want a Cerbera - but only if I do the LS engine swap
Discussion
Hi all. I have wanted a Cerbera since the day they came out but as I a young man I wasn't in a position to finance such a car... or its now apparent 'issues'.
Now older I am having a slight midlife crisis and have considered buying a Cerbera to 'restore', 'update' and fit an engine that will cause me no issues (no offence to any hardcore TVR enthusiasts, trust me I have read many posts on here so I know this is a touchy subject!!).
My mate has a Sagaris and I went with to Chatsworth (just up the road for me) where seeing some of the Cerberas in person again brought back my 'boy hood memories'
So, instead of purchasing a 911 turbo or BMW M5 for the extreme amount they cost I am strongly thinking about a Cerbera and putting in an LS engine amongst other things like brakes, update the interior (e.g. retrim, race seats, satnav/good sound, rewire) and update the exterior like headlights and rear lights to bring them a bit more into the 21st century (obviously i am talking about subtle mods that won't be immediately apparent until you start to look closely). And hopefully give me a car for under the price of an M5/911 with just as good performance (and dare I say reliability, hmmm maybe not).
I do not want to deface the car - the mods I do are very small and enhance the look. I have modded a few bikes and the results I got actually filled my email inbox with fellow forum guys from all over the world wanting me to manufacture them so I must have done something right!!
Anyway, I have been reading the forums here and would like a bit more info on these LS conversions and if possible some kind of pricing. I am considering a full restoration (body off, chassis sorting, bushes, suspension, brakes, pipes etc) up to just the engine if everything else is ok.
I am looking for engine, electrical and drive train to be made 'reliable' so I can have trouble free motoring (I do a lot of road trips across Europe so the last thing I want is to be sat on the hard shoulder whilst my friends do laps of the Ring without me).
I also need to understand what kind of order things can be done e.g. if I do a body off, then when would be a good time do the engine? Would I have to do the body off, put the engine back in to then have it swapped again? If that makes sense as I would want to do as much of the labour intensive task to reduce cost, but appreciate the car would have to travel across the country to get various tasks done.
Any info or guidance would be appreciated from those who have done it and those who do it as a service. I am mechanically competent and don't by any means underestimate the scale of these tasks... even if you think I should just forget it and by the M5 and be a sheep!!
Thanks.
Now older I am having a slight midlife crisis and have considered buying a Cerbera to 'restore', 'update' and fit an engine that will cause me no issues (no offence to any hardcore TVR enthusiasts, trust me I have read many posts on here so I know this is a touchy subject!!).
My mate has a Sagaris and I went with to Chatsworth (just up the road for me) where seeing some of the Cerberas in person again brought back my 'boy hood memories'
So, instead of purchasing a 911 turbo or BMW M5 for the extreme amount they cost I am strongly thinking about a Cerbera and putting in an LS engine amongst other things like brakes, update the interior (e.g. retrim, race seats, satnav/good sound, rewire) and update the exterior like headlights and rear lights to bring them a bit more into the 21st century (obviously i am talking about subtle mods that won't be immediately apparent until you start to look closely). And hopefully give me a car for under the price of an M5/911 with just as good performance (and dare I say reliability, hmmm maybe not).
I do not want to deface the car - the mods I do are very small and enhance the look. I have modded a few bikes and the results I got actually filled my email inbox with fellow forum guys from all over the world wanting me to manufacture them so I must have done something right!!
Anyway, I have been reading the forums here and would like a bit more info on these LS conversions and if possible some kind of pricing. I am considering a full restoration (body off, chassis sorting, bushes, suspension, brakes, pipes etc) up to just the engine if everything else is ok.
I am looking for engine, electrical and drive train to be made 'reliable' so I can have trouble free motoring (I do a lot of road trips across Europe so the last thing I want is to be sat on the hard shoulder whilst my friends do laps of the Ring without me).
I also need to understand what kind of order things can be done e.g. if I do a body off, then when would be a good time do the engine? Would I have to do the body off, put the engine back in to then have it swapped again? If that makes sense as I would want to do as much of the labour intensive task to reduce cost, but appreciate the car would have to travel across the country to get various tasks done.
Any info or guidance would be appreciated from those who have done it and those who do it as a service. I am mechanically competent and don't by any means underestimate the scale of these tasks... even if you think I should just forget it and by the M5 and be a sheep!!
Thanks.
Buy the M5 and leave the poor Cerbie alone!!!
Seriously though, late cars are well built and don't cause many issues, the engines are strong (had three and never had engine issues with 4.5's) you don't need to change brakes, disc and pad upgrades if you really track it but nothing more and as for rewiring... there are lots of TVR bit to control windows etc that you'd never really be able to replace sensibly.
Maybe just buy a good car, drive it and see if it's really what you want as it's already quicker than an M5 but is SO different in character I can't see how you can compare the ownership experience.
Seriously though, late cars are well built and don't cause many issues, the engines are strong (had three and never had engine issues with 4.5's) you don't need to change brakes, disc and pad upgrades if you really track it but nothing more and as for rewiring... there are lots of TVR bit to control windows etc that you'd never really be able to replace sensibly.
Maybe just buy a good car, drive it and see if it's really what you want as it's already quicker than an M5 but is SO different in character I can't see how you can compare the ownership experience.
...maybe shouldn't have put the 911 and M5 reference, but my point was meant to be having something unique vs all the M5 replicas and ****heads in the porsches (again no offence to anyone as I have a mate who has a 911 and I currently own a BMW 545i sport lol )
and I currently own a BMW 545i sport lol )Edited by jimmysheff on Wednesday 27th May 22:35
Do a search for these body-off rebuilds;
Longbow's 4.2 - set the standard for bodyoff rebuilds IMHO.
Brummies 6.9 - First LS Cerb, thus far - the fastest proven - Nearer Mclaren F1 pace than BMW M5 pace.
Shpub's 5.7 - First conversion to be done to promote the conversion as a turn key package, pretty reasonably priced IMHO.
DiyCerbs ?.? Supercharged - first FI LS conversion, still in progress - but looking mighty.
I have no problem with people doing this conversion, but if you're considering doing this with a previously AJP powered car - please save that engine! If you can get a Sixer instead, that'll be less of a loss as there are more S6's out there in other models.
Longbow's 4.2 - set the standard for bodyoff rebuilds IMHO.
Brummies 6.9 - First LS Cerb, thus far - the fastest proven - Nearer Mclaren F1 pace than BMW M5 pace.
Shpub's 5.7 - First conversion to be done to promote the conversion as a turn key package, pretty reasonably priced IMHO.
DiyCerbs ?.? Supercharged - first FI LS conversion, still in progress - but looking mighty.
I have no problem with people doing this conversion, but if you're considering doing this with a previously AJP powered car - please save that engine! If you can get a Sixer instead, that'll be less of a loss as there are more S6's out there in other models.
BCA said:
I have no problem with people doing this conversion, but if you're considering doing this with a previously AJP powered car - please save that engine! If you can get a Sixer instead, that'll be less of a loss as there are more S6's out there in other models.
oh crikey I am offending people already 
. I was thinking 4.5 for gearbox and brakes to cope going off what I've read on here if this is no matter than a SP6 is the option...Edited by jimmysheff on Wednesday 27th May 22:43
Respect to the LS boys, they are the pathfinders, the innovators, the maverics, and I love them all. But!
For the past three years my 97, 4.5 AJP at 55,000 miles has proved bullet proof. It's routine is roughly: to work and back, take wife and kids to shops, off to the coast, blow some boy racers away, down to Lemans, off the Brands for a days racing, back to the shopping run, etc, etc, etc, repeat, repeat, repeat.
I always check the oil, water and clutch fluid and I change the oil more often than I need.
To me the AJP 4.5 is a beautiful brute.
Re the brakes, my MOT station said they were some of the most powerful brakes they had ever tested.
For the past three years my 97, 4.5 AJP at 55,000 miles has proved bullet proof. It's routine is roughly: to work and back, take wife and kids to shops, off to the coast, blow some boy racers away, down to Lemans, off the Brands for a days racing, back to the shopping run, etc, etc, etc, repeat, repeat, repeat.
I always check the oil, water and clutch fluid and I change the oil more often than I need.
To me the AJP 4.5 is a beautiful brute.
Re the brakes, my MOT station said they were some of the most powerful brakes they had ever tested.
I am in the same boat as you, finding the right car is difficult, but far worse than that for most people I think would be the fact that you would only get a fraction of the money you put into the project if you come to sell, and if Cerberas become classics then the car would be worth far less... For me its no issue as mine will be a keeper,
Just out of curiousity, if your looking to go the same way Brummmie went, I have a TKO600 and the right bellhousing etc to fit it to any of the LS engines, I might be considerring going down the TR-6060 box route for mine so the box might be available soon...
Just out of curiousity, if your looking to go the same way Brummmie went, I have a TKO600 and the right bellhousing etc to fit it to any of the LS engines, I might be considerring going down the TR-6060 box route for mine so the box might be available soon...
bosscerbera said:
Jimmysheff: Have you driven a sorted 4.5 AJP?
I drove a SP6 a few years back and was truly shocked at the way it put me back in my seat.. although back then I didn't have a 4.4 V8 bmw as my daily driver which is pretty quick (not in this league though) and I have had many v-twin superbikes so speed and torque has become 'the norm' hence me wanting to get as much uniqiueness and power from my small budget whilst I can.. so if I did any of this it would be a keeper as I wouldn't be able to get much else with these kind of figures.The only thing is that the SP6 I drove was my mates and in the 3 weeks of ownership (he traded) he sheared a rear driveshaft, lost a window surround panel and had electircal issues lol!! so this didn't help much with my opinion of reliability - but I understand that many people have had trouble free motoring but I have a heavy right foot so need that confidence.
My car is at Steve Heath (www.shpub.co.uk) for a LS conversion. A really nice sorted engineconversion where you have a lot of options.
The main goal with Steve's conversion was to offer an engineconversion for the same amount of money a rebuild of a AJP V8 would cost. I understand the purists and the AJP is a magnificent engine when it is on song and when it stays in one part. There are guys here on the forum getting good results with the AJP.
When my engine went bang. I took the decision to spend my money once and well. It might have been cheaper to rebuild my engine, but in 28000 miles my car had consumed 2 engines.
If I understand you well than buy a Cerbera Speed Six in a good condition but with bad engine. If I had to do it again I would do it that way. The Speedsixes are cheap te buy.
Your budget is your limit. You can order a LS2, LS3 or even a LS7 engine with the right gearbox. Steve works together with Dave Wallis who is doing the conversion in cooperation with Steve. Chassis restoration and other things are all well known territory for Steve and Dave.
Give Steve a call. I can really recommend these guys.
The main goal with Steve's conversion was to offer an engineconversion for the same amount of money a rebuild of a AJP V8 would cost. I understand the purists and the AJP is a magnificent engine when it is on song and when it stays in one part. There are guys here on the forum getting good results with the AJP.
When my engine went bang. I took the decision to spend my money once and well. It might have been cheaper to rebuild my engine, but in 28000 miles my car had consumed 2 engines.
If I understand you well than buy a Cerbera Speed Six in a good condition but with bad engine. If I had to do it again I would do it that way. The Speedsixes are cheap te buy.
Your budget is your limit. You can order a LS2, LS3 or even a LS7 engine with the right gearbox. Steve works together with Dave Wallis who is doing the conversion in cooperation with Steve. Chassis restoration and other things are all well known territory for Steve and Dave.
Give Steve a call. I can really recommend these guys.
You ought to have a look at this web site:
http://www.shengltd.com/tvrextras/docs/CerbLStrans...
But then you also ought to try an AJP V8 before you commit to a Yank V8 - at least the decision will be an informed one.
If you're not in any desperate rush, I'd be inclined to buy a tatty (cheap) 6 cylinder car and do a proper job on it - body off, rebush, retrim and respray. The gearbox can stay the same by changing the internals I believe - Steve Heath will confirm.
Good luck
http://www.shengltd.com/tvrextras/docs/CerbLStrans...
But then you also ought to try an AJP V8 before you commit to a Yank V8 - at least the decision will be an informed one.
If you're not in any desperate rush, I'd be inclined to buy a tatty (cheap) 6 cylinder car and do a proper job on it - body off, rebush, retrim and respray. The gearbox can stay the same by changing the internals I believe - Steve Heath will confirm.
Good luck
jimmysheff said:
bosscerbera said:
Jimmysheff: Have you driven a sorted 4.5 AJP?
I drove a SP6 a few years back and was truly shocked at the way it put me back in my seat.. although back then I didn't have a 4.4 V8 bmw as my daily driver which is pretty quick (not in this league though) and I have had many v-twin superbikes so speed and torque has become 'the norm' hence me wanting to get as much uniqiueness and power from my small budget whilst I can.. so if I did any of this it would be a keeper as I wouldn't be able to get much else with these kind of figures.The only thing is that the SP6 I drove was my mates and in the 3 weeks of ownership (he traded) he sheared a rear driveshaft, lost a window surround panel and had electircal issues lol!! so this didn't help much with my opinion of reliability - but I understand that many people have had trouble free motoring but I have a heavy right foot so need that confidence.
Serious Yank power (Brummie) gives an edge on the straights but it won't get you round the bends any faster than any other Cerbera - and a Cerbera WILL do the bends.
The reliability hunt with Yank power is unnecessary.
Its hideous.I can see your point jimmysheff on the LS, as said before, get one that's got a knackered engine that's going for a song and bring her back to life
I wouldn't ruin a good 4.5 as they are getting rare and would be a shame to take a good one off the road, but with a knackered engine I cant see why anyone would object, its still keeping a cerbera on the road at the end of the day, if my engine goes pop one day I would consider an LS, but probably couldn't bring myself to do it to my 4.5!
As for your electrics, the only real problems with the cerbera (as far as im aware) is the 100amp fuse that can be easily sorted, the door opening poppers, the electric windows and the electric mirrors.
All of these are easy fixes, i re-wired some of mine and the got some good heat shrink and is now all good, was just the cheap connectors that let it down!
I wouldn't ruin a good 4.5 as they are getting rare and would be a shame to take a good one off the road, but with a knackered engine I cant see why anyone would object, its still keeping a cerbera on the road at the end of the day, if my engine goes pop one day I would consider an LS, but probably couldn't bring myself to do it to my 4.5!
As for your electrics, the only real problems with the cerbera (as far as im aware) is the 100amp fuse that can be easily sorted, the door opening poppers, the electric windows and the electric mirrors.
All of these are easy fixes, i re-wired some of mine and the got some good heat shrink and is now all good, was just the cheap connectors that let it down!
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