Discussion
Looking at the classifieds, I spotted this:
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/406755.htm
... and wondered whether there are enough parts available to build a brand new Cerb.
I know one of you guys sells a refurbed chassis but if you were going to build a brand new Cerb you'd have to opt for the LS engine - I doubt an AJP would pass SVA on its emissions. And if you opted for the LS, you'd be better off with a pre-refurbed chassis as you'll no doubt need to change it a little from the standard design to accommodate the engine and 6-speed box.
So, what else can you buy new to facillitate a new build? You can get those cool LCD dash panels, SP does the new wheels, upgraded brakes are available, Emerald will sort out the ECU... so what else?
Where could you get an interior? I know some carbon fibre parts are available (I wouldn't be able to resist) but what about the remaining leather bits? Would you need the headlining too? The radiator would be easy (it's only a Range Rover type and ali versions already exist). What about diff? Which one?
Other things I reckon might be challenging to find include uprights, fuel tank (although that would be easy to make), exhaust would need to be custom made (although not terribly tricky I am told)... what else?
And would you want to use original components or something new and different. I've already decided I'd go for an LCD dash panel but what about windscreen wiper mechanism - the original one is a right a PITA to keep alive. What about the indicator stalk? I'd much prefer a mechanical one. Would you keep or lose the steering wheel controls?
I am currently without a weekend car and I've not decided what to buy next. Seeing that shell for sale has really primed my imagination.
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/406755.htm
... and wondered whether there are enough parts available to build a brand new Cerb.
I know one of you guys sells a refurbed chassis but if you were going to build a brand new Cerb you'd have to opt for the LS engine - I doubt an AJP would pass SVA on its emissions. And if you opted for the LS, you'd be better off with a pre-refurbed chassis as you'll no doubt need to change it a little from the standard design to accommodate the engine and 6-speed box.
So, what else can you buy new to facillitate a new build? You can get those cool LCD dash panels, SP does the new wheels, upgraded brakes are available, Emerald will sort out the ECU... so what else?
Where could you get an interior? I know some carbon fibre parts are available (I wouldn't be able to resist) but what about the remaining leather bits? Would you need the headlining too? The radiator would be easy (it's only a Range Rover type and ali versions already exist). What about diff? Which one?
Other things I reckon might be challenging to find include uprights, fuel tank (although that would be easy to make), exhaust would need to be custom made (although not terribly tricky I am told)... what else?
And would you want to use original components or something new and different. I've already decided I'd go for an LCD dash panel but what about windscreen wiper mechanism - the original one is a right a PITA to keep alive. What about the indicator stalk? I'd much prefer a mechanical one. Would you keep or lose the steering wheel controls?
I am currently without a weekend car and I've not decided what to buy next. Seeing that shell for sale has really primed my imagination.
So no comments other than whether it constitutes a TVR or nor? 
Is Brummie's LS Cerb no longer a Cerb? To my sensibilities it is more "Cerb" than a normal one. Madder, louder, more aggressive.
Come on spannering folk... could you build a Cerb without having to buy an old/crashed one first?
Is Brummie's LS Cerb no longer a Cerb? To my sensibilities it is more "Cerb" than a normal one. Madder, louder, more aggressive.
Come on spannering folk... could you build a Cerb without having to buy an old/crashed one first?
G1ABB said:
Be very careful about badging anthing TVR that isn't. They still exist you know and lawyers make lots of money from this kind of stuff.
cheers
Graham
WHO GIVES A fcheers
Graham
k ABOUT THE BADGING? I'm trying to establish whether... oh forget it.Loz, It's definitely on my list of possibilities for next year's project.
Mars said:
G1ABB said:
Be very careful about badging anthing TVR that isn't. They still exist you know and lawyers make lots of money from this kind of stuff.
cheers
Graham
WHO GIVES A fcheers
Graham
k ABOUT THE BADGING? I'm trying to establish whether... oh forget it.Loz, It's definitely on my list of possibilities for next year's project.
