4.2 vs 4.5 how different really?
Discussion
No I am not contemplating to switch my quest for a S6 to a V8 (yet) but in the grand scheme of learning as much as possible (and yes I have read a large part of the threads)and working out a back up plan I was wondering if I cant find the right S6 which V8 to aim for. Part of this is because I read that parts used in the S6 to make it a bit more refined than the V8's and usuable in day to day traffic (different springs) ended up in the V8's as well.
I amnot so much interested in the absolute performance figures, I will never test them, I am much more interested in reliability and (some of you may find this not done) making my final choice work as a schoolrun/backroad driver combo. Possibly even changing the steering wheel gearing if possible (and necesary)
In terms of reliability what I understand is that the 4.5 is supposed to be stronger than the 4.2, also I understand that the engine can be made smoother with a remap. I have seen more comments about 4.2's having been rebuild as well.
On the other side people have told me that the 4.5 is a lot louder (cant that be sorted with a different exhaust?). Another downside is that the 4.5's seem to have been used a lot on trackdays, which must mean some issues with overall quality compared to a similar 4.2.
anyone?
thx
Wiebe
I amnot so much interested in the absolute performance figures, I will never test them, I am much more interested in reliability and (some of you may find this not done) making my final choice work as a schoolrun/backroad driver combo. Possibly even changing the steering wheel gearing if possible (and necesary)
In terms of reliability what I understand is that the 4.5 is supposed to be stronger than the 4.2, also I understand that the engine can be made smoother with a remap. I have seen more comments about 4.2's having been rebuild as well.
On the other side people have told me that the 4.5 is a lot louder (cant that be sorted with a different exhaust?). Another downside is that the 4.5's seem to have been used a lot on trackdays, which must mean some issues with overall quality compared to a similar 4.2.
anyone?
thx
Wiebe
Unfotunately nothing thats said on this thread will give you the answer to your questions.
There is more difference between two sucessive 4.5 cars than there is between a 4.5 and a 4.2.
It therefore makes what people say about the differences less important than trying sucessive ones out till you find one that drives like you do
There is more difference between two sucessive 4.5 cars than there is between a 4.5 and a 4.2.
It therefore makes what people say about the differences less important than trying sucessive ones out till you find one that drives like you do
turfclubroad said:
I am not so much interested in the absolute performance figures, I will never test them, I am much more interested in reliability
Are you sure the SP6 is what you really want then? No offence to SP6 owners, but having a 4.5 is enough of a worry, i'm sure it's amplified slightly if you own a SP6, as wonderful as they are.The SP6 definately has issues, and requires much more care and attention. I'd say a later 4.2/4.5 would be more realiable, but then that again depends on how the car has been looked after, you never know until you test one.
turfclubroad said:
Some of you may find this not done, making my final choice work as a schoolrun/backroad driver combo. Possibly even changing the steering wheel gearing if possible (and necesary)
In terms of reliability what I understand is that the 4.5 is supposed to be stronger than the 4.2, also I understand that the engine can be made smoother with a remap. I have seen more comments about 4.2's having been rebuild as well.
I'm sure you can use it as a schoolrun/spirited driving combination, depending on how long your school run is of course! I doubt it'd do the engine much good sitting cold in traffic for 3 miles each way, no car likes that, let alone one with such tight tolerances in the engine.In terms of reliability what I understand is that the 4.5 is supposed to be stronger than the 4.2, also I understand that the engine can be made smoother with a remap. I have seen more comments about 4.2's having been rebuild as well.
I too have heard the 4.5 can be smoothed out with a remap, but, even in traffic, I don't find mine particularly 'lumpy'. The clutch didn't even feel that heavy after hours of driving around London at TiTT3, so it's not a difficult car to live with, hell, my wife drives it no problems..
The tutning is woeful though, it has the turning circle of Nimitz Class Aircraft Carrier, I have no idea how you get around that, if you change that would the clearances under the arches allow it? I haven't a clue, however, it's not heavy, and like I said, it's a docile car, power steering makes things easy.
turfclubroad said:
On the other side people have told me that the 4.5 is a lot louder (cant that be sorted with a different exhaust?). Another downside is that the 4.5's seem to have been used a lot on trackdays, which must mean some issues with overall quality compared to a similar 4.2.
