more like a finely honed surgical instrument - a rapier, if we're using sword analogies. The TVR is definitely the broadsword. It has the presence, the power but it's not something that you can just whip around left, right and centre, unlike the VX / Elise.
So as well as letting your heart make the decision, consider how you like to drive. There's nothing worse than having a fantastic car that you just don't get the most out of because it's characteristics doesn't suit your driving style.
I have a nice VX for sale, in case your interested hehehe.... (hides behind sofa after shameless plug)
Jim
FUBAR said:
Why dont you buy a nice Cerb for £20k and leave £5k in the bank for emergencies?
You'll get a good 4.5 Lightweight for £20k.
But don't write off a T350 either. My mate chopped in his 111S for a T350 and hasn't looked back. Although not quite as fast as the Cerb, it's still bloody quick, drives smooth, sounds good, and handles well.
I drove his 111S on a few occasions and it doesn't compare to my Cerb. Apart from the obvious reduction in power - I could keep my Cerb in 3rd most of the time and still keep up with it - the brakes felt very poor in comparison. You can scrub off large speeds in the Cerb over a short distance. Doing the same in the 111S scared me! And there was nothing wrong with the brakes either. As far as handling is concerned, I would even go as far as to say that my Cerb - now on Ohlins - wouldn't be far off in the handling stakes.
As many have said, test drive all examples - and multiple ones of each as no 2 cars are alike - even more so for the Tivs.
The other thing I'd add, which I kind of alluded to in my first post, is that a car that delivers its thrills from raw power will deliver more thrills more often in road driving. In the VX, once over the initial excitement of the newness of it, the big kicks would come from stringing a series of challenging corners together on a sinuous stretch of b-road. This did however, at times lead to driving which was borderline appropriate for the public road, as revelling in high cornering speeds (the VX's ace) is probably not the best way to keep your no-claims bonus intact.
On the other hand, the Cerb is already tickling your synapses before you've even got it out of the garage. Drive on, and long before you reach the kind of roads you'd need to blow your frock up in the VX, you've already trundled through town, burbling menacingly, felling utterly illicit, and eliciting looks of admiration and disapproval in equal measure from passers by. Onto the dual-carriageway, and you've got the Cerb's ace immediately on tap - and it's ringing your bell without the same degree of risk necessary in a VX/Elise (assuming you keep your eyes peeled for Gatsos etc!). On a single carriageway a-road, still on you way to your favourite b-road, slow moving traffic which you may have to just sit behind for a tedious eternity can more frequently be quickly dispatched (I'm not saying that the VX is a slow car, but more overtaking opportunities present themselves with 400bhp vs 200). You may just find that by the time you've got to the start of your favourite piece of blacktop, you're already satiated
On the other hand, the Cerb is already tickling your synapses before you've even got it out of the garage. Drive on, and long before you reach the kind of roads you'd need to blow your frock up in the VX, you've already trundled through town, burbling menacingly, felling utterly illicit, and eliciting looks of admiration and disapproval in equal measure from passers by. Onto the dual-carriageway, and you've got the Cerb's ace immediately on tap - and it's ringing your bell without the same degree of risk necessary in a VX/Elise (assuming you keep your eyes peeled for Gatsos etc!). On a single carriageway a-road, still on you way to your favourite b-road, slow moving traffic which you may have to just sit behind for a tedious eternity can more frequently be quickly dispatched (I'm not saying that the VX is a slow car, but more overtaking opportunities present themselves with 400bhp vs 200). You may just find that by the time you've got to the start of your favourite piece of blacktop, you're already satiated
Speaking from Experience:-
Cerb ownership:- Flawless with warm, intelligent service.
Esprit Turbo ownership:- Nightmarishly expensive and utterly crap levels of service.
But it'll all depend on the individual vehicle so go with your heart and best of luck !
Cerb ownership:- Flawless with warm, intelligent service.
Esprit Turbo ownership:- Nightmarishly expensive and utterly crap levels of service.
But it'll all depend on the individual vehicle so go with your heart and best of luck !
Edited by Mr.Cerbera on Thursday 13th December 08:48
I'd agree with Nefarious a bit on this one.
The Lotus would be great around here, there are loads of windy country lanes to hoon around.... except there are also loads of walkers, cyclists and horse riders.
Many times I have rounded a corner to find a family of cyclists spread all accross the lane, or a pile of horse shit and a couple of twelve year olds looking nervous astride two prime french steaks, or a couple of oldies clad in packamacs and armed with walking staffs huddled against the hedge.
This means that you have to take it easy around the corners. I really don't want to kill anybody, or end up in upside down after swerving to avoid a slow moving road user.
However, the cerb makes me feel special just by starting it up. Infact, just typing this, thinking about the sound of that nervous, manic tick over makes me feel like I've downed a gallon of red bull.
Even edging out of the close at 7:30am, keeping the revs low so that I don't upset the neighbours, makes me feel dangerous, like someone trying to sneak a stolen tank through an eastern european border patrol.
Then, you get to the main road and put your foot down... bliss
The Lotus would be great around here, there are loads of windy country lanes to hoon around.... except there are also loads of walkers, cyclists and horse riders.
Many times I have rounded a corner to find a family of cyclists spread all accross the lane, or a pile of horse shit and a couple of twelve year olds looking nervous astride two prime french steaks, or a couple of oldies clad in packamacs and armed with walking staffs huddled against the hedge.
This means that you have to take it easy around the corners. I really don't want to kill anybody, or end up in upside down after swerving to avoid a slow moving road user.
However, the cerb makes me feel special just by starting it up. Infact, just typing this, thinking about the sound of that nervous, manic tick over makes me feel like I've downed a gallon of red bull.
Even edging out of the close at 7:30am, keeping the revs low so that I don't upset the neighbours, makes me feel dangerous, like someone trying to sneak a stolen tank through an eastern european border patrol.
Then, you get to the main road and put your foot down... bliss
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