Anyone can make a kit car, it seems you are either in the wrong forum or you want to build a replica TVR in which case a basic consideration should be the legal framework in which you intend to operate.
Unless your one of these all talk and no action types?
Graham
PS I do not appreciate being insulted and never usually do it to anyone else!
G1ABB said:
No need to be rude! It was intended to be useful advice. Working in commercial finance I deal with this sort of stuff all the time and know what I'm talking about thank you very much!!!!
Anyone can make a kit car, it seems you are either in the wrong forum or you want to build a replica TVR in which case a basic consideration should be the legal framework in which you intend to operate.
Unless your one of these all talk and no action types?
Graham
PS I do not appreciate being insulted and never usually do it to anyone else!
You must be a bit sensitive because I didn't insult you. I expressed my exasperation upon receiving an answer to a question I didn't ask... received it several times. Yours even came in after I'd answered it once previously.Anyone can make a kit car, it seems you are either in the wrong forum or you want to build a replica TVR in which case a basic consideration should be the legal framework in which you intend to operate.
Unless your one of these all talk and no action types?
Graham
PS I do not appreciate being insulted and never usually do it to anyone else!
And what on earth do you mean by your middle paragraph? Why am I in the wrong forum if I want to ask a Q about Cerbs?
Sounds like a great project. I would probably ignore any of the naysayer, especially those who sound like lawyers. Never had any time for lawyers 
On a practical note I think you'd only have trouble with the AJP engine though.
Currently if you build a car from new or old parts you have to take it in for an SVA. The age of the car is dictated by a small calculation based on the majority of its bits. In other words if you build a car out of 1960's bits it gets a 1960's bits age plate.
However I believe that in april next year the SVA changes to an IVA. One of the changes thought to be being introduced is that the a car built of 1960's bits would be aged to the build date not the bits date.
What this means in a very tidy legal fashion is that the loophole for getting a car on the road with poor emissions is effectively closed. The AJP you put in a kit car after April 1st next year would have to meet euro emission standards or you couldn't use it that rules out the AJP unless trackcar or such can actually get the AJP to perform through a conventional MOT rather than the TVR graunched one.
My advice to you is not to go ahead with the build you intend, but buy a knackered Cerb purely for its age legality and then refurbish, revamp and put whatever AJP you like in it without needed to get screwed by the IVA.
Hope the drivel makes sense and is a bit more helpful than the don't use the logo stuff.
I wonder what TVR would think of the fact that my old TVR badge is currently sitting on the front of my lawnmower?
On a practical note I think you'd only have trouble with the AJP engine though.
Currently if you build a car from new or old parts you have to take it in for an SVA. The age of the car is dictated by a small calculation based on the majority of its bits. In other words if you build a car out of 1960's bits it gets a 1960's bits age plate.
However I believe that in april next year the SVA changes to an IVA. One of the changes thought to be being introduced is that the a car built of 1960's bits would be aged to the build date not the bits date.
What this means in a very tidy legal fashion is that the loophole for getting a car on the road with poor emissions is effectively closed. The AJP you put in a kit car after April 1st next year would have to meet euro emission standards or you couldn't use it that rules out the AJP unless trackcar or such can actually get the AJP to perform through a conventional MOT rather than the TVR graunched one.
My advice to you is not to go ahead with the build you intend, but buy a knackered Cerb purely for its age legality and then refurbish, revamp and put whatever AJP you like in it without needed to get screwed by the IVA.
Hope the drivel makes sense and is a bit more helpful than the don't use the logo stuff.
I wonder what TVR would think of the fact that my old TVR badge is currently sitting on the front of my lawnmower?
julian64 said:
Sounds like a great project. I would probably ignore any of the naysayer, especially those who sound like lawyers. Never had any time for lawyers
On a practical note I think you'd only have trouble with the AJP engine though.
Currently if you build a car from new or old parts you have to take it in for an SVA. The age of the car is dictated by a small calculation based on the majority of its bits. In other words if you build a car out of 1960's bits it gets a 1960's bits age plate.