The 4.2 is pretty much sorted in standard form, whereas the 4.5 has 'potential' to unlock, therefore you find they are subjected to more engine/breathing modifications, be it the remap, short induction or exhausts/decats.I doubt there's much in it between two standard cars to be honest.
I also doubt there is any reasoning in seeing that more 4.5s are used on trackdays to 4.2s, there's no logic behind it. It's not exactly a bad thing either. Cars that are used on trackdays tend to have a lot more love. More frequent oil changes, checks to chassis/outriggers etc. These all get replaced or checked more often (and rightly so) as you don't want something failing whilst your out there.
If you test, and you must TEST drive them, you'll notice how different each car is.
Good luck in your search, and remember, purple ones are the fastest.
Echo all that really, not much difference between the basics of a 4.2 and a 4.5, only thing was the early crank issue which was sorted 98 onwards regardless, besides we have to start to imagine that if 96/97 are running around on their originals cranks now, then they're probably gonna last now anyway 
. 4.2 standard mapping is considered better so maybe smoother out the box than 4.5's but then as said, an aftermarket remap sorts that by all accounts (and gets you more power, out the box 4.5's are often produce lower numbers than 4.2's). As for the turning circle, that's a specific problem with running Spiders which (due to incorrect offset/width) necessitated the use of stop locks to prevent the wheels catching the wishbones - never had stop locks on my car and no need as running SP wheels and I really have no problem with my turning circle, SP's or the original 17"RL or 16"Saturn wheels and should be no problems (obviously if the car has had Spiders and therefore has stop locks fitted, they will need removing as well as just changing the wheels).
. 4.2 standard mapping is considered better so maybe smoother out the box than 4.5's but then as said, an aftermarket remap sorts that by all accounts (and gets you more power, out the box 4.5's are often produce lower numbers than 4.2's). As for the turning circle, that's a specific problem with running Spiders which (due to incorrect offset/width) necessitated the use of stop locks to prevent the wheels catching the wishbones - never had stop locks on my car and no need as running SP wheels and I really have no problem with my turning circle, SP's or the original 17"RL or 16"Saturn wheels and should be no problems (obviously if the car has had Spiders and therefore has stop locks fitted, they will need removing as well as just changing the wheels).Wiebe
I have a 4.5 which had original 10 year old suspension when I got it last year.
It now rides on Gaz Golds and is much better.
I doubt there are many on the originals these days?
So you may find that even S6 owners have done the same.
My 4.5 was "smoothed out" by Austec and it really has made a huge difference!
But at normal road speeds, I am only just touching the throttle.
About 10mm movement is all you need.
I almost went for a S6 for the very reasons you say, but once I got a drive in my car I found it was so different to any other car I've driven that a bit softer spring would not be noticed.
I see you are in Surrey, so pop down the next TVRCC meet and have a chat??
Steve
I have a 4.5 which had original 10 year old suspension when I got it last year.
It now rides on Gaz Golds and is much better.
I doubt there are many on the originals these days?
So you may find that even S6 owners have done the same.
My 4.5 was "smoothed out" by Austec and it really has made a huge difference!
But at normal road speeds, I am only just touching the throttle.
About 10mm movement is all you need.
I almost went for a S6 for the very reasons you say, but once I got a drive in my car I found it was so different to any other car I've driven that a bit softer spring would not be noticed.
I see you are in Surrey, so pop down the next TVRCC meet and have a chat??
Steve
turfclubroad said:
when is the meet?
Wiebe
Surrey TVR Car Club meet at The Woolpack Country Inn, Elstead, a few minutes from the A3, on the 4th Thursday of every month from 7.30pmWiebe
If the weather is good I'll even bring the Cerbera out!
But sorry, NO, I won't let you drive it!
I make that the 22nd.
