4.5 LW differencs and actual weight!
Discussion
After deciding against my old 4.2 on grounds of cost/value and paint job (utterly amazing) I thought I'd try and find my ideal Cerbera which is a 4.5, well looked after, RR or LW...
So LW, I remember reading about these when they came out, and also that they were actually not that light. Can anyone give me a list of what was different between a LW and a std 4.5. And how heavy they really are??
Also, pod headlamps, are they any good...?
TVR changed them in 02, I recall the lights got blended, what else?
Finally, what are they changing hands for?
Cheers
D
PS If anyone can point me at a buyers guide I'll leave you all alone for a bit
So LW, I remember reading about these when they came out, and also that they were actually not that light. Can anyone give me a list of what was different between a LW and a std 4.5. And how heavy they really are??
Also, pod headlamps, are they any good...?
TVR changed them in 02, I recall the lights got blended, what else?
Finally, what are they changing hands for?
Cheers
D
PS If anyone can point me at a buyers guide I'll leave you all alone for a bit
They arent lighter at all, they should really just be seen as a facelift or possibly a MKII.
I recently bought a Red Rose 4.5 2002. I am pleased with the cars fit n finish, seems better than 98/99 cars (having owned 2 of them before) and the chassis is excellent (it seems that MAYBE later chassis are better treated than the middle years).
Looking at recent ads for such cars then I think you have to pay £20K plus for an excellent 2002 4.5RR? Am sure there are some cheaper ones now and again but that seems the price point?
ps the Red Rose was a rip off upgrade for a skimmed head and a different map! But as a 2nd hand buy I think the premium is ok. They wont be as powerful as a remapped standard 4.5 but out the box they are more powerful than a standard 4.5. With a remap one would expect the 440 to be achieved?!? I suspect without a remap they are knocking on 380 plus? But thats a guess.
I recently bought a Red Rose 4.5 2002. I am pleased with the cars fit n finish, seems better than 98/99 cars (having owned 2 of them before) and the chassis is excellent (it seems that MAYBE later chassis are better treated than the middle years).
Looking at recent ads for such cars then I think you have to pay £20K plus for an excellent 2002 4.5RR? Am sure there are some cheaper ones now and again but that seems the price point?
ps the Red Rose was a rip off upgrade for a skimmed head and a different map! But as a 2nd hand buy I think the premium is ok. They wont be as powerful as a remapped standard 4.5 but out the box they are more powerful than a standard 4.5. With a remap one would expect the 440 to be achieved?!? I suspect without a remap they are knocking on 380 plus? But thats a guess.
Edited by Gazzab on Wednesday 23 September 21:18
davidd said:
After deciding against my old 4.2 on grounds of cost/value and paint job (utterly amazing) I thought I'd try and find my ideal Cerbera which is a 4.5, well looked after, RR or LW...
So LW, I remember reading about these when they came out, and also that they were actually not that light. Can anyone give me a list of what was different between a LW and a std 4.5. And how heavy they really are??
Also, pod headlamps, are they any good...?
TVR changed them in 02, I recall the lights got blended, what else?
Finally, what are they changing hands for?
Cheers
D
PS If anyone can point me at a buyers guide I'll leave you all alone for a bit
The LW supposedly had lighter panels, I'm guessing the bonnet and boot only though. They also removed the sun visors So LW, I remember reading about these when they came out, and also that they were actually not that light. Can anyone give me a list of what was different between a LW and a std 4.5. And how heavy they really are??
Also, pod headlamps, are they any good...?
TVR changed them in 02, I recall the lights got blended, what else?
Finally, what are they changing hands for?
Cheers
D
PS If anyone can point me at a buyers guide I'll leave you all alone for a bit
Whether there were any other savings I'm unsure, but it's quite well known that the lightweights aren't substantially lighter, if at all. Similarly, I don't know why they would be heavier? Interior materials one would think?There are a few guys on here who have taken their cars on the weighbridge, IIRC they were circa 1100kgs.
The Red Roses had some porting work and slightly higher compression together with the 'octane switch' as it happens, I don't ever recall seeing power figures from a RR, so would be interested....
Given the 4.5 mapping appears to be pretty piss poor from the factory compared to the 4.2s, it's possible the RRs aren't great either..who knows...
Am interested to hear information myself.
LWs are about from around £15k through to £22k the Red Roses from £18k to £25k (recently)
Most of the above is true. They are no lighter.