However I believe that in april next year the SVA changes to an IVA. One of the changes thought to be being introduced is that the a car built of 1960's bits would be aged to the build date not the bits date.
What this means in a very tidy legal fashion is that the loophole for getting a car on the road with poor emissions is effectively closed. The AJP you put in a kit car after April 1st next year would have to meet euro emission standards or you couldn't use it that rules out the AJP unless trackcar or such can actually get the AJP to perform through a conventional MOT rather than the TVR graunched one.
My advice to you is not to go ahead with the build you intend, but buy a knackered Cerb purely for its age legality and then refurbish, revamp and put whatever AJP you like in it without needed to get screwed by the IVA.
Hope the drivel makes sense and is a bit more helpful than the don't use the logo stuff.
I wonder what TVR would think of the fact that my old TVR badge is currently sitting on the front of my lawnmower?
Very useful advice - and nothing wrong with rescuing / improving another Cerb On a practical note I think you'd only have trouble with the AJP engine though.
Currently if you build a car from new or old parts you have to take it in for an SVA. The age of the car is dictated by a small calculation based on the majority of its bits. In other words if you build a car out of 1960's bits it gets a 1960's bits age plate.
However I believe that in april next year the SVA changes to an IVA. One of the changes thought to be being introduced is that the a car built of 1960's bits would be aged to the build date not the bits date.
What this means in a very tidy legal fashion is that the loophole for getting a car on the road with poor emissions is effectively closed. The AJP you put in a kit car after April 1st next year would have to meet euro emission standards or you couldn't use it that rules out the AJP unless trackcar or such can actually get the AJP to perform through a conventional MOT rather than the TVR graunched one.
My advice to you is not to go ahead with the build you intend, but buy a knackered Cerb purely for its age legality and then refurbish, revamp and put whatever AJP you like in it without needed to get screwed by the IVA.
Hope the drivel makes sense and is a bit more helpful than the don't use the logo stuff.
I wonder what TVR would think of the fact that my old TVR badge is currently sitting on the front of my lawnmower?
Oh, BTW I have had a TVR walnut gear 'knob' on my lawnmower for 5 years now - definitely cuts the lawn quicker
Back in the 80's a colleague Mark Sealey - works for PA consulting now I think, went to GTM and bought a GTM coupe body shell and not the chassis because "It was st". He them built a chassis with a 2.0 lancia twin cam where the 1275 A series should have been and registered it as a GTM, Sealey, Lancia Special. (He also built a 4x4 Lada Sealey Special)
t". He them built a chassis with a 2.0 lancia twin cam where the 1275 A series should have been and registered it as a GTM, Sealey, Lancia Special. (He also built a 4x4 Lada Sealey Special) 
- good luckjulian64 said:
Sounds like a great project. I would probably ignore any of the naysayer, especially those who sound like lawyers. Never had any time for lawyers
On a practical note I think you'd only have trouble with the AJP engine though.
Currently if you build a car from new or old parts you have to take it in for an SVA. The age of the car is dictated by a small calculation based on the majority of its bits. In other words if you build a car out of 1960's bits it gets a 1960's bits age plate.
However I believe that in april next year the SVA changes to an IVA. One of the changes thought to be being introduced is that the a car built of 1960's bits would be aged to the build date not the bits date.
What this means in a very tidy legal fashion is that the loophole for getting a car on the road with poor emissions is effectively closed. The AJP you put in a kit car after April 1st next year would have to meet euro emission standards or you couldn't use it that rules out the AJP unless trackcar or such can actually get the AJP to perform through a conventional MOT rather than the TVR graunched one.
My advice to you is not to go ahead with the build you intend, but buy a knackered Cerb purely for its age legality and then refurbish, revamp and put whatever AJP you like in it without needed to get screwed by the IVA.
Hope the drivel makes sense and is a bit more helpful than the don't use the logo stuff.
