Discussion
Ok guys I've had enough!!!
I've just been reading DAzzlars thread about his S6 engine.
From various other threads I would judge that more than 50% of SP6 engines have required a rebuild of some sort have covered less than 15K miles. This is a joke as we all know!
I just cant understand how TVR can get away with selling a product for so long when it only works for a tiny percentage of the cars life? Any other company selling a product that had this quality performance would be sued to the hilt by its customers!
You dont buy a house then 1 year later it falls down! You dont buy a tv then 1 year later it blows up! These types of things shouldnt be happening. TVR shouldnbt be able to get away with selling you a product when they know they have huge problems issues with it and that they know it wont last the distance! If every customers was told, yeh you'll get about 12K out of it then if your lucky it wont blow up in the next 3K after that how many people would have bought one???? Ehhh NONE!!!
You've also got to look at the negative effect this is having on resale values and in simplisistc terms it causing the cusotmer to loose huge amounts of cash! But hang on this is all caused by TVR. No wonder they dont sell in America, there would be no end of lawsuits brought against the company!
I've asked my local dealers if they were interested in an SP6, they all said NOP! DOnt touch them. But hand on these are Main Agent dealers and they wont even get involved with theie owwn brand of car. What a joke!
Any other company would provide free brebuilds/product recalls etc
We all need to stand up and be counted if something is going to be done and i can gurantee if anything goes wrong with trev it's be straight on the phone to trading standards.
Christ, I'm scared to touch the accelerator on trev incase of the engine blowing up!
Dazzlar, you should give trading standards a call and let them advise you. It would be worth taking a poll on PH to see how many SP6 engine eissues there are out there. This is defo your first step. Good luck and if you need any help give me a mail.
Cheers
Jamster
I've just been reading DAzzlars thread about his S6 engine.
From various other threads I would judge that more than 50% of SP6 engines have required a rebuild of some sort have covered less than 15K miles. This is a joke as we all know!
I just cant understand how TVR can get away with selling a product for so long when it only works for a tiny percentage of the cars life? Any other company selling a product that had this quality performance would be sued to the hilt by its customers!
You dont buy a house then 1 year later it falls down! You dont buy a tv then 1 year later it blows up! These types of things shouldnt be happening. TVR shouldnbt be able to get away with selling you a product when they know they have huge problems issues with it and that they know it wont last the distance! If every customers was told, yeh you'll get about 12K out of it then if your lucky it wont blow up in the next 3K after that how many people would have bought one???? Ehhh NONE!!!
You've also got to look at the negative effect this is having on resale values and in simplisistc terms it causing the cusotmer to loose huge amounts of cash! But hang on this is all caused by TVR. No wonder they dont sell in America, there would be no end of lawsuits brought against the company!
I've asked my local dealers if they were interested in an SP6, they all said NOP! DOnt touch them. But hand on these are Main Agent dealers and they wont even get involved with theie owwn brand of car. What a joke!
Any other company would provide free brebuilds/product recalls etc
We all need to stand up and be counted if something is going to be done and i can gurantee if anything goes wrong with trev it's be straight on the phone to trading standards.
Christ, I'm scared to touch the accelerator on trev incase of the engine blowing up!
Dazzlar, you should give trading standards a call and let them advise you. It would be worth taking a poll on PH to see how many SP6 engine eissues there are out there. This is defo your first step. Good luck and if you need any help give me a mail.
Cheers
Jamster
Cheers jamster
I totally agree, i'll be sitting down with my dad and going through every route possible to get this sorted, even if i have to chain myself to the directors of tvr car! Obviously not naked! But hopefully clear the air or find some positive answers to us owners. We deserve some respect for forking out money on there cars after all, instead of being running scared all the time.
Obviously i'll be keeping you updated on my progress.
Wish me luck.
I totally agree, i'll be sitting down with my dad and going through every route possible to get this sorted, even if i have to chain myself to the directors of tvr car! Obviously not naked! But hopefully clear the air or find some positive answers to us owners. We deserve some respect for forking out money on there cars after all, instead of being running scared all the time.
Obviously i'll be keeping you updated on my progress.
Wish me luck.
the prospect of forking out for a 5 year old engine is clearly unfair & unreasonable however..
dazzlars best chance of getting the result he wants has to be to give TVR every opportunity to put things right **before** wading in with trading standards / legals.
without a doubt my next call would be to the tvr engine shop. In my opinion introducing any legal or consumer action before doing this will not help.
dazzlars best chance of getting the result he wants has to be to give TVR every opportunity to put things right **before** wading in with trading standards / legals.
without a doubt my next call would be to the tvr engine shop. In my opinion introducing any legal or consumer action before doing this will not help.
and said:
the prospect of forking out for a 5 year old engine is clearly unfair & unreasonable however..
dazzlars best chance of getting the result he wants has to be to give TVR every opportunity to put things right **before** wading in with trading standards / legals.
without a doubt my next call would be to the tvr engine shop. In my opinion introducing any legal or consumer action before doing this will not help.
Seconded. Whenever I've heard about stories of cars been rejected or failed engines the end result has always been determined by the relationship the person involved or their dealer has with TVR. It seems they do not respond well the legal bullying. A rational conversation about the problem seems to work wonders yet wading in generally seems to get their back up.
Yup, of course youve got to go through the motions, explore all the avenues, make record all the letters and responses. I think we're all aware though that the chances of TVR rebuilding the engine or supplying a new one for free or for minimal cost are remote.
First stop has to be a letter to TVR head office at blackpool. Take the time to get this right an try to cover all bases in it as you'll no doubt end up in a an exchange of letters once a week for months which you dont want. Before you know it you'll be three months down the line.
Just had a thought dazzler, you could also get your warranty company involved, they would no doubt also not want to have to fork out any cash when it's major design issues that are causing failures. Dont do this until youve hit a brick wall with TVR though.
good luck.
PS remember also when BMW had an issue 3 years back with the ealry M3's pre 2001. They had some faulty part in them (cant remember what it was). Anyway BMW offered a full rebuild to every customer and YES they new who they all were becasue all the parts in every car are logged and date coded from each supplier.
Bet TVR havent got a clue which faulty finger followers are in what car!!!!!
First stop has to be a letter to TVR head office at blackpool. Take the time to get this right an try to cover all bases in it as you'll no doubt end up in a an exchange of letters once a week for months which you dont want. Before you know it you'll be three months down the line.
Just had a thought dazzler, you could also get your warranty company involved, they would no doubt also not want to have to fork out any cash when it's major design issues that are causing failures. Dont do this until youve hit a brick wall with TVR though.
good luck.
PS remember also when BMW had an issue 3 years back with the ealry M3's pre 2001. They had some faulty part in them (cant remember what it was). Anyway BMW offered a full rebuild to every customer and YES they new who they all were becasue all the parts in every car are logged and date coded from each supplier.
Bet TVR havent got a clue which faulty finger followers are in what car!!!!!
and said:
dazzlars best chance of getting the result he wants has to be to give TVR every opportunity to put things right **before** wading in with trading standards / legals.
....absolutely, but I think we were all pointing out that if this fails there are other avenues rather than having to give up & fork out yourself.
I had a problem with a car (non-TVR) years ago which couldn't get resolved by reasonable means. Trading Standards were very helpful and pursued the case on my behalf with a great result. Given the problems with the S6 engine I doubt proof of an underlying problem would be very difficult to substantiate.
Totally agree this is the last course of action - but a very effective one from past experience. Give TVR a reasonable chance to rectify it first - Good Luck Darren.
Buster can you share your previous experience or drop me a mail?
Cheers,
Jamster
I've had a couple of phone calls to trading standards, not with car issues though. As soon as they get involved both companies I was dealing with paid up immediatley, i couldnt believe the power they have just with a phone call and a simple letter saying they are looking to get involved!!
