Camshaft question for the LS-enginefans
Discussion
As my car is getting converted right now by Steve Heath and Dave Wallis, I am surfing on the net a lot.
My engine is a LS2 with L98 heads (LS3)and is has a slightly lower compressionratio (10.4) compared with the LS2 (10,9). What I read on the net is that this engine has the better heads, but the LS2 has the better cam. The power doesn't fall off that fast in case of the LS2.
What I would like to fit in the LS2/LS3 someday, is a cam with a good to fair idle and an increase of power and torque into the upper range. Without loosing offcoarse in the middle or also a bettering in that region. Maybe I wish too much. I do not know. I am not a technician. It would have to work fine with the standard intake and Cerbera exhaust.
A further upgrade, in time, would perhaps be a 2,5" exhaust system with shorty headers. A "FAST" intake is also on my wishlist, but one can wish and wish forever.
What, to nmy feeling, comes close is a COMP CAM 277 XTREME RPM 54-418-11. It is a 224/228 cam I believe.
Can any of you guys give an opinion about the right cam. Not too wild and good driveability.
My engine is a LS2 with L98 heads (LS3)and is has a slightly lower compressionratio (10.4) compared with the LS2 (10,9). What I read on the net is that this engine has the better heads, but the LS2 has the better cam. The power doesn't fall off that fast in case of the LS2.
What I would like to fit in the LS2/LS3 someday, is a cam with a good to fair idle and an increase of power and torque into the upper range. Without loosing offcoarse in the middle or also a bettering in that region. Maybe I wish too much. I do not know. I am not a technician. It would have to work fine with the standard intake and Cerbera exhaust.
A further upgrade, in time, would perhaps be a 2,5" exhaust system with shorty headers. A "FAST" intake is also on my wishlist, but one can wish and wish forever.
What, to nmy feeling, comes close is a COMP CAM 277 XTREME RPM 54-418-11. It is a 224/228 cam I believe.
Can any of you guys give an opinion about the right cam. Not too wild and good driveability.
Those heads you have need a bigger split on the exhaust valve side, speak to someone like Thunder Racing in the States, thats where all my stuff comes from, everything they have suggested has worked. Mine has gone from 350 bhp at the wheels to 512, all with stuff they have said to go for. HTH
While I don't have a car yet, I do have an LS engine and have read a litle bit on the engines, if you haven't found it already it is worth checking LS1tech and look at the "fourth generation" forums.
I would warn you there is allot information there, but also a huge number of posts by people who are alittle confused, afterall GM did make something like 5 different versions of the engine they themselves call the LS1 (different blocks, cams, heads, and intakes etc).
Generally the cylinder heads you have are called the "L92"s and are of quite a different design to the LS2.
If you were to look at the L92 heads side by side with a set of LS2 the biggest difference would be in the intake ports, the LS2s (and all the older designs and all but highest end after market heads) are called cathederal port based on their port shape, where as the L92 heads area rounded rectangular port.
What this basically means is that all the cams for the LS2 are no good to you. I think you should know that the "FAST" intake you have been looking at will NOT fit, ever. The "Fast LSX 90" or the newer "Fast LSX 92" are for Cathederal port heads only.
Saying that hopefully by the end of April, Fast will release the LSXr 102 intake for the L92 intake type heads.
Once you are actually talking to people, it might be worth considerring a custom made camshaft, other wise you are going to need an L92/LS3 cam for a 6.0l engine. Alternatively you might want to ask Thunderracing if they have a "CheaTR" cam for a 6.0l L92 setup, the cheater style is basically very good street manners and a good power over a very wide rev range (the LS2 version peaks at 6200rpm but has pretty much stock idle), you will probably need new valve springs though...
As Brummmie has said the L92 style heads need a different style of cam to the cathederal port(LS2), is basically because the L92 heads have very good intake airflow levels, but the exhaust is comparatively weak- basically you don't need so much intake duration, compared to the exhaust.
I would add another +1 to Thunderracing as they are where I got the majority of my parts from.
Out of curiousity is your engine a used "drop out" or a crate engine?
To add some boring info to this post which I think should help you:
Generally parts are called by the first engine name that the part was used with.
The cyclinder heads you have were first used on a Truck engine called the L92, the intake for this engine is specific to the trucks (ie TALL).
The car style intake that you will be using was first used on a holden engine called the L76, so you will almost always read the intake called the L76.
To confuse this issue there are times when a particular engine specification will become very popular, best example of this is the LS3 used in the 07+ std Corvettes, the heads are the same design as those used by the L92 (but has hollow stem/sodium filled valves), and has the same intake style as the L76. So this basically means that the heads and intake you are using can be called the L92/LS3 heads and the L76/LS3 intake.
LS2 Engine spec:
Block - LS block 4" bore (used by other LS engines eg L76, L98)
Heads - cathederal port casting #243 or #799 (exact same design as those used on LS6 different valves)
Cam - LS2 Cam spec (specific to this engine, something like 0.525/0.525, 202/204)
Intake - Ls2 intake (specific to this engine)
Oil sump will be different depending on car it is installed in.
L98 engine spec:
Block - LS block 4" bore
Heads - L92 square port (same design as used on the LS3, L76, L92 and others)
Cam - don't know the specs but will be very similar to an "LS1" cam - very mild.
Intake - L76 intake
Some Makers of aftermarket Cylinder heads
AFR(very highly rated)
Dart (Brummmies heads)
TFS(Trickflow) (very highly rated)
WCCH(very highly rated)
ETP(highly rated)
Edelbrock,
You should also know that there is an even bigger number of companies that have CNC programs to port standard GM cylinder heads.
Everyone and their uncle can make and spec camshafts, the number of people who can make a good L92/LS3 cam is much smaller.
I would warn you there is allot information there, but also a huge number of posts by people who are alittle confused, afterall GM did make something like 5 different versions of the engine they themselves call the LS1 (different blocks, cams, heads, and intakes etc).
flyingdutchie said:
As my car is getting converted right now by Steve Heath and Dave Wallis, I am surfing on the net a lot.
My engine is a LS2 with L98 heads (LS3)and is has a slightly lower compressionratio (10.4) compared with the LS2 (10,9). What I read on the net is that this engine has the better heads, but the LS2 has the better cam. The power doesn't fall off that fast in case of the LS2.
The difference between the LS2 and the L98(a holden spec engine) is basically a less radical cam and the better L92 heads and the L76 intake.My engine is a LS2 with L98 heads (LS3)and is has a slightly lower compressionratio (10.4) compared with the LS2 (10,9). What I read on the net is that this engine has the better heads, but the LS2 has the better cam. The power doesn't fall off that fast in case of the LS2.
Generally the cylinder heads you have are called the "L92"s and are of quite a different design to the LS2.
If you were to look at the L92 heads side by side with a set of LS2 the biggest difference would be in the intake ports, the LS2s (and all the older designs and all but highest end after market heads) are called cathederal port based on their port shape, where as the L92 heads area rounded rectangular port.
What this basically means is that all the cams for the LS2 are no good to you. I think you should know that the "FAST" intake you have been looking at will NOT fit, ever. The "Fast LSX 90" or the newer "Fast LSX 92" are for Cathederal port heads only.
Saying that hopefully by the end of April, Fast will release the LSXr 102 intake for the L92 intake type heads.
flyingdutchie said:
What I would like to fit in the LS2/LS3 someday, is a cam with a good to fair idle and an increase of power and torque into the upper range. Without loosing offcoarse in the middle or also a bettering in that region. Maybe I wish too much. I do not know. I am not a technician. It would have to work fine with the standard intake and Cerbera exhaust.
A further upgrade, in time, would perhaps be a 2,5" exhaust system with shorty headers. A "FAST" intake is also on my wishlist, but one can wish and wish forever.
What, to my feeling, comes close is a COMP CAM 277 XTREME RPM 54-418-11. It is a 224/228 cam I believe.
Can any of you guys give an opinion about the right cam. Not too wild and good driveability.