However the standard RR map is reportedly better than the standard 4.5 map which is probably why Gazzab noticed a difference. He is certainly correct that the engine changes aren't worth much. FWIW I am not convinced that my octane switch even works!
The main difference with the LW's is the 'thinner' roll bar at the front resulting in slightly better forward visibility. The dashboard windscreen vents are different too and work well but then so did the ones on my old cerb.
IMO the newer lights front and rear were a big improvement, but these can be retrofitted easily. And then there are the Tuscan seats, which seem to divide opinion, but I prefer them.
Also the 'font' on the instruments (particularly the speedo and rev counter) are different and IMO much better. The old ones looked a little 'nautical' for my taste.
Phew! Anything I missed?
Edit: Although most of these features arrived on the 2000 models in true TVR style some of these changes filtered in over period so not all cars have all the features (in mix and match stylee).
However the standard RR map is reportedly better than the standard 4.5 map which is probably why Gazzab noticed a difference. He is certainly correct that the engine changes aren't worth much. FWIW I am not convinced that my octane switch even works!
The main difference with the LW's is the 'thinner' roll bar at the front resulting in slightly better forward visibility. The dashboard windscreen vents are different too and work well but then so did the ones on my old cerb.
IMO the newer lights front and rear were a big improvement, but these can be retrofitted easily. And then there are the Tuscan seats, which seem to divide opinion, but I prefer them.
Also the 'font' on the instruments (particularly the speedo and rev counter) are different and IMO much better. The old ones looked a little 'nautical' for my taste.
Phew! Anything I missed?
Edit: Although most of these features arrived on the 2000 models in true TVR style some of these changes filtered in over period so not all cars have all the features (in mix and match stylee).
Edited by ro_butler on Thursday 24th September 11:30
There's actually some debate over exactly what LW stands for - AFAIK the only place the word "lightweight" actually appears is in some press materials around the time of the model revision.
Some people suggest that LW actually stands for "Large Windscreen", as they swapped over to a slightly taller screen at the same time.
AFAIK, the LWs are actually marginally heavier than the earlier cars (50-100kg), despite having some lighter panels.
Some people suggest that LW actually stands for "Large Windscreen", as they swapped over to a slightly taller screen at the same time.
AFAIK, the LWs are actually marginally heavier than the earlier cars (50-100kg), despite having some lighter panels.
Thanks people, good info (as I would expect).
So, can someone tell me, how good are the pod headlights? any idea how much to blend them in?
Also, I know there was a revision in 02 (the rear number plate was recessed then I think) can anyone tell me what else changed at this time?
Cheers
D
So, can someone tell me, how good are the pod headlights? any idea how much to blend them in?
Also, I know there was a revision in 02 (the rear number plate was recessed then I think) can anyone tell me what else changed at this time?
Cheers
D
Many of the things mentioned are on all post-2000 Cerberas (ie. those sometimes called Mk2s) not just 4.5LW cars. This includes colour coded A-pillars, colour coded rear trim, new windsceen, different roof shape, new rear lights, new dash vents, Tuscan seats, new style speedo & rev-counter with digi-bits etc. My 2001 S6 has all these.
Post-2002 Cerbs have angled top-lit rear number plates and very slightly redesigned fronts. Mk2 4.5s have Tuscan style lights but these were intially still in pods. It would seem very late 4.2 and S6 cars had these too but so many cars of all ages have had this conversion it's difficult to tell. Some later cars also have larger drilled disc brakes (including mine) but I don't know if this was standard after a time to fit in with the T-cars....
Post-2002 Cerbs have angled top-lit rear number plates and very slightly redesigned fronts. Mk2 4.5s have Tuscan style lights but these were intially still in pods. It would seem very late 4.2 and S6 cars had these too but so many cars of all ages have had this conversion it's difficult to tell. Some later cars also have larger drilled disc brakes (including mine) but I don't know if this was standard after a time to fit in with the T-cars....
Edited by YKB on Thursday 24th September 17:57
YKB said:
Some later cars also have larger drilled disc brakes (including mine) but I don't know if this was standard after a time to fit in with the T-cars....
My understanding is that 4.5 Cerbs had the same size rotors from 97 through to the end but that the later 4.5 rotors were the one piece ones from T-cars ie the drilled tuscan s items? (there earlier being the separate bells versions from AP).I am not sure about 4.2s and S6s but I assume that they both had smaller disks until 18 inch spiders became standard fitment (or shortly thereafter) and so this allowed the fitting of the larger T-car brakes per the 4.5.
