I've designed a magic Slave Cylinder apparently

[WorAl]

Well, here is a puzzle for you "in the Cerbera know" chaps.

You may recall the time not so long back when my gearbox disintegrated on the A1?

Well I had the gearbox rebuilt and the car serviced by a TVR 'specialist'. Once I got the car back I had it about a month before one day taking it out of the garage to reveal a small patch of oil under the car, right where the gearbox mounts the bell housing.

I feared the worst as as you know I designed my own slave cylinder, however I had the car out that day for a 70+ mile run and when I got back (and the car was nice and warm) the oil was pissing out the bottom of the car. I checked the clutch fluid and the level was still full - no chance this could have been the case given how much oil was coming out of the car, i.e. 20ml or so in under 5 mins and it was still flowing.

The following week I tested the car again and the same happened, when the car was cold, no oil, once up to temperature the oil was flowing like the wines of France on the Riviera. Checked the slave again and not a drop had been lost, this time when I collected the oil it was red and thick, almost like treacle once it had cooled so in my less than expert knowledge it had to be gearbox oil.

I sent the car back to the 'specialist' who carried out the work, they removed the gearbox and said "the only wet patch is around where the slave cylinder sits so it must be clutch fluid" I argued that it is impossible to be due to the above reasons (Fluid reservoir being full and clutch still working 100%) but they insisted it wasn't the gearbox.

I got the car back today and I have checked the level in the clutch once again; full!!! Took the car for a blast to get it up to temperature and once again on arrival back home the master cylinder is still at it's full level and the oil is pissing out, I have just collected around 15ml in less than 5 mins once again.

Hence I apparently have designed a magic slave cylinder which keeps itself topped up.

My question to you is; are there any other parts where the bell housing and gearbox meet which could excrete a red, thick oil?

[skidoo]

gearbox oil if its red check gear oil level maybe over filled or gear box presure pushing oil past input shaft bearing

Edited by skidoo on Thursday 9th September 20:36

[itiejim]

WorAl said:

"the only wet patch is around where the slave cylinder sits so it must be clutch fluid"

The slave sits right around the input shaft of the 'box - who are they trying to kid? Surely they didn't go to the trouble of removing the 'box and not change the seal?

[WorAl]

itiejim said:

WorAl said:

"the only wet patch is around where the slave cylinder sits so it must be clutch fluid"

The slave sits right around the input shaft of the 'box - who are they trying to kid?

I have no idea, I think they think I am Adrenochrome

itiejim said:

Surely they didn't go to the trouble of removing the 'box and not change the seal?

Which seal?

Edited by WorAl on Thursday 9th September 20:52

[WorAl]

skidoo said:

gearbox oil if its red check gear oil level maybe over filled or gear box presure pushing oil past input shaft bearing

How can I check the level?

and could it just be a case of too much oil in the box? if so I may just wait a while as it does have the symptoms of overfilling something, i'e only coming out when it is under pressure.

[skidoo]

right hand side of gearbox about half way down there is a filler plug its a PITA to undo i use a 3/8 ratchet if when the plug comes out so does the oil then it was over filled as its the level plug to HTH

[WorAl]

skidoo said:

right hand side of gearbox about half way down there is a filler plug its a PITA to undo i use a 3/8 ratchet if when the plug comes out so does the oil then it was over filled as its the level plug to HTH

So the car has to be up and level then for this to work?

I'm not doubting you one bit Skidoo, but this is getting important that it is correct as it could prove to get expensive; so can anyone else here back up that the plug is also the oil level?

Edited by WorAl on Thursday 9th September 21:05

[skidoo]

sorry forgot to say ,yes car must be level on a lift if possible as it will ease removal of the plug the filler is the level also and the gear oil i beleave is ATF whitch is red im unsure of where or indeed if the box breather is but it sounds to me like an over filled box hopefully someone wil be along who can help you more

[WorAl]

Thank you very much Skidoo, will get this checked out on Saturday, like I said I'm not doubting you I just want to make sure I get things right so I can possibly claim the money back I've just had to shell out to get car back

[skidoo]

no problem id be just as keen to get to the bottom of it

[itiejim]

The seal I was referring to is the input shaft seal (effectively sits in the middle of the slave and stops oil coming out of the front of the 'box).

The breather will be on the top of the box somewhere, though I can't remember exactly where! It won't be within the bellhousing.

[a1rak]

Drain the box and fill it up with the specified amount recommended in the manual. 1.8ltrs i think but check yourself first. That way you know its not under or over filled and the level ground does not matter.

[WorAl]

itiejim said:

The seal I was referring to is the input shaft seal (effectively sits in the middle of the slave and stops oil coming out of the front of the 'box).

The breather will be on the top of the box somewhere, though I can't remember exactly where! It won't be within the bellhousing.

Then no they didn't, not even out of courtesy, as "it's not the gearbox"

a1rak said:

Drain the box and fill it up with the specified amount recommended in the manual. 1.8ltrs i think but check yourself first. That way you know its not under or over filled and the level ground does not matter.

I'll go for Skidoos suggestion first as it's easiest and cheapest (i.e. free)

[brogenville]

ATF (the normal oil specified for T5 'boxes) is almosr certainly going to be red, but brake/clutch fluid is rarelt anything other than a yellowish colour. Have you actually checked whether your clutch fluid is red?

Also, ATF will feel really slippery and oily (surprisingly enough) between your fingers, which is distinctly different to what brake fluid will feel like (slippery, but kinda chalky if you know what I mean). They also smell really different too. In fact, its hard to imagine how any mechanic could mistake one for the other if you can show them a sample.

My money's on gearbox fluid- best of luck!

[WorAl]

brogenville said:

ATF (the normal oil specified for T5 'boxes) is almosr certainly going to be red, but brake/clutch fluid is rarelt anything other than a yellowish colour. Have you actually checked whether your clutch fluid is red?

The clutch fluid is a translucent dark colour, I know this as I bought the stuff and put it in the car - I forgot to mention this; it apparently can change colour

brogenville said:

Also, ATF will feel really slippery and oily (surprisingly enough) between your fingers, which is distinctly different to what brake fluid will feel like (slippery, but kinda chalky if you know what I mean).

Yes, I know exactly what you mean, the fluid is really oily and I dipped my finger in the master cylinder to get a smell and it's sticky, like dried superglue on your fingers.

brogenville said:

They also smell really different too. In fact, its hard to imagine how any mechanic could mistake one for the other if you can show them a sample.

Also yes, they do smell completely different, one smells of hops (sort of) - that's the fluid dripping out of the car. The other, the brake fluid, smells sickly sweet and almost alcohol'y <- is that a word?

brogenville said:

My money's on gearbox fluid- best of luck!

Same here, cheers, just hope it's easy to solve, overfilled, rather than gearbox back off again.

[WorAl]

Bump for the daytime crew. Any confirmations, arguments, suggestions welcome.

[DonkeyApple]

WorAl said:

this time when I collected the oil it was red and thick, almost like treacle once it had cooled

This could be an Ecumanical matter.

[gruffalo]

Yep, ATF is red and should be clean.

If the oil is getting through the front seal then you have to need to watch out for it contaminating the clutch, if this gets oil on it it will need replacing.

I have heard of T5 boxes building up pressure inside them and pushing oil out when over filled so this is a very possible scenario.

Good luck but please also let me know who rebuilt your box so I do not use them in the future, I have a feeling that I may lose second soon so will be in need of a rebuild over the winter.

Cheers

[WorAl]

gruffalo said:

Yep, ATF is red and should be clean.

If the oil is getting through the front seal then you have to need to watch out for it contaminating the clutch, if this gets oil on it it will need replacing.

I have heard of T5 boxes building up pressure inside them and pushing oil out when over filled so this is a very possible scenario.

Good luck but please also let me know who rebuilt your box so I do not use them in the future, I have a feeling that I may lose second soon so will be in need of a rebuild over the winter.

Cheers

Send me a pm, I'll reply later when I get on a computer.

Ok looking good for it being overfilled then. Clutch not contaminated thankfully as it's leaking out from where bell housing meets gearbox.
The oil is discoloured but I think that is just dirt off bottom of car mixing with it.

[Byker28i]

DonkeyApple said:

WorAl said:

this time when I collected the oil it was red and thick, almost like treacle once it had cooled

This could be an Ecumanical matter.

Cerbera Stigmata? Sounds like gearbox oil and a lack of willingness to accept it's overfilled or a leaking seal.