ACT manifold fitment issues - HELPPPPP :-(
Discussion
Knowledgeable peeps, some assistance/ideas if you'd be so kind 
I'm trying to fit my ACT manifolds but am having problems with my pax side. It fouls on a lower bellhouse bolt. Because of this, the whole pax side manifold is kicked out toward the chassis rails and the linked decat then can't fix the manifolds together & obviously one side is resting on a bolt which is baaaad.
1st thing. Would an older style bellhousing be a different shape to a newer one? These manifolds were sucessfully fitted to another car, yet seem to not want to go onto mine at all - could it be I have an older bellhousing ('96 cerb) which is a lot longer or something than the latter?
We arent talking about 1mm of misalignment / interference here. The manifold really wants to go RIGHT through the bolt head, probably 1cm or so I'd guess.
2nd thing. What do I do
? - Tim@ACT is on holiday at the moment so I can't really get advice form him other than trying a blowtorch to bend them, which I did, but it only ever got one spot red hot, not enough to actually make it bendable, PLUS I'll need to bend some sort of crazy 'S' kink into that pipe to clear the bolt... and then I'm worried it won't all line up to fit on the head anymore!
Has anyone seen / solved this problem before?
Tempted to try and fit my normal manifold on this side to just get the damn thing running again
I could maybe get a mobile welder to come over and use a torch to get more heat into it - how easy is it to bend red hot pipe? - would it be easily doable by hand to try and get this crazy kink in?
TIA
Stu
I wish to cry. These manifolds are so damn cool though, I just want to get them in!
I'm trying to fit my ACT manifolds but am having problems with my pax side. It fouls on a lower bellhouse bolt. Because of this, the whole pax side manifold is kicked out toward the chassis rails and the linked decat then can't fix the manifolds together & obviously one side is resting on a bolt which is baaaad.
1st thing. Would an older style bellhousing be a different shape to a newer one? These manifolds were sucessfully fitted to another car, yet seem to not want to go onto mine at all - could it be I have an older bellhousing ('96 cerb) which is a lot longer or something than the latter?
We arent talking about 1mm of misalignment / interference here. The manifold really wants to go RIGHT through the bolt head, probably 1cm or so I'd guess.
2nd thing. What do I do
? - Tim@ACT is on holiday at the moment so I can't really get advice form him other than trying a blowtorch to bend them, which I did, but it only ever got one spot red hot, not enough to actually make it bendable, PLUS I'll need to bend some sort of crazy 'S' kink into that pipe to clear the bolt... and then I'm worried it won't all line up to fit on the head anymore!Has anyone seen / solved this problem before?
Tempted to try and fit my normal manifold on this side to just get the damn thing running again
I could maybe get a mobile welder to come over and use a torch to get more heat into it - how easy is it to bend red hot pipe? - would it be easily doable by hand to try and get this crazy kink in?
TIA
Stu
I wish to cry. These manifolds are so damn cool though, I just want to get them in!
Edited by stuthemong on Sunday 27th December 16:31
I've fitted the ACT manifolds one mine and have recently had to remove and refit due to some of the nuts vibrating loose on the joiners. The passenger side on mine is tight - the secondary pipe rests flush against the gearbox, although its only very slight.
I think in your case you will need to get ACT to look at the problem - all I would say is that if you try to bend the manifolds (or damage them in any way) then ACT may not be willing to help.
I think in your case you will need to get ACT to look at the problem - all I would say is that if you try to bend the manifolds (or damage them in any way) then ACT may not be willing to help.
Longbow,
Thanks. I've been annoying Tim lots, he's a top top lad, just a shame he's away at the moment or I'd be happy annoying him more. He's even texted me from holiday re: blowtorching, so he knows I was going to try it. The halfords jobby is just too poxy though, bought more in a resigned hope over realisic expectations that it would work I think.
Do you know if you had the new/old bellhousing on your car?
This really is quite weird as these manifolds are 2nd hand, so were already fitted on another car (Tim said some early variants needed a bit of fettling with blowtorch on first fitment) so were expected to drop right in A-OK.
If it was a little jink I'd probably continue trying to bend, but the damn bolt really is in the way of where the manifold 'wants' to go.
The ass with the manifolds is (and why my car has been off road so long) I can't really do much else to the car before they are in. Coolant rails+refill, exhaust, ARB's etc.. all have to get done after I get the manifolds in.
Thanks. I've been annoying Tim lots, he's a top top lad, just a shame he's away at the moment or I'd be happy annoying him more. He's even texted me from holiday re: blowtorching, so he knows I was going to try it. The halfords jobby is just too poxy though, bought more in a resigned hope over realisic expectations that it would work I think.
Do you know if you had the new/old bellhousing on your car?
This really is quite weird as these manifolds are 2nd hand, so were already fitted on another car (Tim said some early variants needed a bit of fettling with blowtorch on first fitment) so were expected to drop right in A-OK.
If it was a little jink I'd probably continue trying to bend, but the damn bolt really is in the way of where the manifold 'wants' to go.
The ass with the manifolds is (and why my car has been off road so long) I can't really do much else to the car before they are in. Coolant rails+refill, exhaust, ARB's etc.. all have to get done after I get the manifolds in.
Mine has the later '4.5' bellhousing and clutch.
I know what you mean - it must be very frustrating as there is a lot of work involved in removing/refitting the manifolds. Would be annoying to have to refit the standard manifolds just to get the car mobile again.
Tim is very helpful though - I called him a few times the first time I put mine together.
From what you have said the logical conclusion would be that the bellhousing is indeed causing the problem. It is a known fact that the early bellhousings are different to the later ones, but not many will know exactly where the differences are.
Can you take a picture of the manifold and bolt? I can then have a look at mine to see if it is different.
I know what you mean - it must be very frustrating as there is a lot of work involved in removing/refitting the manifolds. Would be annoying to have to refit the standard manifolds just to get the car mobile again.
Tim is very helpful though - I called him a few times the first time I put mine together.
From what you have said the logical conclusion would be that the bellhousing is indeed causing the problem. It is a known fact that the early bellhousings are different to the later ones, but not many will know exactly where the differences are.
Can you take a picture of the manifold and bolt? I can then have a look at mine to see if it is different.
Longbow,
Agreed - I think I need to whip the camera out and with your assistance find out what I have
Itejim, I see what you are saying although the car has already had 1 clutch in its life & it bites strong as ever now - I'm loathe to throw more money at this damn car for now. I take the point though, *if* I have an old bellhousing and that is where my problem lies, I'm better spending money on changing that, rather than fettling manifolds.
Incidentally, anyone know *if* I have the old housing and *if* I get a new one, can I just lob it on? Or would I have to change clutch too? Now I know some would recommend changing clutch whilst in there... but I'll save cash for now I think. Also, as I've had zero jip with the slave seal/biting of clutch at all I'm a bit loathe to go poking around in there. I've seen so many threads where people struggle with leaking seals I'd really like not to disturb the area to be honest. Call me a wuss if you want
I probably should have just made life easy for myself and sealed my damn manifolds with gun-gum like was recommended to me. Hey ho!
Agreed - I think I need to whip the camera out and with your assistance find out what I have
Itejim, I see what you are saying although the car has already had 1 clutch in its life & it bites strong as ever now - I'm loathe to throw more money at this damn car for now. I take the point though, *if* I have an old bellhousing and that is where my problem lies, I'm better spending money on changing that, rather than fettling manifolds.
Incidentally, anyone know *if* I have the old housing and *if* I get a new one, can I just lob it on? Or would I have to change clutch too? Now I know some would recommend changing clutch whilst in there... but I'll save cash for now I think. Also, as I've had zero jip with the slave seal/biting of clutch at all I'm a bit loathe to go poking around in there. I've seen so many threads where people struggle with leaking seals I'd really like not to disturb the area to be honest. Call me a wuss if you want
I probably should have just made life easy for myself and sealed my damn manifolds with gun-gum like was recommended to me. Hey ho!
very much an option, yes One I had considered. I figured that removing a bolt wasn't a terribly clever thing to do though - it's probably needed for something
I'll take some pictures tomorrow, see if anyone else can chime with more info on the back of that. I just want to do the job 'properly' - that's why I didn't just gun-gum the damn manifolds.
Already bought new exhaust and manifolds to try and fix this thing up. I'd feel sick if I need to do another grand on a new bellhousing and clutch.... the damn car at least ran fine before I started messing with it......
Maybe there is a lesson here?
Still. I got my water rails powder coated nicely. They'll look nice when back on so long as they don't get cooked, which they may, but theyll still look better than they did before.
Oh, and I got some new pipe clamps too. Old ones very corroded. At least theyll look nice
One I had considered. I figured that removing a bolt wasn't a terribly clever thing to do though - it's probably needed for something I'll take some pictures tomorrow, see if anyone else can chime with more info on the back of that. I just want to do the job 'properly' - that's why I didn't just gun-gum the damn manifolds.
Already bought new exhaust and manifolds to try and fix this thing up. I'd feel sick if I need to do another grand on a new bellhousing and clutch.... the damn car at least ran fine before I started messing with it......
Maybe there is a lesson here?
Still. I got my water rails powder coated nicely. They'll look nice when back on so long as they don't get cooked, which they may, but theyll still look better than they did before.
Oh, and I got some new pipe clamps too. Old ones very corroded. At least theyll look nice
Stu, get a photo of the offending bolt up, it may be that you can change it for something a little less hefty and create some space.
If you end up having to change the bell housing then I think that you will indeed have to change the clutch - in fact the reason that most people end up changing bell housings is that I don't believe that the earlier clutches are available any more.
Lets see the photo and I'm sure that something can be organised!
If you end up having to change the bell housing then I think that you will indeed have to change the clutch - in fact the reason that most people end up changing bell housings is that I don't believe that the earlier clutches are available any more.
Lets see the photo and I'm sure that something can be organised!
If its only just hitting... Why dont you mark where the bolt hits the manifold... take the manifold off and heat it up.... and just get the ball part of the hammer and just knock it in slightly.##
Also would 2 exhausts gaskets bring it far enough away to miss the bolt...
it would be very hard to bend an exhuast but not impossible...
Jack
Also would 2 exhausts gaskets bring it far enough away to miss the bolt...
it would be very hard to bend an exhuast but not impossible...
Jack
Right then. Operation make progress. By any means.
Here is the blighter. It is right where the 2ndary pipe wants to be. The pipe wants to sit about 1cm in an upward in the picture, or 1cm closer to the gearbox.
This shows how the manifolds line up as-installed. The left side is giving probs, rhs looks A-OK. The manifold sits both too low and too far to the left.
The jackal inspired me. I self-medicated some pills of man-the-fook up and got hammering. I know this will create a small constriction to the manifold, and it will probably cost me a horse or so, but I couldn't be faffed. The cross sectional area will only marginally be throttled for 5cm or so and the 4.2's aren't really limited by standard manifolds anyway. I'm sure some would gasp and cry to see what I did to the poor ACT's here, but to be honest it was the best solution I can see - anything else requires so much work & I doubt this costs me any power anyway. I hope I'm right!
So horrah. The dink is nicely clear of the bolt in all directions really. Probably 5mm at a minimum which I am happy with. The manifolds line up pretty much bang on at the rear now - a 3mm or so tweak pulling them together to get the decats on - so all good............ ish......
Damnations. I thought that clearing this bolt and swinging the manifold in would releave the proximity of this flange relative the chassis rail. I was wrong. It's pretty much sat on the chassis now to be honest, maybe 1mm clearance. This is not good as the engine can move on the mounts relative to the chassis so would undoubtedly hit & rattle around.
I feel a LOT closer than I did yesterday, but still some work to do.
Current plan is to grind off 1-2mm of the flange that interferes with the chassis to make it a bit thinner there and buy me a couple mills. Hope to hell I don't make the joint unsealable as this is another 1-way trip, but it's probably 6mm thick standard, taking it to 4mm should be OK I think unless anyone has any big objections? Please say asap as I'll be grinidng it down in the next 3 days!
Then after this mini fettle I'll reinstall the manifolds properly with loctite sealant (for the nth time. grrrr). I'll then install the decat pipe to constrain the lower section from moving & jam a block of wood or something between the chassis rail and the flange (and also between the bolt and other 2ndary so I don't just push that back into interference). I'll then blowtorch the upper manifold and lower manifold to red hot & gentle cool a few times... before jamming a bigger bit of wood in and repeating. Hopefully after a few iterations of this I can get this secondary to sit 1cm away from the chassis to give me some hope of not t
tting it with the manifold under heavy footage.
Any tips on how to not set my car on fire? I was going to put some wet rags around the areas of blowtorchage & keep an extinguiser on standby - is this a chuffing stupid idea, or should it be doable?
Also & finally, a pic of my bellhousing. Anyone got any idea if this is old or new style?
Cheers,
Stu
Here is the blighter. It is right where the 2ndary pipe wants to be. The pipe wants to sit about 1cm in an upward in the picture, or 1cm closer to the gearbox.
This shows how the manifolds line up as-installed. The left side is giving probs, rhs looks A-OK. The manifold sits both too low and too far to the left.
The jackal inspired me. I self-medicated some pills of man-the-fook up and got hammering. I know this will create a small constriction to the manifold, and it will probably cost me a horse or so, but I couldn't be faffed. The cross sectional area will only marginally be throttled for 5cm or so and the 4.2's aren't really limited by standard manifolds anyway. I'm sure some would gasp and cry to see what I did to the poor ACT's here, but to be honest it was the best solution I can see - anything else requires so much work & I doubt this costs me any power anyway. I hope I'm right!
So horrah. The dink is nicely clear of the bolt in all directions really. Probably 5mm at a minimum which I am happy with. The manifolds line up pretty much bang on at the rear now - a 3mm or so tweak pulling them together to get the decats on - so all good............ ish......
Damnations. I thought that clearing this bolt and swinging the manifold in would releave the proximity of this flange relative the chassis rail. I was wrong. It's pretty much sat on the chassis now to be honest, maybe 1mm clearance. This is not good as the engine can move on the mounts relative to the chassis so would undoubtedly hit & rattle around.
I feel a LOT closer than I did yesterday, but still some work to do.
Current plan is to grind off 1-2mm of the flange that interferes with the chassis to make it a bit thinner there and buy me a couple mills. Hope to hell I don't make the joint unsealable as this is another 1-way trip, but it's probably 6mm thick standard, taking it to 4mm should be OK I think unless anyone has any big objections? Please say asap as I'll be grinidng it down in the next 3 days!
Then after this mini fettle I'll reinstall the manifolds properly with loctite sealant (for the nth time. grrrr). I'll then install the decat pipe to constrain the lower section from moving & jam a block of wood or something between the chassis rail and the flange (and also between the bolt and other 2ndary so I don't just push that back into interference). I'll then blowtorch the upper manifold and lower manifold to red hot & gentle cool a few times... before jamming a bigger bit of wood in and repeating. Hopefully after a few iterations of this I can get this secondary to sit 1cm away from the chassis to give me some hope of not t
tting it with the manifold under heavy footage.Any tips on how to not set my car on fire? I was going to put some wet rags around the areas of blowtorchage & keep an extinguiser on standby - is this a chuffing stupid idea, or should it be doable?
Also & finally, a pic of my bellhousing. Anyone got any idea if this is old or new style?
Cheers,
Stu
Good on you Stu!!! I would'nt of thought it would cause that much of a restriction in your system... The cats would cause more!!!
Id just grind the Clamp abit if your worryed....... I've noticed my engine does not move aright alot in the mounts... the mounts just take the rubble out of the engine... When the engine revs the chassis flexis more tan the mounts move!!!
That bellhousing isent like mine!! mines a 1996 4.2
p.s Got your pipes on today!! Well chuffed with them!!!
Id just grind the Clamp abit if your worryed....... I've noticed my engine does not move aright alot in the mounts... the mounts just take the rubble out of the engine... When the engine revs the chassis flexis more tan the mounts move!!!
That bellhousing isent like mine!! mines a 1996 4.2
p.s Got your pipes on today!! Well chuffed with them!!!
Cheers guys - I'm not celebrating just yet, but feel quite a bit happier now.
I'll grind a bit off and try teasing it in a bit I think - I can't beleive the engine won't sway a bit under chat. One thing I could do is lift up the mount on the pax side. I did refit it quite low so the bolts are resting are on the upper of the holes in the mount. I thought this made most sense incase the vibrations made it 'droop' in the mount (There is probably 2-4mm 'play' in where the mounting brackets can be situation on the chassis) - maybe I should just lift the engine that few mm - will the mount hold it like that?
I can't really swing to the left as on drivers side the manifolds come up to approx 15mm of the fibreglass up there (near clutch resevoir) so I'd just introduce problems there - these things really are like octopus arms
Jackal, do you know if your's is original bellhousing or not? Mines a 96 4.2 too One of the previous owners graciously called me (hi Pete!) today to let me know that when he did the clutch 2 years ago he didn't need to change housing, which was a surprise to him at the time, but it could be old style clutch stock hanging aorund back then or anything - I'm really unsure as to what sort of housing I have. TBH I had a gut feeling I had the later style, but then with this manifold not fitting I'm really not so sure anymore :/ Glad the exhaust has fitted - loud 'aint it ?
edhorne, thanks - your opinion would be appreciated. If it's bad news then I at least have a heads-up for when clutch change comes around. By chance there is another thread just posted up where someone is after a 4.5 housing - 250quid odd from racing green or suchlike, which is no great disaster by any means. More the hassle of getting in there for this which was annoying me, now I've cleared this bolt that can be a battle for another day if needs be
- I'm not celebrating just yet, but feel quite a bit happier now.I'll grind a bit off and try teasing it in a bit I think - I can't beleive the engine won't sway a bit under chat. One thing I could do is lift up the mount on the pax side. I did refit it quite low so the bolts are resting are on the upper of the holes in the mount. I thought this made most sense incase the vibrations made it 'droop' in the mount (There is probably 2-4mm 'play' in where the mounting brackets can be situation on the chassis) - maybe I should just lift the engine that few mm - will the mount hold it like that?
I can't really swing to the left as on drivers side the manifolds come up to approx 15mm of the fibreglass up there (near clutch resevoir) so I'd just introduce problems there - these things really are like octopus arms
Jackal, do you know if your's is original bellhousing or not? Mines a 96 4.2 too
One of the previous owners graciously called me (hi Pete!) today to let me know that when he did the clutch 2 years ago he didn't need to change housing, which was a surprise to him at the time, but it could be old style clutch stock hanging aorund back then or anything - I'm really unsure as to what sort of housing I have. TBH I had a gut feeling I had the later style, but then with this manifold not fitting I'm really not so sure anymore :/ Glad the exhaust has fitted - loud 'aint it ?edhorne, thanks - your opinion would be appreciated. If it's bad news then I at least have a heads-up for when clutch change comes around. By chance there is another thread just posted up where someone is after a 4.5 housing - 250quid odd from racing green or suchlike, which is no great disaster by any means. More the hassle of getting in there for this which was annoying me, now I've cleared this bolt that can be a battle for another day if needs be
Edited by stuthemong on Monday 28th December 23:41
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