Steve
[quote=Dirty Boy] Are you sure the SP6 is what you really want then? No offence to SP6 owners, but having a 4.5 is enough of a worry, i'm sure it's amplified slightly if you own a SP6, as wonderful as they are.
The SP6 definately has issues, and requires much more care and attention. I'd say a later 4.2/4.5 would be more realiable, but then that again depends on how the car has been looked after, you never know until you test one.
When I first starting reading the PH threads I was very disappointed to find that the S6 has had so many reliability issues and from that point of view I can understand Dirty Boys remark. But now I am starting to sense that these are really an issue with S6's without engine rebuild or early rebuilds (not changing the design). The rebuilds which have been taken place over the last year or so and the ones on the horizon all backed up by impressive guarantees have to mean something, and may cause the V8's to become the less reliable engine option. I understand that these have other issues like the oil and water pump set up? Which is the reason why I would ideally like to buy a good S6 with a failed engine.....
What I find unfortunate is that more and more comments are being made that individual similar model cars can show bigger differences in driving experience that cars of different models: not many to choose from in the end and certainly not a situation where one set its mind on a cerain colour combo, or I just have to be patient.... Having said that, that wouldalso mean that a well sorted V* may feel nicer to drive to S6's....
All of this said with the benefit of my huge (NOT) experience with these cars.... Yes I will start to get my test drives asap, its just not going to be easy to find enough examples within reasonable driving distance....
W
The SP6 definately has issues, and requires much more care and attention. I'd say a later 4.2/4.5 would be more realiable, but then that again depends on how the car has been looked after, you never know until you test one.
When I first starting reading the PH threads I was very disappointed to find that the S6 has had so many reliability issues and from that point of view I can understand Dirty Boys remark. But now I am starting to sense that these are really an issue with S6's without engine rebuild or early rebuilds (not changing the design). The rebuilds which have been taken place over the last year or so and the ones on the horizon all backed up by impressive guarantees have to mean something, and may cause the V8's to become the less reliable engine option. I understand that these have other issues like the oil and water pump set up? Which is the reason why I would ideally like to buy a good S6 with a failed engine.....
What I find unfortunate is that more and more comments are being made that individual similar model cars can show bigger differences in driving experience that cars of different models: not many to choose from in the end and certainly not a situation where one set its mind on a cerain colour combo, or I just have to be patient.... Having said that, that wouldalso mean that a well sorted V* may feel nicer to drive to S6's....
All of this said with the benefit of my huge (NOT) experience with these cars.... Yes I will start to get my test drives asap, its just not going to be easy to find enough examples within reasonable driving distance....
W
turfclubroad said:
No I am not contemplating to switch my quest for a S6 to a V8 (yet)
Oh yeah? So why the interest in the 4.5 I have for sale. 
I'm not going to try and sell my car to you and I'm no TVR expert but once I'd agreed to take it in part ex I spent days researching the car and the differences between the 4.2 and 4.5.
I've owned/driven alot of performance cars in my time and had a days use of a cerb 4.2 (on track) a few years back. I never imagined I'd find a car with as much grin factor.... Until I got this 4.5 that is.
I don't know if its the out right power, where in the rev range the powers delivered, the extra improvements to brakes suspension or just a combination of it all but it really is a whole different animal.
Let me know if you wanna try it out
turfclubroad said:
When I first starting reading the PH threads I was very disappointed to find that the S6 has had so many reliability issues and from that point of view I can understand Dirty Boys remark. But now I am starting to sense that these are really an issue with S6's without engine rebuild or early rebuilds (not changing the design). The rebuilds which have been taken place over the last year or so and the ones on the horizon all backed up by impressive guarantees have to mean something
Ensure the warranty is backed by insurance.It is early days surely to clain the recent rebuilds have fixed the engine design flaws? Plenty of people have claimed to have fixed them and have failed. Hopefully the recent ones have done it though.
KarlR said:
Off topic slightly, but which is the quicker S6 or 4.2. S6 producing around the 400hp mark, the 4.2 360ish?? So the S6 has it?? .. and must also be close to the 4.5?
