TVR CERBERA 4.2 LITRE V8 Gear Selection Problem

[iamtheimprezaman]

Hi,

I have owned a cerbera 4.2l v8 for 6 months now and have had a lot of problems with it.

The car had a new clutch in 2003 but only a few miles ago (approx 6000) and I have been told by my garage that it needs another one which I find hard to believe. It has had a new clutch slave cylinder less than 1000 miles ago, new dohc 5.1 race fluid as it keeps cooking the dohc 4 which I don't think it used to do before the gearbox was removed.

My number is 0784007375 if you have any tip on what it could be or email me as at the moment I face a very expensive bill which I don't think is justified.

Thanks

Paul

[BLUETHUNDER]

sounds like the fingers have gone .

[iamtheimprezaman]

How much is this likely to cost me? And what part would I need?

Many thanks

Paul

[high52kojak]

What would cause the fluid to boil?

[esso]

Have you checked the master cylinder?I had a similar problem recently and it was the master cylinder at fault,i only replaced it 2 years ago.Here is what i would do:-
1.Bleed the clutch,preferably with a pressurised bleeding kit(Easibleed)
2.If it wont bleed your master cylinder is shot,replace it.(Check your not getting fluid in the drivers footwell also)
3.Adjust the clutch pedal travel,this is done on the nut on the threaded rod behind the clutch pedal.
If this doesn`t work,check your not losing fluid under the car,if so your slave cylinder seals are gone,failing that its a clutch issue.
Never heard of the fluid boiling before,only under racing conditions.

Edited by esso on Thursday 3rd September 20:13

[FarmyardPants]

iamtheimprezaman said:

Hi,

I have owned a cerbera 4.2l v8 for 6 months now and have had a lot of problems with it.

The car had a new clutch in 2003 but only a few miles ago (approx 6000) and I have been told by my garage that it needs another one which I find hard to believe. It has had a new clutch slave cylinder less than 1000 miles ago, new dohc 5.1 race fluid as it keeps cooking the dohc 4 which I don't think it used to do before the gearbox was removed.

My number is 0784007375 if you have any tip on what it could be or email me as at the moment I face a very expensive bill which I don't think is justified.

Thanks

Paul

The clutches usually last 20k odd miles, but then 2003 is 6 years ago. The main modes of failure are slave cylinder seals, master cylinder seals, and broken fingers on the clutch plate. They all have similar symptoms - clutch pedal has little resistance and doesn't disengage so can't select gears.

If the master fails you usually get clutch fluid in the driver's footwell. It is quite easy to change, and being quite cheap, most people recommend you change the whole thing rather than buy a seal kit. A bit fiddly but very DIYable. Cost ~£100 if you do it yourself I think.

Slave failure means fluid under the car (or around the bellhousing/gearbox). A new seal kit is cheap (as are the slaves themselves) but the labour is the killer because the gearbox has to come off. 2-3 hours labour plus parts.

Finger failure is harder to diagnose as there are no obvious symptoms other than lack of clutch function. The pedal feels almost normal but you cannot engage gears. The cost for a new clutch pack, including fitting, new/recon slave and VAT is around the £1K mark.

If the master seems ok you could commission the gearbox to be removed and the clutch inspected and proceed from there. If the fingers aren't broken and the clutch not too worn you could go for the slave. It could still be the slave as these fail on a regular basis.

HTH

[iamtheimprezaman]

If the fingers have gone as the slave cylinder and master cylinder have been replaced within the last 6-8 months and therefore I don't think are the problem, would I need a whole clutch or can I buy the plate with fingers?

[touching cloth]

I wonder if the car has stood for a while, 6000 miles in the last 6 years is not much and it may well have been more like 3000 pa for 2 years and then stood for 4 (as an example) rather than 1k per year. If so then yes there is a good chance you will have problems generally with things that have seized and corroded etc. Clutch could well have seized and been freed off but ultimately suffered in the process. Do you have service history for 2003 - present, regardless of mileage it should still have seen a service every 12 months, this might shed more light on recent usage.

[iamtheimprezaman]

The car hasn't done many miles in the last 6 years and neither has the entire car overall having only covered 26,000 miles since 1997 so about 2,000 miles per year which is more than I've managed to achieve with it being in the garage for so much.

[FarmyardPants]

iamtheimprezaman said:

If the fingers have gone as the slave cylinder and master cylinder have been replaced within the last 6-8 months and therefore I don't think are the problem, would I need a whole clutch or can I buy the plate with fingers?

It's not unheard of for the slave to last only six months. The clutch pack is new plate, bearings (maybe slave also, not sure) but if the fingers have gone it's 1k or so all in. The fingers are part of the clutch (plate) itself which is the expensive part. At least if it comes to that the clutch itself should last you a good while. These cars tend to be mostly small niggly problems most of the time but every now and then you'll get a bigger bill, just comes with the territory I'm afraid..

[Soovy]

iamtheimprezaman said:

The car hasn't done many miles in the last 6 years and neither has the entire car overall having only covered 26,000 miles since 1997

Without wishing to be unkind, I think you're finding out why.

Gorgeous cars, but 5,000 quid a year needed to run one unless you're lucky.

[stuthemong]

I think 5K would be on the unlucky side of things as a long term average, 'soov. That's full chassis off rebuild money to be honest, and I hope to not have to do that each year !!

EDIT: of course... if you chucked it at a london garage and say 'fix it' each time a niggle develops @£120/hr labour, then yes, maybe you are bang on the money actually

Edited by stuthemong on Thursday 3rd September 21:06

[Byker28i]

high52kojak said:

What would cause the fluid to boil?

It happenened to me I think on the original London Thunder after 3 hours of traffic the cats heated the gearbox almost to the point the gearleaver was very hot. I got out at piccadilly to take photo's of the convoy and when I got back in my foot went to the floor. Vigorous pumping got it back enough to drive but I had tokeep my foot slightly on the clutch pedal. Once the car cooled on the A40 it was fine again.

I bled out the clutch fluid and it was filthy. Not had the problem again.

[WIL35]

high52kojak said:

What would cause the fluid to boil?

......and what are the symptoms of boiling fluid?

Is 'The Garage' mentioned by the OP one of the recognised reputable indies?

[ridds]

I'm beginning to think there is a major design flaw with the slave cylinders.

I replace my seals 2 years ago and have done a good 5-6000 miles since with no issues.

I took the Cerb to Weymouth over the BH weekend and when putting it away yesterday after doing some work I thought he pedal felt a little odd.

Managed to get it into the garage and checked the fluid, ALL gone. It's definitely not the Master as there's no leaks there. I topped the fluid up and crudely bled the system (literally opened the bleed screw and let 2 pumps out) and it's back to normal. No black bits suggesting seal failure and no puddles under the car.

I'm tempted to do a little test and go and drive it around the local town for a good few hours and monitor the fluid level to see if it is affected by temperature.

I can only assume that the outer sleeve expands too much and causes the fluid leak.

I also have cats fitted and on 2 occasions over the weekend the gear lever got too hot to touch.

[stuthemong]

ridds,

I was talking to a member at the cambs meet a few weeks back (I foget his name, sorry) and he is convinced that proximity of cats to gearbox->slave is just too close. Cats cause gearbox oil to get very very hot, and accelerate slave deteriation. I'm probably going to remove my sports exhaust, get a std 4.2 or 4.5 and decat for this reason (think my cats are getting leggy too, so cures 3 birds with one stone. Third bird being more pops and bangs )

Stu

[FarmyardPants]

ridds said:

I'm beginning to think there is a major design flaw with the slave cylinders.

I replace my seals 2 years ago and have done a good 5-6000 miles since with no issues.

I took the Cerb to Weymouth over the BH weekend and when putting it away yesterday after doing some work I thought he pedal felt a little odd.

Managed to get it into the garage and checked the fluid, ALL gone. It's definitely not the Master as there's no leaks there. I topped the fluid up and crudely bled the system (literally opened the bleed screw and let 2 pumps out) and it's back to normal. No black bits suggesting seal failure and no puddles under the car.

I'm tempted to do a little test and go and drive it around the local town for a good few hours and monitor the fluid level to see if it is affected by temperature.

I can only assume that the outer sleeve expands too much and causes the fluid leak.

I also have cats fitted and on 2 occasions over the weekend the gear lever got too hot to touch.

The chaps at Racing Green say that whenever they take the slave seals out they are double the size that they were when they went in, as though they react with the fluid (probably heat being a factor). I agree there is a serious flaw with them.

[ridds]

Yep, although I believe I have seals of uprated material as supplied to me by APM.

I could have gotten that wrong though.

I think I'm going to pull my cats out again. it's all a little odd though. I'm sure there are cars out there running cats that aren't suffering from this specific problem.

Clutches really are the Achilles heal of these cars imho.

[Gazzab]

Ridds - have you looked at the raceproved stuff?

[ridds]

Yeah I've looked at it. Can't justify spending that sort of money though.

Mine should work and there must be a reason for the failures. I'd rather find the problem and fix it than just replace a very expensive bit of metal.