Gazzab said:
They arent lighter at all, they should really just be seen as a facelift or possibly a MKII.
I recently bought a Red Rose 4.5 2002. I am pleased with the cars fit n finish, seems better than 98/99 cars (having owned 2 of them before) and the chassis is excellent (it seems that MAYBE later chassis are better treated than the middle years).
Looking at recent ads for such cars then I think you have to pay £20K plus for an excellent 2002 4.5RR? Am sure there are some cheaper ones now and again but that seems the price point?
ps the Red Rose was a rip off upgrade for a skimmed head and a different map! But as a 2nd hand buy I think the premium is ok. They wont be as powerful as a remapped standard 4.5 but out the box they are more powerful than a standard 4.5. With a remap one would expect the 440 to be achieved?!? I suspect without a remap they are knocking on 380 plus? But thats a guess.
Hi Gazzab,I recently bought a Red Rose 4.5 2002. I am pleased with the cars fit n finish, seems better than 98/99 cars (having owned 2 of them before) and the chassis is excellent (it seems that MAYBE later chassis are better treated than the middle years).
Looking at recent ads for such cars then I think you have to pay £20K plus for an excellent 2002 4.5RR? Am sure there are some cheaper ones now and again but that seems the price point?
ps the Red Rose was a rip off upgrade for a skimmed head and a different map! But as a 2nd hand buy I think the premium is ok. They wont be as powerful as a remapped standard 4.5 but out the box they are more powerful than a standard 4.5. With a remap one would expect the 440 to be achieved?!? I suspect without a remap they are knocking on 380 plus? But thats a guess.
Edited by Gazzab on Wednesday 23 September 21:18
The Red Rose cars should make as standard between 395 and 410 bhp without any tinkering. Mine was running 398 when I first got it but it significantly improved after Automedon set it up, (for free - it was only in for a service!), although I have never had it back on a rolling road to see what the actual bhp improvement was.
I'm told very few genuine Lightweight cars were ever made and that the panels were thinned to the degree that you could push them in and out with your thumb. I think many of the cars advertised as 'Lightweights' are actually the post 2002 facelift cars.
Hope you're having fun with your new toy!
The short answer is that I am not really sure, I would like the paint to be black, blue, silver, white or possibly purple, as for the interior, not red! I'd like something quite plan, black, grey or the like...
However the mechanicals and history are more important, hence the question about the interior...
D
However the mechanicals and history are more important, hence the question about the interior...
D
LW or lightweight's as they're known in TVR circles, are generally heavier Cerberas that are held together with better/more glue and velcro... they're meant to have some trick lightweight composite bonnets, but I reckon its more of a composite fibreglass glue/velcro type thing going on.
In truth, as with any Cerbera of any age - they're all very different cars individually, but the LW's do tend to come in at heavier weights for some reason? Gazzab's comments about general build/ potential chassis longevity are quite positive though, even a heavy Cerb is still a very light car.
In truth, as with any Cerbera of any age - they're all very different cars individually, but the LW's do tend to come in at heavier weights for some reason? Gazzab's comments about general build/ potential chassis longevity are quite positive though, even a heavy Cerb is still a very light car.
davidd said:
The short answer is that I am not really sure, I would like the paint to be black, blue, silver, white or possibly purple, as for the interior, not red! I'd like something quite plan, black, grey or the like...
However the mechanicals and history are more important, hence the question about the interior...
D
Mine isnt bright red, more oxblood. It is an amazing interior and much nicer than all the creams and blacks (IMHO - having owned 2 magnolia and 1 black interior TVR). If you look at the Ferrari on the front of Evo mag my Cerb has the same interior and exterior colours. However the mechanicals and history are more important, hence the question about the interior...
D
davidd said:
Excellent info chaps, please keep it coming.
I suspect I am not going to get the exact spec I want, so can anyone tell me how hard it is to swap the interior?
And if anyone is thinking of selling please get in touch..
Cheers
D
David,I suspect I am not going to get the exact spec I want, so can anyone tell me how hard it is to swap the interior?
And if anyone is thinking of selling please get in touch..
Cheers
D
My 4.5 rr is up for sale at the moment, if you would like to give me your e mail address, please send to mick@gascoynes.com
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