Cheers,
Jamster
I've had a couple of phone calls to trading standards, not with car issues though. As soon as they get involved both companies I was dealing with paid up immediatley, i couldnt believe the power they have just with a phone call and a simple letter saying they are looking to get involved!!
Don't want to go into too many specifics but after I purchased the car there were issues with the warranty (never submitted by the trader) and mechanical problems.
After trying to resolve amicably approached my local Trading Standards who took up the issue with the traders local Trading Standards office.
Certainly worked in my case, and would recommend to anyone else in a similar situation.
After trying to resolve amicably approached my local Trading Standards who took up the issue with the traders local Trading Standards office.
Certainly worked in my case, and would recommend to anyone else in a similar situation.
Buster4.2 said:Maybe I should have gone to them about the problems with the 4.2 when I bought it -
I had a problem with a car (non-TVR) years ago which couldn't get resolved by reasonable means. Trading Standards were very helpful and pursued the case on my behalf with a great result. Darren.
but then again, since the owner wound the company up and reopened same stock, address,
even name...with 'new' added, I was told I could not touch them.
fair enough the engines shouldn't need rebuilt so often but you guys are all being a bit naive. i mean, everybody knows TVRs break. if you want a car that doesn't break then buy a toyota. if you want a car that can hassle a diablo for top end and a 911 turbo the rest of the time, whilst all the time sounding like a thunderstorm dubbed onto a recording of heavy artillery; buy a TVR.
this is the second engine TVR have built themselves and quite honestly i think that is an amazing achievement. later engines don't need rebuilds near so often which i think goes to show that TVR ARE developing the engine and ARE listening to what their customers are telling them. I can see that owners of early cars maybe aren't too happy about running mobile test beds.
sure BMW sent out recalls and did free rebuilds but how big a company are BMW?? and how big are they compared to TVR???
yes, i'm sure anyone whose car's broken is livid but it happens. on the grand scale of things the engine in your car breaking isn't really that important is it?
this is the second engine TVR have built themselves and quite honestly i think that is an amazing achievement. later engines don't need rebuilds near so often which i think goes to show that TVR ARE developing the engine and ARE listening to what their customers are telling them. I can see that owners of early cars maybe aren't too happy about running mobile test beds.
sure BMW sent out recalls and did free rebuilds but how big a company are BMW?? and how big are they compared to TVR???
yes, i'm sure anyone whose car's broken is livid but it happens. on the grand scale of things the engine in your car breaking isn't really that important is it?
tuscan_thunder said:
yes, i'm sure anyone whose car's broken is livid but it happens. on the grand scale of things the engine in your car breaking isn't really that important is it?
TVR are now trying to compete with the big boys - 70k for a car is not cheap. Single car failures are not a massive deal to TVR (just the person facing a 10k bill with a car only worth 20k) but where a massive proportion of speed-6 engined cars fail TVR are going to lose potential future customers. Not only that, where reliability issues cause a really negative effect on resale value, even people convinced about the quality of the improved speed 6 will be put off as they don't want to lose a massive amount of money in depreciation.
TVR's are attractive because they're cheap for the performance offered. TVR owners all accept niggles.
However, when it comes to the point where it's cheaper to run a more reliable car offering the same performance (when considering 10k repair bills and hard depreciation) then TVR will be in trouble....
>> Edited by _DJ_ on Wednesday 7th April 15:44
tuscan_thunder said:
fair enough the engines shouldn't need rebuilt so often but you guys are all being a bit naive. i mean, everybody knows TVRs break. if you want a car that doesn't break then buy a toyota. if you want a car that can hassle a diablo for top end and a 911 turbo the rest of the time, whilst all the time sounding like a thunderstorm dubbed onto a recording of heavy artillery; buy a TVR.
this is the second engine TVR have built themselves and quite honestly i think that is an amazing achievement. later engines don't need rebuilds near so often which i think goes to show that TVR ARE developing the engine and ARE listening to what their customers are telling them. I can see that owners of early cars maybe aren't too happy about running mobile test beds.
sure BMW sent out recalls and did free rebuilds but how big a company are BMW?? and how big are they compared to TVR???
yes, i'm sure anyone whose car's broken is livid but it happens. on the grand scale of things the engine in your car breaking isn't really that important is it?
tuscan thunder, what do yo mean everybody knows TVR's break!! i can gurantee you a hugh number of people wouldnt have bought their cars if they knew thay had a 50% chance of the engine going bang!! As far as it not being important, are you mad! This is the second biggest purchase most people make in their life! If your house fell down would you be bothered?! get a grip!
jamster said:
From various other threads I would judge that more than 50% of SP6 engines have required a rebuild of some sort have covered less than 15K miles. This is a joke as we all know!
Jamster, there's not e-mail link on your profilel; can you either mail me or add one? Could do with dropping you an e-mail offline...
j_s_g said:
From various other threads I would judge that more than 50% of SP6 engines have required a rebuild of some sort have covered less than 15K miles. This is a joke as we all know!
Jamster, there's not e-mail link on your profilel; can you either mail me or add one? Could do with dropping you an e-mail offline...
jsg, there is one there, just checked.
jamie_mackay@agilent.com if you still cant see it.
Tuscan Thunder you are either deliberately being a troll or you have more money than you know what to do with and the irresponsibilty of not having earned it in the first place.
There is absolutely no way I would purchase any car where the engine had to be rebuilt inside 15k miles. Unless my name was Ron Dennis or Eddy Jordan,et al.
Clearly if you think a £10k rebuild is unimportant in the big scale of things, perhaps you would like to metaphorically shrug your shoulders and cough up 10 grand for Dazzler's rebuild?
There is absolutely no way I would purchase any car where the engine had to be rebuilt inside 15k miles. Unless my name was Ron Dennis or Eddy Jordan,et al.
Clearly if you think a £10k rebuild is unimportant in the big scale of things, perhaps you would like to metaphorically shrug your shoulders and cough up 10 grand for Dazzler's rebuild?
tuscan_thunder
yes, i'm sure anyone whose car's broken is livid but it happens. on the grand scale of things the engine in your car breaking isn't really that important is it?
Are you serious?? yes, if it happens to you, i think it IS that important. And then when the shock of the rebuild cost has sunk in, the timescale of the rebuild
& hassle of chasing people begins to hurt. A lot.
Then the realisation that TVR are using paying customers as guniea pigs sets in & it becomes VERY important.
Been there, done it.
Dazzler, what exactly are you getting for £10k? I would imagine this is the price if you bought every single engine component as an individual part.
There must be some salvageable parts??
Speak to Paul Giddings (head of engine build) - 01253 509050 - he will do everything he can to help.
Darren.
yes, i'm sure anyone whose car's broken is livid but it happens. on the grand scale of things the engine in your car breaking isn't really that important is it?
Are you serious?? yes, if it happens to you, i think it IS that important. And then when the shock of the rebuild cost has sunk in, the timescale of the rebuild
& hassle of chasing people begins to hurt. A lot.
Then the realisation that TVR are using paying customers as guniea pigs sets in & it becomes VERY important.
Been there, done it.
Dazzler, what exactly are you getting for £10k? I would imagine this is the price if you bought every single engine component as an individual part.
There must be some salvageable parts??
Speak to Paul Giddings (head of engine build) - 01253 509050 - he will do everything he can to help.
Darren.
yiw1393 said:
Clearly if you think a £10k rebuild is unimportant in the big scale of things, perhaps you would like to metaphorically shrug your shoulders and cough up 10 grand for Dazzler's rebuild?
At 21yrs old (and a mini driver) I don't think there's a high probability of that happening.
>> Edited by _DJ_ on Wednesday 7th April 15:43
tuscan_thunder said:
fair enough the engines shouldn't need rebuilt so often but you guys are all being a bit naive.
I see from your profile that you're really qualified to add to this discussion being neither a Tuscan nor even a TVR owner.
We all expect the niggles but forking out half the value of the car for a very premature engine rebuild would pi$$ me off.
>> Edited by Buster4.2 on Wednesday 7th April 15:55
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