pre oiler install
Discussion
I am thinking about installing one of the below style of pre oilers to my 4.5, any comments or experiences out there?
www.autoenginelube.com/howitworks.html
My Cerb, when it gets on the road, will only be used every few weeks so it will spend a lot of time before starts. This type of pre oiler has an accumulator storing the oil from the engine as it runs. This is then held at pressure till you turn the ignition (or fit a switch) to release the oil back into the engine.
My only immediate thought is that more oil may be pushed past the oil pump back to the sump and not up to the bearings etc (any thoughts). Also I can't see this or any other pre oiler coating surfaces such as the piston liners so is it worth while potentially protecting big ends etc while leaving other ware areas exposed? Regards
www.autoenginelube.com/howitworks.html
My Cerb, when it gets on the road, will only be used every few weeks so it will spend a lot of time before starts. This type of pre oiler has an accumulator storing the oil from the engine as it runs. This is then held at pressure till you turn the ignition (or fit a switch) to release the oil back into the engine.
My only immediate thought is that more oil may be pushed past the oil pump back to the sump and not up to the bearings etc (any thoughts). Also I can't see this or any other pre oiler coating surfaces such as the piston liners so is it worth while potentially protecting big ends etc while leaving other ware areas exposed? Regards
Have one of these sitting in the garage awaiting fitment:
http://www.accusump.com/
Another to look at, seem to be the preferred option.
Good luck
Tim
http://www.accusump.com/
Another to look at, seem to be the preferred option.
Good luck
Tim
tim your link does not work. Is this what you have?
http://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p10997/ACCUSUMP-...
http://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p10997/ACCUSUMP-...
markh1 said:
tim your link does not work. Is this what you have?
http://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p10997/ACCUSUMP-...
Tims link works for me Ok. From the three links all the kits appear to be much the same all working in the same way. Anyone able to give some feedback on use etc?http://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p10997/ACCUSUMP-...
I had one of the RaceProved pre-oilers fitted for my Cerb AJP 4.2. I can't see it on their website, but they fitted it fine. As for use, couldn't be simpler, when holding down the start button the oil light flashes until the oil is up to pressure, then beeps and the oil light flashes faster just before the starter kicks in. If you want to overide the pre-oiler, e.g. your engine is already warm, had only stopped for a short while, or God forbid stalled the car, then a double press of the starter button by-passes the pre-oiler and the car starts normally.
RaceProved are TVR experts, and I have always received truely excellent customer service there. Give them a call - I'm sure that they would be happy to talk through the techie stuff.....
http://www.raceproved.com/
RaceProved are TVR experts, and I have always received truely excellent customer service there. Give them a call - I'm sure that they would be happy to talk through the techie stuff.....
http://www.raceproved.com/
I looked into this, it needs to be fitted as close to the block as possible, which on
the AJP has to be infront of the oil pump. You need to fit a one way valve aswell to
stop the oil flowing the wrong way. A flapper valve will produce less resistance
to normal oil flow.
After looking at the pick up In the sump and the windage tray, I decided it was of no use
as you'd have to be seriously low on oil for the pick up to not be submerged in oil.
The sump must hold about 5 litres you can't uncover the pick up with even the hardest
of cornering of leaping over jumps ect. So for me, no not something I'll be doing.
With regards preoiling on start up, the oil galleries will allways have oil in them, they can't drain dry.
the AJP has to be infront of the oil pump. You need to fit a one way valve aswell to
stop the oil flowing the wrong way. A flapper valve will produce less resistance
to normal oil flow.
After looking at the pick up In the sump and the windage tray, I decided it was of no use
as you'd have to be seriously low on oil for the pick up to not be submerged in oil.
The sump must hold about 5 litres you can't uncover the pick up with even the hardest
of cornering of leaping over jumps ect. So for me, no not something I'll be doing.
With regards preoiling on start up, the oil galleries will allways have oil in them, they can't drain dry.
Edited by Nickccc on Thursday 25th March 16:37
Hello Nick,
(With regards preoiling on start up, the oil galleries will allways have oil in them, they can't drain dry)
I agree with what you say here, but at the end of the day the oil pump has to run for a short period before the galleries pressurise and force oil out the feed holes. The pre oiler is doing this job with out the engine turning, so surely it has to be a good idea and iliminate oil being starved from bearing faces?
This is just my thoughts.
(With regards preoiling on start up, the oil galleries will allways have oil in them, they can't drain dry)
I agree with what you say here, but at the end of the day the oil pump has to run for a short period before the galleries pressurise and force oil out the feed holes. The pre oiler is doing this job with out the engine turning, so surely it has to be a good idea and iliminate oil being starved from bearing faces?
This is just my thoughts.
mikeinsheffield said:
I had one of the RaceProved pre-oilers fitted for my Cerb AJP 4.2. I can't see it on their website, but they fitted it fine. As for use, couldn't be simpler, when holding down the start button the oil light flashes until the oil is up to pressure, then beeps and the oil light flashes faster just before the starter kicks in. If you want to overide the pre-oiler, e.g. your engine is already warm, had only stopped for a short while, or God forbid stalled the car, then a double press of the starter button by-passes the pre-oiler and the car starts normally.
RaceProved are TVR experts, and I have always received truely excellent customer service there. Give them a call - I'm sure that they would be happy to talk through the techie stuff.....
http://www.raceproved.com/
Just called them. They still do them for the V8 @ £472 +VAT. It is basically the same as the straight 6 kit but with no spray bars. Quite a & difference between the two types of systems IE pump or accumnlator style!RaceProved are TVR experts, and I have always received truely excellent customer service there. Give them a call - I'm sure that they would be happy to talk through the techie stuff.....
http://www.raceproved.com/
Accusumps are a good idea where there are concerns over surge whilst in use. I had one on a bike engined car which suffered and it did the trick for track use. The only reason that the straight 6 benefits from it on start up is that the top end is naturally starved of oil. In the AJP though the cams sit in a good quantity of oil.
If the AJP doesn't suffer from starvation under heavy cornering then I really can't see any benefit at all. If you want to be extra sure then just pull the fuel pump relay and use the starter to get some oil pressure up before you start it.
Overall,sounds like total overkill to me.
If the AJP doesn't suffer from starvation under heavy cornering then I really can't see any benefit at all. If you want to be extra sure then just pull the fuel pump relay and use the starter to get some oil pressure up before you start it.
Overall,sounds like total overkill to me.
shoggyraminator said:
Hello Nick,
(With regards preoiling on start up, the oil galleries will allways have oil in them, they can't drain dry)
I agree with what you say here, but at the end of the day the oil pump has to run for a short period before the galleries pressurise and force oil out the feed holes. The pre oiler is doing this job with out the engine turning, so surely it has to be a good idea and iliminate oil being starved from bearing faces?
This is just my thoughts.
fair point, it can't do any harm to have some oil pressure before turning(With regards preoiling on start up, the oil galleries will allways have oil in them, they can't drain dry)
I agree with what you say here, but at the end of the day the oil pump has to run for a short period before the galleries pressurise and force oil out the feed holes. The pre oiler is doing this job with out the engine turning, so surely it has to be a good idea and iliminate oil being starved from bearing faces?
This is just my thoughts.
the engine over.
I think you would have to leave the car undriven for a he'll of a long
time for all the oil film to have dissapeared though.
I like the heater pad idea, getting the oil temp up must be good news.
Nickccc said:
it can't do any harm to have some oil pressure before turning
the engine over.
This was my thinking.... if most of the damage done to an engine is done at cold start up, often due to lack of oil pressure (not the mere presence of a film of oil.....?) particularly in the head, where there are lots of moving parts, then surely supplying the head with oil at or near operating pressure, with a good supply of oil, can only prolong the engine life????the engine over.
I look at it the same way I do oil changes, preventative maintenance is a lot less expensive in the long run! I ALWAYS change the oil in my bikes well within, if not at 50% of recommended service intervals. I apply the same to cars - I'm sorry but I just don't buy the claims that modern oils / engines can go 20K miles between changes..... well, maybe they can, butI don't hold out much hopes for engine longevity 5-6 years down the line....
Re the preheater...
It is mains run. I have a plug in the engine bay.
It is not like a Kenlowe preheater that cuts out when the water temperature gets to about 80 degrees. It just stays on until you unplug it.
There is no exact time to leave it on for, I always know a long way in advance when I am using the car so I will switch it on a couple of hours before. This is probably overkill but the longer you leave it on the better as the pad heats up the block as well as the oil. I have the 500w version but they do a 1000w version which would obviously be twice as quick.
Because of the ridged sump I had to fill the gap between the ridges with some chemical metal to get a flat surface to stick the pad on.
I think including the chemical metal it cost me about £100 all in but this was at least 18 months ago so prices could have changed.
This is the website...
http://www.padheaters.com/index.html
It is mains run. I have a plug in the engine bay.
It is not like a Kenlowe preheater that cuts out when the water temperature gets to about 80 degrees. It just stays on until you unplug it.
There is no exact time to leave it on for, I always know a long way in advance when I am using the car so I will switch it on a couple of hours before. This is probably overkill but the longer you leave it on the better as the pad heats up the block as well as the oil. I have the 500w version but they do a 1000w version which would obviously be twice as quick.
Because of the ridged sump I had to fill the gap between the ridges with some chemical metal to get a flat surface to stick the pad on.
I think including the chemical metal it cost me about £100 all in but this was at least 18 months ago so prices could have changed.
This is the website...
http://www.padheaters.com/index.html
jammy_basturd said:
Mark, if you have filled in a large quantity of the cooling fins on the sump, are you not worried about the oil over-heating?
It is probably about half of the cooling fins on the bottom of the sump that have been filled in. To be honest the oil rarely gets hot (one of the reasons I have fitted an oil stat) From the oil temp gauge it seems to sit at about 80 degrees in traffic. I think the oil stat is set to allow oil to flow to the cooler at about 85 degrees??
Gassing Station | Cerbera | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff