6 cylinders - quick question
Discussion
Lets say you take your cerb to a very reputable tvr garage and they tell you it's been running on 6 cylinders for a good period of time.
Would this not be something you would notice? Or is there a chance that if it has always been this way you may not have realised..?
Now i've had the car 18 months.. I've never noticed a drop in power.. certainly not a 25% drop, and I have had the car serviced (same garage) before.. could they miss this on a service, surely not?
I was told the HT leads had melted on the manifold and just needed replacing.. obviously this resulted in 2 cylinders not firing.
It just makes me wonder as I assumed this would be something very noticeable..
if they were trying to make a few extra £££, then why this.. ht leads arent exactly expensive.
Just finding this a little interesting at the moment..
Would this not be something you would notice? Or is there a chance that if it has always been this way you may not have realised..?
Now i've had the car 18 months.. I've never noticed a drop in power.. certainly not a 25% drop, and I have had the car serviced (same garage) before.. could they miss this on a service, surely not?
I was told the HT leads had melted on the manifold and just needed replacing.. obviously this resulted in 2 cylinders not firing.
It just makes me wonder as I assumed this would be something very noticeable..
if they were trying to make a few extra £££, then why this.. ht leads arent exactly expensive.
Just finding this a little interesting at the moment..
If you get it back and its very noticeably quicker then they may of had a point, the HT leads may of broken down gradually over time. It may not of been running on just 6 cyl but running rough on the two with the dodgy leads.
So what are they wanting to do to it, just replace the leads ( on top of the service items) or more work?
So what are they wanting to do to it, just replace the leads ( on top of the service items) or more work?
high52kojak said:
If you get it back and its very noticeably quicker then they may of had a point, the HT leads may of broken down gradually over time. It may not of been running on just 6 cyl but running rough on the two with the dodgy leads.
So what are they wanting to do to it, just replace the leads ( on top of the service items) or more work?
Well yes if there is an improvement there is no problem, and I'll be happy.So what are they wanting to do to it, just replace the leads ( on top of the service items) or more work?
I just find the situation interesting, I don't believe there has been a huge power drop in the last 12 months. The car runs fine so I find it hard to believe it has been like this since I have owned the car.. but I can't make out what has actually happened.
They have already done the work without informing me before hand. I think the only thing I can do is go to pick it up and see.. I guess one thing I could do is ask them to remove the plugs and let me see how it runs on 6cyl? If it is extremely bad then something doesnt add up. But I'm not sure where I go from there.
I don't want to drive away having paid for parts, labour etc and then find somethings not right somewhere along the lines, and have no come back. What would you do? You can tell me if you think I'm talking complete rubbish.. I could be a little paranoid here.
I have my fingers crossed I suddenly have a much improved cerb. I can't see it as it was seemingly running ok in the first place.
Edited by Spawn on Wednesday 11th November 00:03
Spawn said:
Well yes if there is an improvement there is no problem, and I'll be happy.
I just find the situation interesting, I don't believe there has been a huge power drop in the last 12 months. The car runs fine so I find it hard to believe it has been like this since I have owned the car.. but I can't make out what has actually happened.
This is strange, you would definately notice the car running 2 cylinders down, it would be lumpier than year old milk.I just find the situation interesting, I don't believe there has been a huge power drop in the last 12 months. The car runs fine so I find it hard to believe it has been like this since I have owned the car.. but I can't make out what has actually happened.
Spawn said:
They have already done the work without informing me before hand. I think the only thing I can do is go to pick it up and see.. I guess one thing I could do is ask them to remove the plugs and let me see how it runs on 6cyl? If it is extremely bad then something doesnt add up. But I'm not sure where I go from there.
I hate companies who do this, I alway sinsist that they contact me before doing anything else beyond the service schedule. Luckily the garages I use listen to me, it shoudl be common courtesy that they do anyway, what if you can't afford it right then? bad form I say. If they had contacted you then you could have at least gone down to see for yourself, too late now thoughYou wouldn't be able to drive it on six cylinders. When mine fired up on six cylinders, the two nearside rears were spark deprived.
The whole engine was vibrating badly and the engine wouldn't idle. Even if I revved higher the engine wasn't going to take a load.
It beggers belief that you could have been driving arounf like that with no knowledge.
The whole engine was vibrating badly and the engine wouldn't idle. Even if I revved higher the engine wasn't going to take a load.
It beggers belief that you could have been driving arounf like that with no knowledge.
Exactly, if it would run so badly on 6cyl.. there is no chance it has suddenly dropped in the last 18months as I would have definitely noticed this. So.. what would you suggest I do? I'm winding mylelf up over this - I just want me cerb back 
Edited by Spawn on Wednesday 11th November 14:35
WorAl said:
when you go down ask them to show you the old leads that they removed, if it doesnt add up then don't give them the money for the work done and dont use them again, sound like robbing feckers to me
Well I wonder if peoples opinions would change if you knew who it was. (not sure I should be naming on here)My worry is that if somethings not right my lack of knowledge in comparison over theres regarding the AJP8 may be my downfall so just trying to cover all the bases incase my suspicions are right. If I am not convinved I have no idea where to take it from there but I guess I will find out. Arranged to pick up tomorrow night.
Spawn said:
WorAl said:
when you go down ask them to show you the old leads that they removed, if it doesnt add up then don't give them the money for the work done and dont use them again, sound like robbing feckers to me
Well I wonder if peoples opinions would change if you knew who it was. (not sure I should be naming on here)My worry is that if somethings not right my lack of knowledge in comparison over theres regarding the AJP8 may be my downfall so just trying to cover all the bases incase my suspicions are right. If I am not convinved I have no idea where to take it from there but I guess I will find out. Arranged to pick up tomorrow night.
Imagine for instance that he said that two cylinders were underperformning. That can happen, and with TVRs it can often be the case that some cylinder carry the others as you can't set the butterflies for each cylinder individually. You tend to find this sort of problem mainly by trial and error as the effect on the overall engine (idle speed increases, engine more sparkle, or adaptives change for the better) is all you have to go on.
Two cylinder not firing is something your granny would notice. Two cylinders underperforming is something that can take an expert to deduce without a lot of trial and error.
julian64 said:
Spawn said:
WorAl said:
when you go down ask them to show you the old leads that they removed, if it doesnt add up then don't give them the money for the work done and dont use them again, sound like robbing feckers to me
Well I wonder if peoples opinions would change if you knew who it was. (not sure I should be naming on here)My worry is that if somethings not right my lack of knowledge in comparison over theres regarding the AJP8 may be my downfall so just trying to cover all the bases incase my suspicions are right. If I am not convinved I have no idea where to take it from there but I guess I will find out. Arranged to pick up tomorrow night.
Imagine for instance that he said that two cylinders were underperformning. That can happen, and with TVRs it can often be the case that some cylinder carry the others as you can't set the butterflies for each cylinder individually. You tend to find this sort of problem mainly by trial and error as the effect on the overall engine (idle speed increases, engine more sparkle, or adaptives change for the better) is all you have to go on.
Two cylinder not firing is something your granny would notice. Two cylinders underperforming is something that can take an expert to deduce without a lot of trial and error.
Well I was told yesterday that it was running on 6 cylinders specifically by the top dog.
Interestingly, I have just spoken with the person who was actually carrying out the work on my cerb. He stated that 1 cyl was definitely not operating due to the ht lead being completely melted.. the other "may have been operating on/off" due to the other damaged lead.
He did say he had the melted leads to show me. and that the engine is running fine having replaced these.
He also stated that the AJP engine could run fine without 2 cylinders firing (1 from each bank) and that it is possible you wouldn't notice this.
He stated he had previously seen (with another customer) where one bank has been working and the other not due to a coil pack issue and the customer had simply not noticed. Odd?
Having spoken with them further it has put my mind to rest a little more. Still some interesting comments though.
I shall just go along, pay, drive home and see what happens.
You could be correct Julian.. I can tinker with engines without problem, but the ajp I have little knowledge of so perhaps I have misunderstood certain areas, but I can safely say I was initially told I was running with only 6 cylinders.
Interestingly, I have just spoken with the person who was actually carrying out the work on my cerb. He stated that 1 cyl was definitely not operating due to the ht lead being completely melted.. the other "may have been operating on/off" due to the other damaged lead.
He did say he had the melted leads to show me. and that the engine is running fine having replaced these.
He also stated that the AJP engine could run fine without 2 cylinders firing (1 from each bank) and that it is possible you wouldn't notice this.
He stated he had previously seen (with another customer) where one bank has been working and the other not due to a coil pack issue and the customer had simply not noticed. Odd?
Having spoken with them further it has put my mind to rest a little more. Still some interesting comments though.
I shall just go along, pay, drive home and see what happens.
You could be correct Julian.. I can tinker with engines without problem, but the ajp I have little knowledge of so perhaps I have misunderstood certain areas, but I can safely say I was initially told I was running with only 6 cylinders.
Edited by Spawn on Wednesday 11th November 16:07
Spawn said:
Well I was told yesterday that it was running on 6 cylinders specifically by the top dog.
Interestingly, I have just spoken with the person who was actually carrying out the work on my cerb. He stated that 1 cyl was definitely not operating due to the ht lead being completely melted.. the other "may have been operating on/off" due to the other damaged lead.
He did say he had the melted leads to show me. and that the engine is running fine having replaced these.
He also stated that the AJP engine could run fine without 2 cylinders firing (1 from each bank) and that it is possible you wouldn't notice this.
He stated he had previously seen (with another customer) where one bank has been working and the other not due to a coil pack issue and the customer had simply not noticed. Odd?
Having spoken with them further it has put my mind to rest a little more. Still some interesting comments though.
I shall just go along, pay, drive home and see what happens.
You could be correct Julian.. I can tinker with engines without problem, but the ajp I have little knowledge of so perhaps I have misunderstood certain areas, but I can safely say I was initially told I was running with only 6 cylinders.
An HT lead is a very high voltage low current device. It will quite easily jump a reasonable gap and still be able to fire a plug. Will you find this if you go near a live lead even with some very hefty gloves on.Interestingly, I have just spoken with the person who was actually carrying out the work on my cerb. He stated that 1 cyl was definitely not operating due to the ht lead being completely melted.. the other "may have been operating on/off" due to the other damaged lead.
He did say he had the melted leads to show me. and that the engine is running fine having replaced these.
He also stated that the AJP engine could run fine without 2 cylinders firing (1 from each bank) and that it is possible you wouldn't notice this.
He stated he had previously seen (with another customer) where one bank has been working and the other not due to a coil pack issue and the customer had simply not noticed. Odd?
Having spoken with them further it has put my mind to rest a little more. Still some interesting comments though.
I shall just go along, pay, drive home and see what happens.
You could be correct Julian.. I can tinker with engines without problem, but the ajp I have little knowledge of so perhaps I have misunderstood certain areas, but I can safely say I was initially told I was running with only 6 cylinders.
Edited by Spawn on Wednesday 11th November 16:07
In fact I used to do this on motorcycles to find a duff cylinder. You would notice the plug comming back to life after removing a lead just before you actually touched plug lead to head to fix the plug back on.
An HT lead will take a ferocious amount of damage therefore before it actually gives up, itll just cause a weak spark. Just burning the outer insulator would not stop the cylinder firing althougher unless there was also a good earth very near the break to cause an alternative short to earth.
I'm afraid I have great difficulty believing you could drive the car with two cylinders not firing. First of all a large amount of neat fuel would be being pumped by the cylinders into your exhaust, which would either cause a tremenous noise if it ignited or look like clouds of white/blue smoke comming out the back of your car.
Still if the mechanic persists, when your car is ready for collection, ask him to remove two plug leads and ask him to drive it up the road
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