My advice would be first to read up alittle on the engines, if you can be comfortable with the names and terms it will likely make this process alot easier for you.A further upgrade, in time, would perhaps be a 2,5" exhaust system with shorty headers. A "FAST" intake is also on my wishlist, but one can wish and wish forever.
What, to my feeling, comes close is a COMP CAM 277 XTREME RPM 54-418-11. It is a 224/228 cam I believe.
Can any of you guys give an opinion about the right cam. Not too wild and good driveability.
Once you are actually talking to people, it might be worth considerring a custom made camshaft, other wise you are going to need an L92/LS3 cam for a 6.0l engine. Alternatively you might want to ask Thunderracing if they have a "CheaTR" cam for a 6.0l L92 setup, the cheater style is basically very good street manners and a good power over a very wide rev range (the LS2 version peaks at 6200rpm but has pretty much stock idle), you will probably need new valve springs though...
As Brummmie has said the L92 style heads need a different style of cam to the cathederal port(LS2), is basically because the L92 heads have very good intake airflow levels, but the exhaust is comparatively weak- basically you don't need so much intake duration, compared to the exhaust.
I would add another +1 to Thunderracing as they are where I got the majority of my parts from.
Out of curiousity is your engine a used "drop out" or a crate engine?
To add some boring info to this post which I think should help you:
Generally parts are called by the first engine name that the part was used with.
The cyclinder heads you have were first used on a Truck engine called the L92, the intake for this engine is specific to the trucks (ie TALL).
The car style intake that you will be using was first used on a holden engine called the L76, so you will almost always read the intake called the L76.
To confuse this issue there are times when a particular engine specification will become very popular, best example of this is the LS3 used in the 07+ std Corvettes, the heads are the same design as those used by the L92 (but has hollow stem/sodium filled valves), and has the same intake style as the L76. So this basically means that the heads and intake you are using can be called the L92/LS3 heads and the L76/LS3 intake.
LS2 Engine spec:
Block - LS block 4" bore (used by other LS engines eg L76, L98)
Heads - cathederal port casting #243 or #799 (exact same design as those used on LS6 different valves)
Cam - LS2 Cam spec (specific to this engine, something like 0.525/0.525, 202/204)
Intake - Ls2 intake (specific to this engine)
Oil sump will be different depending on car it is installed in.
L98 engine spec:
Block - LS block 4" bore
Heads - L92 square port (same design as used on the LS3, L76, L92 and others)
Cam - don't know the specs but will be very similar to an "LS1" cam - very mild.
Intake - L76 intake
Some Makers of aftermarket Cylinder heads
AFR(very highly rated)
Dart (Brummmies heads)
TFS(Trickflow) (very highly rated)
WCCH(very highly rated)
ETP(highly rated)
Edelbrock,
You should also know that there is an even bigger number of companies that have CNC programs to port standard GM cylinder heads.
Everyone and their uncle can make and spec camshafts, the number of people who can make a good L92/LS3 cam is much smaller.
Edited by eLSerbera on Sunday 15th March 20:27
Not a response yet from thunderracing. There is nothing specific on for the L76/L92 heads though.
Foolwing suppliers do have them:
lgmotorsport- expensive but promising
vengeanceracing- looks promising too
crane cams (for the LS7)
GM motorsports also supply a stage one and stage 2 cam. It looks like a lot of owners are putting LS1-LS6 cams in and the supply of cams specific for these heads is still to come.
The cars/engines on the Thunderracing site are also the older generations. I guess I'll have to wait a couple of days more. Impatient.
Foolwing suppliers do have them:
lgmotorsport- expensive but promising
vengeanceracing- looks promising too
crane cams (for the LS7)
GM motorsports also supply a stage one and stage 2 cam. It looks like a lot of owners are putting LS1-LS6 cams in and the supply of cams specific for these heads is still to come.
The cars/engines on the Thunderracing site are also the older generations. I guess I'll have to wait a couple of days more. Impatient.
Gassing Station | Cerbera | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff