4.2 brakes 'again'

[assynt road]

Been looking into options for getting some better front brakes, does anybody know if standard 4.5 bells and rotors can be made to fit?

Also what front uprights does a 4.2 have?

Found this on the net, anybody used them or know anything about them?

http://www.hispecbrake.co.uk/Conversions/TVR/Cerbe...

The guy reckoned if I've got granada uprights these would fit. Winced at the price though!

Thanks as always, Steve.

[morebeanz]

Aside from the cost, would you actually ever get them to a working temperature outside of a trackday?

[Steve_T]

The 4.2 brakes are only designed for a 315mm diameter disc iirc (have a look here http://www.apracing.com/drawings/cp5200_1cd.pdf). If you go to 4.5 bells and rotors (not cheap) you'll also need 4.5 calipers and a spacer of some kind.

[JensenA]

I've always found the brakes on the Cerb to be really good (4.2 and 4.5). Upgrading is a big expense and a lot of hassle. is it worth it? If you are unhappy with your own brakes, it could be there is something wrong with them, and a simple refurb would put matters right.

[assynt road]

Yep, all fair points, I've never been happy with these brakes, its not that they don't stop you but they don't give a feeling of confedence whilst doing it! Its hard to explain, and as for the squealing! I'm on my 3rd set of pads now, all by different manufacturers and all squeal to a smaller or larger extent, it really gets on my tits! Anyways i've got to get some 18" sp12 wheels first before I can start playing! I just like to have a long term plan of where i'm going with things. Thanks for the replies. Steve.

[aubrey9160]

If you fit the hi-spec brake conversion Steve you will need to change your wheels as well. I wouldnt fit something as heavy as spiders with those I would fit a lighter wheel and get the full effect of the new brakes.Loads of money though and you wont get the full benefit on the road.

[Mark_S_24]

Perhaps the squeeling is from them not having been bedded in properly?
Have a read: http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_bedincontents...

Not sure if your brakes are supposed to have anti-squeel shims & if they have been copper-greased recently either.

Mark

[cerbfan]

I've just been through all this and its more hassle than its worth. To use the separate bells and rotors you need the later 6 bolt style CP5200 callipers. The only (smallest) rotor size that will fit the original bell bolting pattern are 330mm x 32mm. The callipers are not designed to fit 32mm discs so there is a good chance that they will not work as well, this is if you can find some of the callipers.
I have now gone back to the original set up that was on the car when I bought it, which is the earlier style 4 bolt callipers, spacers and the later 4.5 single piece 322mm x 28mm discs. These discs should also be to big for my callipers however they do work and have been on the car without problems for 5 or 6 years.

[assynt road]

Mark_S_24 said:

Perhaps the squeeling is from them not having been bedded in properly?
Have a read: http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_bedincontents...

Not sure if your brakes are supposed to have anti-squeel shims & if they have been copper-greased recently either.

Mark

Food for thought, thanks.

[jammy_basturd]

To stop the squealing do one of three things. One, use anti-squeal shims between the pad and caliper. Two, chamfer the edges of the pad. Three, use copper grease between the pad/caliper or pad/shim/caliper.

For better braking use a quality pad and disc. A number of people on here recommend Carbon Lorraine pads, as for discs the standard AP Racing ones are pretty good. Also worth draining your brake fluid and using a quality replacement fluid.

[gruffalo]

assynt road said:

Yep, all fair points, I've never been happy with these brakes, its not that they don't stop you but they don't give a feeling of confedence whilst doing it! Its hard to explain, and as for the squealing! I'm on my 3rd set of pads now, all by different manufacturers and all squeal to a smaller or larger extent, it really gets on my tits! Anyways i've got to get some 18" sp12 wheels first before I can start playing! I just like to have a long term plan of where i'm going with things. Thanks for the replies. Steve.

Just out of interest what brake fluid are you using?

I had the same lack of confidence and problems with the fluid boiling on track days, spoke to STR8SIX, they charged me a small sum to change the fliud for a high temp DOT5 fluid and now the brakes are awsome really good feel, never fade and can over come tyre grip so no point putting any thing more powerful on in my opinion.

[Steve_T]

Steve,

Have a look here before you go further:

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...

[Erich Stahler]

assynt road said:

Yep, all fair points, I've never been happy with these brakes, its not that they don't stop you but they don't give a feeling of confedence whilst doing it! Its hard to explain, and as for the squealing! I'm on my 3rd set of pads now, all by different manufacturers and all squeal to a smaller or larger extent, it really gets on my tits! Anyways i've got to get some 18" sp12 wheels first before I can start playing! I just like to have a long term plan of where i'm going with things. Thanks for the replies. Steve.

If your just upgrading the disks & callipers because of the squealing then your waisting your money unless you intend to do some very heavy prolonged track work!

The pads vibrating on contact with the disk is the problem you need to look at, even refacing the disks, new pads and anti squeal shims is probably all you need, maybe upgrade the brake fluid and fit braded brake hoses.

[DuncanM]

JensenA said:

I've always found the brakes on the Cerb to be really good (4.2 and 4.5). Upgrading is a big expense and a lot of hassle. is it worth it? If you are unhappy with your own brakes, it could be there is something wrong with them, and a simple refurb would put matters right.

I agree with Alan, the brakes on any Cerbera are superb .

The only thing I would say against mine (early 4.2 291mm disc) is that the brake bias is a little too much to the rear, meaning that the rears lock up first if your tyres are a little worn. Quite frustrating and hard to modulate the pedal as the fronts have loads more bite than you get to use.

I will be looking into a brake bias adjuster at some point in the future to combat this issue.

Edited to add:

Do the 315mm disc fit my calipers then without too much work?

Duncan

Edited by DuncanM on Friday 10th September 11:58

[Byker28i]

Best upgrade I've found to the 4.2 brakes were the Carbon Lorraine pads Brummie was selling. Made a real difference

[assynt road]

Hi chaps, thanks for all your help, have taken the cerb out and tried bedding in the brakes again as suggested, thanks for the link. This time i was alot more vigorous and took longer over it, result, now much less squealing! Not perfect but much better. Thanks to all of you that sent me the link to the thread on the griff forum, very revealing. I now know to ignore that companies downgrades! Cheers, steve.

[ridds]

DuncanM said:

JensenA said:

I've always found the brakes on the Cerb to be really good (4.2 and 4.5). Upgrading is a big expense and a lot of hassle. is it worth it? If you are unhappy with your own brakes, it could be there is something wrong with them, and a simple refurb would put matters right.

I agree with Alan, the brakes on any Cerbera are superb .

The only thing I would say against mine (early 4.2 291mm disc) is that the brake bias is a little too much to the rear, meaning that the rears lock up first if your tyres are a little worn. Quite frustrating and hard to modulate the pedal as the fronts have loads more bite than you get to use.

I will be looking into a brake bias adjuster at some point in the future to combat this issue.

Edited to add:

Do the 315mm disc fit my calipers then without too much work?

Duncan

Edited by DuncanM on Friday 10th September 11:58

tbh I find my 4.5 with the 6 bolt front calipers are still over braked on the rear, even with new tyres. One day I might get round to finding some larger discs for mine also.