I raced a couple of SP6's at the original Fighting Torque (in a Standard 4.2) & although the SP6 was better for the 1st few hundred yards (braver launch technique?), by the half way mark, I was back in front......SP6 should be 360bhp
4.2 should be either 350 for an early car, or 360 for a later....
SP6's generally make very close to their quoted power, 4.2's will be maybe 20bhp down, standard 4.5s can be 70+bhp down on the quoted 420 !
But as has been said every car is different ! I've driven about 8 Cerbs now (all V8's), and not 1 has been the same....
I notice from your profile that you currently have to Porsche's. So why do you want a TVR, and why a Cerbera? You will be appalled at the build quality compated to the Porsche! You also say you want one for School Runs and Back Road driving - I can't think of a worse car to choose! The Cerb's ideal home, is on fast, dry roads with sweeping bends.
There isn't really that much difference between the S6 and the 2 V8 models, that a newcomer would notice. As has been said before no 2 Cerbs are the same, so I would advise that you just drive as many as you can, and choose the one that is best.
The Cerb's ideal home, is on fast, dry roads with sweeping bends. There isn't really that much difference between the S6 and the 2 V8 models, that a newcomer would notice. As has been said before no 2 Cerbs are the same, so I would advise that you just drive as many as you can, and choose the one that is best.
Edited by JensenA on Monday 12th January 10:24
Olly said:
KarlR said:
Off topic slightly, but which is the quicker S6 or 4.2. S6 producing around the 400hp mark, the 4.2 360ish?? So the S6 has it?? .. and must also be close to the 4.5?
I raced a couple of SP6's at the original Fighting Torque (in a Standard 4.2) & although the SP6 was better for the 1st few hundred yards (braver launch technique?), by the half way mark, I was back in front......SP6 should be 360bhp
4.2 should be either 350 for an early car, or 360 for a later....
SP6's generally make very close to their quoted power, 4.2's will be maybe 20bhp down, standard 4.5s can be 70+bhp down on the quoted 420 !
But as has been said every car is different ! I've driven about 8 Cerbs now (all V8's), and not 1 has been the same....
JensenA said:
I notice from your profile that you currently have to Porsche's. So why do you want a TVR, and why a Cerbera? You will be appalled at the build quality compated to the Porsche! You also say you want one for School Runs and Back Road driving - I can't think of a worse car to choose! The Cerb's ideal home, is on fast, dry roads with sweeping bends.
There isn't really that much difference between the S6 and the 2 V8 models, that a newcomer would notice. As has been said before no 2 Cerbs are the same, so I would advise that you just drive as many as you can, and choose the one that is best.
I am sure that I will be appalled but it also has everything to do with managing expectations: If I expect the worst ..... The Cerb's ideal home, is on fast, dry roads with sweeping bends. There isn't really that much difference between the S6 and the 2 V8 models, that a newcomer would notice. As has been said before no 2 Cerbs are the same, so I would advise that you just drive as many as you can, and choose the one that is best.
Edited by JensenA on Monday 12th January 10:24
Thx abou the advice on the difference between S6 and v8's, I actually did not notice that much, except for the S6 being more balanced in power delivery, but nothing to write home about
was not impressed with the V8's song though, certainly not love at first sight....
thx
Wiebe
JensenA said:
I notice from your profile that you currently have to Porsche's. So why do you want a TVR, and why a Cerbera? You will be appalled at the build quality compated to the Porsche! You also say you want one for School Runs and Back Road driving - I can't think of a worse car to choose! The Cerb's ideal home, is on fast, dry roads with sweeping bends.
There isn't really that much difference between the S6 and the 2 V8 models, that a newcomer would notice. As has been said before no 2 Cerbs are the same, so I would advise that you just drive as many as you can, and choose the one that is best.
Did you not notice he has a Land Rover as well! The Cerb's ideal home, is on fast, dry roads with sweeping bends. There isn't really that much difference between the S6 and the 2 V8 models, that a newcomer would notice. As has been said before no 2 Cerbs are the same, so I would advise that you just drive as many as you can, and choose the one that is best.
Edited by JensenA on Monday 12th January 10:24
Gassing Station | Cerbera | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff