Starter Motor Woes

[crazymatelot]

Like a few of the guys on here I was having pronblems with the starter motor, it would screech not engage etc. So last week I replaced the "clutch" i.e. the two cog gearing which engages with the flywheel. Everything has been tickety boo, until now. Now when I press the go button all I get is a spinning noise and a rattle. Does this mean that the Solenoid has now given up the ghost?

[Ireland]

It sounds like it could have.

When mine started to act up I just bit the bullet and went for a new one.

Once I'd checked the procedure (and lack of space) involved in changing it I reckoned the most sensible route was to change it and (hopefully) only have to do it once.

[crazymatelot]

Just a word of warning to all you Cerb PH ers. I have recently changed the bendix/clutch on my starter motor because it was screeching. All went well for two days, then the next time I tried to start all I get is a whirring noise. I take the starter motor out again, and find that this time the solenoid has given up in the engaged position. Result, one completely knackered starter motor. So I buy a new one, the difference is tremendous, I suspect that the old starter was really tired anyway, because the new just spins the engine like a top, it's incredible. Just one other note, when I took the "Original" starter motor out, I noticed that the bolts were different sizes, no matter I thought, that is until the new unit arrived then I saw what had happened. Someone in the past has stripped one of the bolt holes and instead of doing the job properly and having a helicoil insert has simply over bored and cut a new thread, so instead of being an M10 it's now an M12. I had to bore one of the starter motor mounting holes to make it fit, complicating the job even further. I've been thinking that if I have to take the starter out again, it might be easier to mount it on studs instead of with bolts, because it can be a right pain lining the holes up. Any reasons why this won't work?

[ridds]

What a pain that has been!

As for the studs, you could do, do you reckon there's enough clearance to get the starter over them between the body and the bell housing? I thought it was a bit tight.

[jonbarrett]

I was having starter problems and when I went to remove it it came away in my hand: one bolt was loose and the other stripped!!

I repaired mine with a Timesert: www.timesert.com. These are the babies to use. Full thread, expands and locks into bore, shoulder for exact positioning and no tang to break off and drop into the clutch.

To afford the job I imported the Timesert kit from the US via ebay. Took some time to get but well worth it. I wish I had taken some pics.

[crazymatelot]

jonbarrett said:

I was having starter problems and when I went to remove it it came away in my hand: one bolt was loose and the other stripped!!

I repaired mine with a Timesert: www.timesert.com.

thanks for the tip John, how easy were they to use? and did you fix in situ or did you have to drop the gearbox? If they are easy to use I'll buy a kit for future use.

[crazymatelot]

ridds said:

What a pain that has been!

As for the studs, you could do, do you reckon there's enough clearance to get the starter over them between the body and the bell housing? I thought it was a bit tight.

Yeah there's more than enough room to fit studs. I used a smaller gauge of threaded bar to assist in lining it up and holding it in place whilst I put the first bolt in, it was the only way I could do it only being able to get one hand down the back of the engine at one time. Once I did that it went in pretty easily. But two studs would be better, the only consideration would be room to get a socket or spanner on the nut.

[jonbarrett]

I did the job with the gearbox in place. If you have some basic engineering experience and access to good tools (I recall using a dril bit extension) it's relatively easy.

The biggest problem was stopping swarf falling into the clutch. I cut some cardboard strips designed to slide between the clutch and inner bell housing via the starter motor opening. I sprayed the strips with carpet adhesive before sliding them in and the swarf stuck to the cardboard as i drilled the hole out. All I had to do was pull the cardboard out from time to time and brush the swarf off.

Timeserts are mega expensive via UK tool shops. In the end I imported them from the US. I have no idea why the price is so different. I always try and buy UK but this time the price differential was too great. They did get stuck in customs for a couple of weeks and there was a bit of duty to pay. Still worth it though.

A solid starter motor and new big fuse (better charging) has transformed the starting, virtually turns the car on its side when you press the button.

[crazymatelot]

I watched the video promotion, and it does look quite easy, I might import one of the metric kits. They look useful for a number of things. Anyway thanks for the info, much appreciated.

[crazymatelot]

Update to starter problems.

When the new starter motor works it is great. There is however one little problem, that is when the car is hot and I've parked up somewhere, perhaps I've just popped out for some milk. When I try to start, all that happens is that the solenoid clicks. This can go on for 5 or 6 goes. sometimes if I simply turn off then turn on again whe will fire up, other times I have to wait a while, has anybody else experienced this? It's as if the main switch in the solenoid does not like heat. It couldn't be the immobiliser syistem could it, since switching off and then switching on again sometimes makes the starter motor work. I should add that when I fitted the starter motor, I thoroughly cleaned all contacts on the battery and on the starter motor. I just can't believe that this is happening.

[ridds]

What motor is it. I'm sure people have reported problems like that previously with new starters.

[crazymatelot]

ridds said:

What motor is it. I'm sure people have reported problems like that previously with new starters.

The starter motor was supplied by Universal Rotating Electrics Ltd from Basildon. It's apparantly a Cerb 4.2/4.5 unit, and does seem to do the job very well when it engages.

[slowtypa]

Crazymatelot,

Get your local starter motor/alternator repairer to machine a couple of thou' off of

the solenoid plunger.Heat expansion causes them to stick!

Ray

Edited by slowtypa on Tuesday 18th August 13:25

Edited by slowtypa on Tuesday 18th August 13:25

[jammy_basturd]

As aligning up the starter with the bolt holes, surely easier than fitting studs would be to just use a mirror?

[crazymatelot]

slowtypa said:

Crazymatelot,

Get your local starter motor/alternator repairer to machine a couple of thou' off of

the solenoid plunger.Heat expansion causes them to stick!

Ray

Edited by slowtypa on Tuesday 18th August 13:25

Edited by slowtypa on Tuesday 18th August 13:25

Thanks for the advice will do as soon as I get time to sort it.

[crazymatelot]

jammy_basturd said:

As aligning up the starter with the bolt holes, surely easier than fitting studs would be to just use a mirror?

I can only get one hand in at a time. what would I hold the mirror with? The problem is the balance in the starter. as soon as you let go it tilts backwards because that is where the weight is. I find a short length of threaded bar holds it enough for me to put a bolt in the other side fairly easily, otherwise it really is a frustrating b*****d of a job.