Starter motor again?

[Nefarious]

My intermittant starting problem is back (had to get a couple of blokes to give me a bump start on Saturday)
I'm pretty sure its the starter motor (even though it was only refurbed 6 months ago), but I'd quite like to hear other thoughts before I whip it off again.

- I can hear the solanoid clicking (ruling out the immobiliser problem)
- It sometimes tries to engage but just grinds (like when you try to 'start' an already running engine)
- Battery is new and gives 12.5v+
- I've fitted a heavy gauge earth strap directly from the battery to the starter motor housing.

However,
- it doesn't respond to being rocked in gear (which IME commonly frees a jammed starter)
- It did give me a quarter of a turn at some point during my hundred tries on Saturday (indicating that its not actually jammed)
- I haven't tried a direct feed to the signal wire on the starter (the problem of being an intermittant fault).

Thoughts?

[Ballsy]

It does sound like the starter has had it, if its been refurbed did you get a warrenty for 12 months?? Hopefully if you send it back they'l do it for free!!
Heard a few stories on here about getting them refurbed and them dying after a very short while

[caduceus]

Bad earth? Have you checked all the earth cables in the engine bay? Maybe one of them is breaking down, as is the case with mine, which also had the same starter problems.

[Nefarious]

caduceus said:

Bad earth? Have you checked all the earth cables in the engine bay? Maybe one of them is breaking down, as is the case with mine, which also had the same starter problems.

Nah, I can be pretty sure the earthing is OK - I went nuts earthing stuff just before Christmas.
High gauge cable to:
Replace battery to chassis connection and chassis to engine connection
Add extra earth direct to starter
Add extra earth direct to engine earth point
Add extra earth to air box bracket (where I charge/jump from).

Belt, braces and a few extra bits of elastic, just for good measure;)


Oh, and yes, I do (theoretically) have a 12 month warranty - I just didn't want to start dismantling stuff for the umpteenth time (and have the car off the road for a week plus) before I'd ruled out any other possibilities.

Edited by Nefarious on Monday 28th July 10:25

[Raw Cerb]

This one is my biggest cerb niggle. I have had two starters. It still occassionaly lets me down (usaully in a petrol garage). The dreaded hot start click. Yours does sound a little different if it did manage to turn a little - which sounds more like a current/earth issue to me.

I cannot believe no one has come up with a definitive answer yet.

[optimax sniffer]

Try cleaning out the starter, it could be full of dust / debris.

Pretty easy job to do, as long as you remember where all the bits go.

[Cyclone1]

I replaced mine about 2-3 years ago with a NISSAN MAXIMA starter motor, although I don't own that car anymore I know that it hasn't been change again yet, plus if you can source one then they are quite cheap. Do a search on here as I think there may be some other solutions Cerb owners have tried.

Jules.

[Nefarious]

If I'm getting the bd out, then Lucas can damn well sort it out. I'm still p1ssed off with them that they walked me into spending more on a refurb than a Maxima starter would have been in the first place.

Thanks for the help guys.

[Cyclone1]

Nefarious said:

If I'm getting the bd out, then Lucas can damn well sort it out. I'm still p1ssed off with them that they walked me into spending more on a refurb than a Maxima starter would have been in the first place.

Thanks for the help guys.

I feel your frustration and yes Lucas should certainly replace it again FOC. Can't remember the exact improvement but it was to do with a certain part of the starter being affected by heat, this can be upgraded I think. Might be worth finding out what it is and mentioning it to Lucas......that's if you haven't already.

Jules.

[Nefarious]

Just one thing to add - the problem doesn't seem heat related. I've had the grinding from cold and after short trips, and the complete deadness after only short trips (on saturday, I'd only just got the water up to temp before I stopped), and after a 20 min break on a sub-zero day.

That said, I will mention it to Lucas (now definately decided to take the bugger out), and wrap it in heat-shield when I re-fit it, just in case.

[BLUETHUNDER]

It does sound like the starter.I had three within one year.And one of those failed within a month.

[Ballsy]

Its not that much of a hard job to take out, if youve done it before it should be a doddle!!
Took me about an hour and a half the first time to take it out and put it in again, about half that time the second time!!

[mooey]

Exact symptoms I have encountered. I have tried different starter motors, checked all the connections etc. I have just added an extra cable from the -ve on the battery to the N/S chassis connection. I would be interested if you get to the bottom of the problem Nefarious.

[Demondad]

Try going direct from battery + to starter, if it turns its something else, if not get it out. That was advice that helped me decide from RG. My starter has worked for well over a year from RG cost £290 inc VAT.

[Konrod]

If it's grinding sometoimes, and not even trying on others then it's either the battery doesn't have enough oomph to drive the the solenoid (which engages the starter), or the solenoid throw mechanism isn't working i.e. it isn't pushing it the drive cog/drive rod far enough towards the ring gear top engage properly. If it starts sometimes the probably not battery.......

[FarmyardPants]

Konrod said:

If it's grinding sometoimes, and not even trying on others then it's either the battery doesn't have enough oomph to drive the the solenoid (which engages the starter), or the solenoid throw mechanism isn't working i.e. it isn't pushing it the drive cog/drive rod far enough towards the ring gear top engage properly. If it starts sometimes the probably not battery.......

That makes sense. Can the solenoid be replaced? Presumably, current isn't fed to the motor until the armature has been pushed out, so the various symptoms/causes could be:

• nothing happens - solenoid sticking/not activated
• grinding whirr but engine doesn't turn - solenoid not strong enough
• car starts and drives the starter for a few moments afterwards - solenoid sticking/not returning

In all three cases the motor itself could be fine.

I used to have the 2nd symptom occasionally but now get the 3rd, so maybe the return spring is getting weak.

[optimax sniffer]

FarmyardPants said:

• nothing happens - solenoid sticking/not activated
• car starts and drives the starter for a few moments afterwards - solenoid sticking/not returning

Thats why I cleaned mine. Seems Ok since

[ff5317]

I have been told that when the starters are rebuilt they tend to use the parts for a manual gearbox for whichever model nissan it is, and that it is actually the bits for the auto model that need to be used for a Cerb starter as they are more heavy duty.

Edited by ff5317 on Thursday 31st July 16:50

[Nefarious]

ff5317 said:

I have been told that when the starters are rebuilt they tend to use the parts for a manual gearbox for whichever model nissan it is, and that it is actually the bits for the auto model that need to be used for a Cerb starter as htey are more heavy duty.

Obviously that only applies to rebuilding a Nissan Maxima one, rather than the original TVR one (of which I believe there are a number of different versions).