I wonder what TVR would think of the fact that my old TVR badge is currently sitting on the front of my lawnmower?
no reason why you can't stick another engine in and swap back to the AJP after though.On a practical note I think you'd only have trouble with the AJP engine though.
Currently if you build a car from new or old parts you have to take it in for an SVA. The age of the car is dictated by a small calculation based on the majority of its bits. In other words if you build a car out of 1960's bits it gets a 1960's bits age plate.
However I believe that in april next year the SVA changes to an IVA. One of the changes thought to be being introduced is that the a car built of 1960's bits would be aged to the build date not the bits date.
What this means in a very tidy legal fashion is that the loophole for getting a car on the road with poor emissions is effectively closed. The AJP you put in a kit car after April 1st next year would have to meet euro emission standards or you couldn't use it that rules out the AJP unless trackcar or such can actually get the AJP to perform through a conventional MOT rather than the TVR graunched one.
My advice to you is not to go ahead with the build you intend, but buy a knackered Cerb purely for its age legality and then refurbish, revamp and put whatever AJP you like in it without needed to get screwed by the IVA.
Hope the drivel makes sense and is a bit more helpful than the don't use the logo stuff.
I wonder what TVR would think of the fact that my old TVR badge is currently sitting on the front of my lawnmower?
julian64 said:
Sounds like a great project. I would probably ignore any of the naysayer, especially those who sound like lawyers. Never had any time for lawyers
Yeah, my frustration showed through my writing, I'm sorry to say.julian64 said:
On a practical note I think you'd only have trouble with the AJP engine though.
Currently if you build a car from new or old parts you have to take it in for an SVA. The age of the car is dictated by a small calculation based on the majority of its bits. In other words if you build a car out of 1960's bits it gets a 1960's bits age plate.
However I believe that in april next year the SVA changes to an IVA. One of the changes thought to be being introduced is that the a car built of 1960's bits would be aged to the build date not the bits date.
What this means in a very tidy legal fashion is that the loophole for getting a car on the road with poor emissions is effectively closed. The AJP you put in a kit car after April 1st next year would have to meet euro emission standards or you couldn't use it that rules out the AJP unless trackcar or such can actually get the AJP to perform through a conventional MOT rather than the TVR graunched one.
My advice to you is not to go ahead with the build you intend, but buy a knackered Cerb purely for its age legality and then refurbish, revamp and put whatever AJP you like in it without needed to get screwed by the IVA.
Indeed, and based on much of what you have written, I am wrestling with 2 options:Currently if you build a car from new or old parts you have to take it in for an SVA. The age of the car is dictated by a small calculation based on the majority of its bits. In other words if you build a car out of 1960's bits it gets a 1960's bits age plate.
However I believe that in april next year the SVA changes to an IVA. One of the changes thought to be being introduced is that the a car built of 1960's bits would be aged to the build date not the bits date.
What this means in a very tidy legal fashion is that the loophole for getting a car on the road with poor emissions is effectively closed. The AJP you put in a kit car after April 1st next year would have to meet euro emission standards or you couldn't use it that rules out the AJP unless trackcar or such can actually get the AJP to perform through a conventional MOT rather than the TVR graunched one.
My advice to you is not to go ahead with the build you intend, but buy a knackered Cerb purely for its age legality and then refurbish, revamp and put whatever AJP you like in it without needed to get screwed by the IVA.
1. Buy knackered Cerb. Benefit from it's V5. Rebuild from scratch.
2. Build new one based on as many new/alternative parts as possible. SVA/IVA it with current emissions levels.
Option 2 would almost certainly involve putting an LS engine in, simply because that is capable of passing current emissions levels.
Option 1 has a lot of appeal though, mostly because I'd get a pre-2001 Cerb and should be outside of the stupid road tax requirements for next year.
But still, option 2 has a lot of appeal. Imagine an almost clean slate with regards to the small components. I love the idea of installing my own electrical system (oh God, if only it was implemented properly to begin with), a more modern control and monitor setup (buttons, stalks and LCD dash), do away with the stereo altogether, maybe implement some better side impact protection, and make sense of the rediculous under-bonnet pipework - no car needs to be that complex.
