for the sound guru's, advice on ohms wanted
Discussion
I have found a pioneer subwoofer with the following spec :
Its capable of running 4 ohm or 1 ohm
Maximum output power 1.000 Watt
Nominal output power 350 Watt
Frequency response 18 - 600 Hz
Sensitivity (1W/1m) 87 dB
Woofer size (cm) 25 cm
now I want to get an amp to run the sub, I want the amp to be able to power the sub without any shortfall.
I want the amp to be pioneer also.
Can someone tell me what I need to be looking for in an amp so that it suits the sub as best as possible, either a mono or 2 channel amp. Im on a tight budget so nothing over £200.
do i match the ohms, exceed the ohms of the sub, match the watts or the frequencies etc. I dont want the thread to get too technical with physics behind paralel, series wiring, ohms, frequencies etc, and i dont want to go onto a car audio forum and get brain washed with facts just to help me get an amp. if someone on here knows, could you please advise me simply like; amp of 4ohms, same or more watt rating for mono or 8ohm amp with half watt rating for bridging channel of 2 channel amp and so,
Its capable of running 4 ohm or 1 ohm
Maximum output power 1.000 Watt
Nominal output power 350 Watt
Frequency response 18 - 600 Hz
Sensitivity (1W/1m) 87 dB
Woofer size (cm) 25 cm
now I want to get an amp to run the sub, I want the amp to be able to power the sub without any shortfall.
I want the amp to be pioneer also.
Can someone tell me what I need to be looking for in an amp so that it suits the sub as best as possible, either a mono or 2 channel amp. Im on a tight budget so nothing over £200.
do i match the ohms, exceed the ohms of the sub, match the watts or the frequencies etc. I dont want the thread to get too technical with physics behind paralel, series wiring, ohms, frequencies etc, and i dont want to go onto a car audio forum and get brain washed with facts just to help me get an amp. if someone on here knows, could you please advise me simply like; amp of 4ohms, same or more watt rating for mono or 8ohm amp with half watt rating for bridging channel of 2 channel amp and so,
Its been a while since i did any ICE installs 
For running a sub you need either a MONO amp or a stereo amp that can be bridged.
The amp needs to be capable of running down to 1 ohm.
You dont want to exceed the power capability of the speaker or you will damage it, so if its has a 300w RMS rating then a mono amp needs a max 300w RMS output or a stereo bridged amp needs a max output of 150W RMS per channel.
The peak power of the speaker is meaningless.
If you get a specific sub amplifier then they usualy have a crossover built in to supply the correct frequency to the sub. If not then you need a crossover also so that you only send the sub frequencies to the sub
I have no idea what pioneer have to offer but i hope the rest was helpfull.
For running a sub you need either a MONO amp or a stereo amp that can be bridged.
The amp needs to be capable of running down to 1 ohm.
You dont want to exceed the power capability of the speaker or you will damage it, so if its has a 300w RMS rating then a mono amp needs a max 300w RMS output or a stereo bridged amp needs a max output of 150W RMS per channel.
The peak power of the speaker is meaningless.
If you get a specific sub amplifier then they usualy have a crossover built in to supply the correct frequency to the sub. If not then you need a crossover also so that you only send the sub frequencies to the sub
I have no idea what pioneer have to offer but i hope the rest was helpfull.
OK, well I disagree with a lot of what headcase says.
Pretty much without fail you want to get an amp that can chuck out more clean power than your sub can take. A 50W clipping (overdriven amp) will kill a "500W sub" quickly. Putting 650W of clean power through that sub and you'll be almost guaranteed fine.
The sub you are looking at must be a dual 2 ohm sub.
As you say you can either set that up as a 1 or 4 ohm load..... or 2X2 ohm, which is what I would do unless you have a regulated amp, but then you'd need to 'scope' the outputs too...... actually you are best off just playing safe and running 4 ohms
No mono amp at your pricepoint will play into 1 ohm (it will kill the amp)
I'd get a nice powerful 2 channel amp, and bridge it into your 4 ohm load (or 2*2 chanell and scope, but as the one I'm recommending is regulated you may aswell bridge it for simplicity).
http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/dynamics-s2002-spe...
Something like this will give you 300W into your 4ohm load. The benefit is that as it's an ok 2 channell amp, if you change plans in the future you can use it to power stereo component etc. so it's quite versatile.
.. of course if you look 2nd hand you can pick something else up for better money...
http://www.talkaudio.co.uk/vbb/showthread.php?t=29... ... but this will blow your sub if you crank it
but seriously
http://www.talkaudio.co.uk/vbb/showthread.php?t=29...
buy that, wilfy's a good lad, that amp will more than suit sub needs.
Pretty much without fail you want to get an amp that can chuck out more clean power than your sub can take. A 50W clipping (overdriven amp) will kill a "500W sub" quickly. Putting 650W of clean power through that sub and you'll be almost guaranteed fine.
The sub you are looking at must be a dual 2 ohm sub.
As you say you can either set that up as a 1 or 4 ohm load..... or 2X2 ohm, which is what I would do unless you have a regulated amp, but then you'd need to 'scope' the outputs too...... actually you are best off just playing safe and running 4 ohms
No mono amp at your pricepoint will play into 1 ohm (it will kill the amp)
I'd get a nice powerful 2 channel amp, and bridge it into your 4 ohm load (or 2*2 chanell and scope, but as the one I'm recommending is regulated you may aswell bridge it for simplicity).
http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/dynamics-s2002-spe...
Something like this will give you 300W into your 4ohm load. The benefit is that as it's an ok 2 channell amp, if you change plans in the future you can use it to power stereo component etc. so it's quite versatile.
.. of course if you look 2nd hand you can pick something else up for better money...
http://www.talkaudio.co.uk/vbb/showthread.php?t=29... ... but this will blow your sub if you crank it
but seriously
http://www.talkaudio.co.uk/vbb/showthread.php?t=29...
buy that, wilfy's a good lad, that amp will more than suit sub needs.
Edited by stuthemong on Sunday 7th June 19:58
You seem to agree with most of what i said Your not worried about overdriving the sub? that would be my main concern. I totally agree with what you say about a clipping amp killing the speaker, I have been away from the ice market for a long while but even when i was active only the cheapest of the cheap amps would actually clip, most of them had a little circuit to stop that happening just by stopping you from overdriving it, i even added that to an amp i made myself ( i was just assuming that wasnt a factor any more, sorry)
Your not worried about overdriving the sub? that would be my main concern. I totally agree with what you say about a clipping amp killing the speaker, I have been away from the ice market for a long while but even when i was active only the cheapest of the cheap amps would actually clip, most of them had a little circuit to stop that happening just by stopping you from overdriving it, i even added that to an amp i made myself ( i was just assuming that wasnt a factor any more, sorry)Edited by headcase on Sunday 7th June 20:39
Ish. but a stereo 1oh stable won't do it either, as if you bridge that you show it 0.5 ohm
It's pretty much impossible to damage a good sub by overpowering it in my experience, you don't always have to give it 100% either, having that 'headroom' is what keeps you from blowing it when a transient comes in, most amps don't have anti-clipping features from what I have seen either really
It's pretty much impossible to damage a good sub by overpowering it in my experience, you don't always have to give it 100% either, having that 'headroom' is what keeps you from blowing it when a transient comes in, most amps don't have anti-clipping features from what I have seen either really
Three things:
The amp must be capable of running at the impedance of the speaker. If the speaker is a lower impedance than the amp is capable of it will either shut itself down or blow up.
You want the wattage that the amp delivers (at the impedance of the speaker) to be more than the actual rating of the speaker, otherwise the amp will clip before you get any indication of the speaker reaching its limits. Not massively more, though, maybe a factor of 10/15%.
The amp needs a nice fat power supply, in order to be able to deliver sustained signals at low frequencies. You tend to see large capacitors involved in large ICE installs to assist with this. You should also use decent quality cable between the amp and speaker, leaving it as short as possible.
If you have a dual voice coil speaker, then the wiring is different, but principles remain the same.
The amp must be capable of running at the impedance of the speaker. If the speaker is a lower impedance than the amp is capable of it will either shut itself down or blow up.
You want the wattage that the amp delivers (at the impedance of the speaker) to be more than the actual rating of the speaker, otherwise the amp will clip before you get any indication of the speaker reaching its limits. Not massively more, though, maybe a factor of 10/15%.
The amp needs a nice fat power supply, in order to be able to deliver sustained signals at low frequencies. You tend to see large capacitors involved in large ICE installs to assist with this. You should also use decent quality cable between the amp and speaker, leaving it as short as possible.
If you have a dual voice coil speaker, then the wiring is different, but principles remain the same.
All to do with heat and limits of travel of the speaker cone - whilst it's moving the voice coil stays cool - if it get's held at an extreme either by clipped audio or (more likely to do damage) a clean signal beyond speakers limits the voice coil gets hot. When it gets too hot the lacquer on the winding melts and you end up with a frozen cone after it cools down again.
Edited by smash on Monday 8th June 09:17
(Most random off-topic question ever coming up...)
"Frozen cone" - do you mean that the shorted voice coil resulting from the burned off lacquer then results in the cone effectively becoming physically locked solid in the field of its magnet when a signal is applied?
I bought a cheapo garden pump off fleabay a while back and the motor armature spins freely before you try and switch it on whereupon it then locks up solid. The only thing I could think of was that the windings are somehow shorted. Same thing?
(Sorry. Please feel free to continue with your original conversation!)
"Frozen cone" - do you mean that the shorted voice coil resulting from the burned off lacquer then results in the cone effectively becoming physically locked solid in the field of its magnet when a signal is applied?
I bought a cheapo garden pump off fleabay a while back and the motor armature spins freely before you try and switch it on whereupon it then locks up solid. The only thing I could think of was that the windings are somehow shorted. Same thing?
(Sorry. Please feel free to continue with your original conversation!)
Edited by DaveR on Monday 8th June 17:24
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