Ultimately, if I want to use it for road rallies and time trials, I want it to be reliable and (most importantly) easy to maintain by the roadside. Having things like the totally inaccessible "big fuse" mounted at the rear of the engine just makes this sort of thing a bit of a wing and a prayer.
Since the Cerb was designed there have been improvements in components so I reckon it ought to be easy enough to find a strong 6-speed box, an indestructable diff and chassis powedercoating that doesn't flake off at the first sign of inclement weather.
Many of the components I'd use are current upgrades available for Cerbs, like the brakes, SP wheels and backbox. It'd be nice to implement the electric power steering pump some people have already installed, a dry sump (why not if I'm going for an ultimate build) and re-design where ancilliaries in the engine bay are mounted to give better access to everything. The current expansion tank makes it impossible to get at the windscreen wiper mechanism, and the battery couldn't be more difficult to get at, as well as possibly being oversized anyway.
I haven't decided yet. I've a list of interesting cars to look at next, another Cerb is just one of them. This new shell advertised here just gave me a different option to the traditional "buy a knacker and restore". Very appealing.
julian64 said:
Hope the drivel makes sense and is a bit more helpful than the don't use the logo stuff.
Very useful, thanks.julian64 said:
I wonder what TVR would think of the fact that my old TVR badge is currently sitting on the front of my lawnmower?
LOL..!! Is there even anything called TVR any more?Who cares anyway? I doubt a company can stop a private owner adorning their own property with any type of badges they so desire.
I have to agree with the lawyer’s argument and the guy that’s considering building it??????
Lawyers are like jackals, sorry if I’ve offended any jackals, they will given an opportunity make money out of this kind of thing.
The best approach is to do it and not to bloody well advertise the fact and/or part with the finished product.
If you built your own computer and stuck a Dell badge on it who would know? Nobody, that’s who, but if you sold it on eBay as a Dell wait for the letters to arrive.
Simple
With regards to re-building a cerb as kit I see no problem with this, providing you have the expertise and right parts. A whole industry is built up around kit cars.
Lawyers are like jackals, sorry if I’ve offended any jackals, they will given an opportunity make money out of this kind of thing.
The best approach is to do it and not to bloody well advertise the fact and/or part with the finished product.
If you built your own computer and stuck a Dell badge on it who would know? Nobody, that’s who, but if you sold it on eBay as a Dell wait for the letters to arrive.
Simple
With regards to re-building a cerb as kit I see no problem with this, providing you have the expertise and right parts. A whole industry is built up around kit cars.
G1ABB said:
Be very careful about badging anthing TVR that isn't. They still exist you know and lawyers make lots of money from this kind of stuff.
cheers
Graham
Sounds like perfectly friendly advice to me - especially as the original post was looking for advice on building a car from scratch.cheers
Graham
Having only had my Cerb for a couple of months, I have already wondered what it would be like with a rear transaxle/gearbox to improve the weight distribution.
Is the huge boot to put weights in??
As for using the TVR logo. I can't see it being a problem for a one off.
Ford have had years to do something about all the GT40 replicas.
But then all the good ones have Ford engines in anyway, so may be different.
Imitaion is the best compliment?
Does anyone know what happened to the AJP engine build set-up?
Has it really all gone to Poland?
Did they outsource components from various engineering firms and just assemble?
Could you build one from bits??
Anyway good luck and go for it!
Is the huge boot to put weights in??
As for using the TVR logo. I can't see it being a problem for a one off.
Ford have had years to do something about all the GT40 replicas.
But then all the good ones have Ford engines in anyway, so may be different.
Imitaion is the best compliment?
Does anyone know what happened to the AJP engine build set-up?
Has it really all gone to Poland?
Did they outsource components from various engineering firms and just assemble?
Could you build one from bits??
Anyway good luck and go for it!
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